Attention all those that hate our draft!

[AdamJT13]

Come now, let's have full disclosure here - He's also right on the cusp of the top 3rd in the Huddle Report's mock draft rankings both this year and on a 3 year average (40 should tie him for 16th, but they have him as 18th - with some tie breaker, I assume). Never said that he was better than Gosselin or anybody else, that's all manufactured by you - I never looked at his site until yesterday when someone was being mocked for using it.

If you look behind the rankings (I found 2 top mock guys that had at least 3 rounds of picks - on free websites ..Abromowitz @2 and McCrystal @10) the top guys don't seem to be all that different than say a top second quartile guy in terms of placing a player in the proper round. The 2 top guys had on an average correctly placed players in rounds 51% of the time, while Watler had achieved 47%, not a meaningful difference.

Once more, Abromowitz at #2 had a similar 50% reach factor that you found so objectionable coming from Walter for our picks looking at his 7 round mock. In the end, I wonder if the collective scouting departments (the good and the bad) are better than the best mock drafter in terms of predicting actual performance. There is a high correlation between actual draft order and ultimate success in the NFL, at least at the top levels, I wonder if there have been studies of certain mock draft's value as a predictor of future performance?

I have no idea what you're trying to say. (And there's a difference between mock drafts and player rankings.)

Did you, or did you not, say we had several reaches based on what you read at BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1?

 

[Doomsay]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. (And there's a difference between mock drafts and player rankings.)

Did you, or did you not, say we had several reaches based on what you read at BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1?

Don't be obtuse, it's pretty clear, your huddle rankings place this walter guy at or near the top 3rd in terms of mock draft, you omitted that from your comment. There is significant overlap between the top 100 and mock draft groups, don't think that the science is very different.

Someone else used Walters predicted rounds at the beginning of this thread to indicate reaches and I looked at these stats in relationship to how Walter did this year against two top ten huddle mockers as well as how his predicted round cedings correlated with two of the best managed NFL teams. They were perfectly reasonable as far as placing players in rounds, which is what this was about in the first place before it became a "he's not Gosselin thread". You imply that Walter is so incredibly innept, yet you won't recognize that a #2 ranked Huddle man yielded the same 50% reach factor.

 

[malone1970]

The only thing that suprised me is this QB from Arizona St. Rudy Carpenter first of all never heard of the guy and if he was really good then Arizona St. would have been ranked in the top 25. But to me I think that we should have got Chase Daniels instead now he was signed by the Deadskins Wow go figure that. But other than that the rest of the draft was good don't have a problem with it.

 

[AdamJT13]

Don't be obtuse, it's pretty clear, your huddle rankings place this walter guy at or near the top 3rd in terms of mock draft, you omitted that from your comment. There is significant overlap between the top 100 and mock draft groups, don't think that the science is very different.

There's a big difference between knowing the top 32 players in the draft and knowing Nos. 33 to 256 and where they rank.

Someone else used Walters predicted rounds at the beginning of this thread to indicate reaches and I looked at these stats in relationship to how Walter did this year against two top ten huddle mockers as well as how his predicted round cedings correlated with two of the best managed NFL teams. They were perfectly reasonable as far as placing players in rounds, which is what this was about in the first place before it became a "he's not Gosselin thread". You imply that Walter is so incredibly innept, yet you won't recognize that a #2 ranked Huddle man yielded the same 50% reach factor.

Again, I think I need a translator to figure out what you're trying to say.

How difficult is it to understand that Walter whiffed on his top 100 this year? So even if he did OK with his first-round mock draft, that's completely irrelevant when it comes to judging the players we drafted. We didn't even draft until No. 69 overall — right about where the people with accurate top 100s started getting a lot more "hits" than people like Walter Cherepinsky.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I'm amazed that folks take everything these draft websites say as gospel.

One mans reach is another mans value pick.

 

[Bach]

In fact there are plenty of examples in this very thread of people who don't like the Johnson pick you suggested. It's not rocket science, bro, there is no such thing as a draft that everyone would be completely happy with.

I guarantee you most that are no dissing Johnson now would be kissing his jock if we had drafted him. That's because some of these people defend everything the team does because the team does it.

And as for last years draft, there were nitpicking criticisms but overall the vast majority of fans and experts thought it was a good solid draft. Also the primary criticism about Bennett wasn't so much in regards to him as a player but the rationale behind trading a former 2nd round TE for a 4th round pick and then turning around and drafting another TE in the 2nd round.

