Attention all those that hate our draft!

[Shotgun Dave]

Feel free to gripe, but give reasons why, any idiot can gripe. But if you are going to gripe atleast explain what we could have done different. Otherwise, you sound like a broken record who doesn't know anything.....

I'm with you and, in general, I think one should try to back up his opinions. I don't know anyone on here who is a professional scout so to me it's a slippery slope when people start demanding everyone's credentials in order to complain about what they feel was a "less than stellar" draft. No one owes anyone a full, detailed explanation. Nice to have it? Sure, but no one is OWED it.

My whole gripe is that we almost certainly will not keep 12 (13? I lost track) draft picks. If that's the case, why keep dropping back to pick up more picks THIS year instead of higher picks NEXT year. Also, it would have been nice to take a few of the more highly rated (although not by me, the non-expert) players at clear positions of need...S and OL specifically, and maybe CB as well.

That's my position. Do I like some of the picks? Sure. I've even come to understand and like the Buehler pick. But we won't keep 12-13 draft picks - so why draft them?

Hopefully I've explained my position sensibly enough. Again, no disrespect intended to dbair or anyone else on here. We're all still fans of the same team, after all.

 

[SMCowboy]

I'm with you and, in general, I think one should try to back up his opinions. I don't know anyone on here who is a professional scout so to me it's a slippery slope when people start demanding everyone's credentials in order to complain about what they feel was a "less than stellar" draft. No one owes anyone a full, detailed explanation. Nice to have it? Sure, but no one is OWED it.

My whole gripe is that we almost certainly will not keep 12 (13? I lost track) draft picks. If that's the case, why keep dropping back to pick up more picks THIS year instead of higher picks NEXT year. Also, it would have been nice to take a few of the more highly rated (although not by me, the non-expert) players at clear positions of need...S and OL specifically, and maybe CB as well.

That's my position. Do I like some of the picks? Sure. I've even come to understand and like the Buehler pick. But we won't keep 12-13 draft picks - so why draft them?

Hopefully I've explained my position sensibly enough. Again, no disrespect intended to dbair or anyone else on here. We're all still fans of the same team, after all.

I would argue that OLB and ILB are bigger needs that Saftey...

 

[BAT]

I'm with you and, in general, I think one should try to back up his opinions. I don't know anyone on here who is a professional scout so to me it's a slippery slope when people start demanding everyone's credentials in order to complain about what they feel was a "less than stellar" draft. No one owes anyone a full, detailed explanation. Nice to have it? Sure, but no one is OWED it.

My whole gripe is that we almost certainly will not keep 12 (13? I lost track) draft picks. If that's the case, why keep dropping back to pick up more picks THIS year instead of higher picks NEXT year. Also, it would have been nice to take a few of the more highly rated (although not by me, the non-expert) players at clear positions of need...S and OL specifically, and maybe CB as well.

That's my position. Do I like some of the picks? Sure. I've even come to understand and like the Buehler pick. But we won't keep 12-13 draft picks - so why draft them?

Hopefully I've explained my position sensibly enough. Again, no disrespect intended to dbair or anyone else on here. We're all still fans of the same team, after all.

I can relate to your frustration on this, but Stephen Jones actually let us know before the draft that not only was this doable (drafting 11 players) but it was something that they were aiming for. IMO those dozen players drafted are going to get every opportunity to stick, the Jones' are sending a message PLUS in cost cutting mode.


No more free lunches, or slacking, at Valley Ranch, at least not for the bottom 20 on the roster. I actually love that message. I hope it trickles UP.

 