But the bottomline is that last year most everyone felt the draft was anywhere from good to great. This year it's average at best to poor, except for the view from the homers which would give anything the team does a passing grade.

 

[Doomsday101]

I guarantee you most that are no dissing Johnson now would be kissing his jock if we had drafted him. That's because some of these people defend everything the team does because the team does it.

And as for last years draft, there were nitpicking criticisms but overall the vast majority of fans and experts thought it was a good solid draft. Also the primary criticism about Bennett wasn't so much in regards to him as a player but the rationale behind trading a former 2nd round TE for a 4th round pick and then turning around and drafting another TE in the 2nd round.

But the bottomline is that last year most everyone felt the draft was anywhere from good to great. This year it's average at best to poor, except for the view from the homers which would give anything the team does a passing grade.

Last year Dallas had 2 1st rd picks of course the grade is going to be much better. 1st rd is where many feel the impact players will come from

 

[SMCowboy]

I guarantee you most that are no dissing Johnson now would be kissing his jock if we had drafted him. That's because some of these people defend everything the team does because the team does it.

And as for last years draft, there were nitpicking criticisms but overall the vast majority of fans and experts thought it was a good solid draft. Also the primary criticism about Bennett wasn't so much in regards to him as a player but the rationale behind trading a former 2nd round TE for a 4th round pick and then turning around and drafting another TE in the 2nd round.

But the bottomline is that last year most everyone felt the draft was anywhere from good to great. This year it's average at best to poor, except for the view from the homers which would give anything the team does a passing grade.

Actually alot of people felt that Bennett was a reach in the second round until people showed that Gooses board said he was not, then they went to not wanting to draft another TE in the second round....

 

[SMCowboy]

Come now, let's have full disclosure here - He's also right on the cusp of the top 3rd in the Huddle Report's mock draft rankings both this year and on a 3 year average (40 should tie him for 16th, but they have him as 18th - with some tie breaker, I assume). Never said that he was better than Gosselin or anybody else, that's all manufactured by you - I never looked at his site until yesterday when someone was being mocked for using it.

If you look behind the rankings (I found 2 top mock guys that had at least 3 rounds of picks - on free websites ..Abromowitz @2 and McCrystal @10) the top guys don't seem to be all that different than say a top second quartile guy in terms of placing a player in the proper round. The 2 top guys had on an average correctly placed players in rounds 51% of the time, while Watler had achieved 47%, not a meaningful difference.

Once more, Abromowitz at #2 had a similar 50% reach factor that you found so objectionable coming from Walter for our picks looking at his 7 round mock. In the end, I wonder if the collective scouting departments (the good and the bad) are better than the best mock drafter in terms of predicting actual performance. There is a high correlation between actual draft order and ultimate success in the NFL, at least at the top levels, I wonder if there have been studies of certain mock draft's value as a predictor of future performance?

I am not doubting that Walters Football is any less reliable than any other online mock draft. What I am saying is that it is beyond STUPID to use any online mock draft to determine if a player is a a "reach" or not, when they are only right half of the time at best..... With Walters this time, he was actually WRONG more often than he was right. And if you take out the first round (which anyone with half a brain can get 70+ percent of the picks right), these sites are LUCKY to get one out of every 3 picks right. Yet we use them determine if a guy was a "reach" or not....

In the real world, if you are only right 1/3 of the time, you are a laughing joke. Yet, alot of people use mock drafts which are only right 1/3 of the time as gospel truth.....

 

[Royal Laegotti]

Good luck with this thread David. The haters usually don't know why they hate ... they just do.

Yeah, I suppose it has NOTHING to do with Jethro's history of drafting as GM. Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, Quinthy Carter, Dwayne Goodrich, Solomon Page and Anthony Spencer anybody? But I don't know. I just hate because I do.

 

[Bach]

Yeah, I suppose it has NOTHING to do with Jethro's history of drafting as GM. Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, Quinthy Carter, Dwayne Goodrich, Solomon Page and Anthony Spencer anybody? But I don't know. I just hate because I do.

How dare you interject logic into the discussion

 

[Doomsday101]

Yeah, I suppose it has NOTHING to do with Jethro's history of drafting as GM. Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, Quinthy Carter, Dwayne Goodrich, Solomon Page and Anthony Spencer anybody? But I don't know. I just hate because I do.

Dallas has changed the way we work the draft and it has shown in some quality picks over the last few season. I do find it funny you throw Spencer in the mix what is the deal if a pick works out then that was ireland or BP and if the pick does not live up to the high expectation well that was all Jerry Jones. If I did not know better I would think some just like to scape goat Jones for anything wrong and give credit to others when things go right. :laugh2:

 

[Royal Laegotti]

How dare you interject logic into the discussion

I guess they wanted us to ignore the past 15 or so drafts, well excluding the Parcells years. But we're just mindless haters with no justification behind it. Some fans have a real short memory.

 

[Alexander]

Yeah, I suppose it has NOTHING to do with Jethro's history of drafting as GM. Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, Quinthy Carter, Dwayne Goodrich, Solomon Page and Anthony Spencer anybody? But I don't know. I just hate because I do.

It is going to take a while for the Lacewell sting to wear off and I can full appreciate the lasting sentiments.

This one could sting as bad if Ciskowski is wrong. And if he is, he should take the fall for it. To me, this is hardly a Jerry Jones going crazy draft. It is clear that Jones took a step backwards and trusted the board.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

Dallas has changed the way we work the draft and it has shown in some quality picks over the last few season. I do find it funny you throw Spencer in the mix what is the deal if a pick works out then that was ireland or BP and if the pick does not live up to the high expectation well that was all Jerry Jones. If I did not know better I would think some just like to scape goat Jones for anything wrong and give credit to others when things go right. :laugh2:

BP wasn't here to draft Spencer. If Felix works out then, yes, I would have to be stuck with giving Jethro credit for picking him. For ONCE he hit on a pick. Picking Felix was a no brainer though, but nothing is a no brainer with Jerry so I have to give Jerry credit for surpressing whatever urge he has to screw up.

 

[Doomsday101]

BP wasn't here to draft Spencer. If Felix works out then, yes, I would have to be stuck with giving Jethro credit for picking him. For ONCE he hit on a pick. Picking Felix was a no brainer though, but nothing is a no brainer with Jerry so I have to give Jerry credit for surpressing whatever urge he has to screw up.

Stuck with giving him credit, wow what a guy.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

Stuck with giving him credit, wow what a guy.

That's better than some would give.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's better than some would give.

I'll grant you that. :laugh2:

 

[SMCowboy]

I guess they wanted us to ignore the past 15 or so drafts, well excluding the Parcells years. But we're just mindless haters with no justification behind it. Some fans have a real short memory.

You mean the great success that:
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
Al Johnson
Julius Jones
Jacob Rogers
Stephen Peterman
Bruce Thornton
Sean Ryan
Nathan Jones

The only hits in Bill Parcells great drafts were: Terence Newman, Jason Witten, Demarcus Ware, Bradie James, Marion Barber, and Chris Canty. But, it was Jerry Jones and Stephen Jones that forced Parcells hands on Terence Newman, and Demarcus Ware (as Parcells wanted Kevin Williams instead) and Parcells wanted to take Marcus Spears over Demarcus Ware with the 11th pick in 2005. And we can also thank luck for Parcells getting us Jason Witten, as it was Parcells that felt that we needed to draft Al Johnson in the second round over Jason Witten, because we needed a center.....

 

[Royal Laegotti]

You mean the great success that:
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
Al Johnson
Julius Jones
Jacob Rogers
Stephen Peterman
Bruce Thornton
Sean Ryan
Nathan Jones

The only hits in Bill Parcells great drafts were: Terence Newman, Jason Witten, Demarcus Ware, Bradie James, Marion Barber, and Chris Canty. But, it was Jerry Jones and Stephen Jones that forced Parcells hands on Terence Newman, and Demarcus Ware (as Parcells wanted Kevin Williams instead) and Parcells wanted to take Marcus Spears over Demarcus Ware with the 11th pick in 2005. And we can also thank luck for Parcells getting us Jason Witten, as it was Parcells that felt that we needed to draft Al Johnson in the second round over Jason Witten, because we needed a center.....

Sooooo, where is all this "luck" when Jethro doesn't have a legit coach on hand to work the draft. Reading what you say sounds as if Jethro overcame Bill in these drafts. I guess you read all these "facts" from the Jethro PR spin manual. Bill's drafting and coaching is the only reason this team has even had a chance the last few years.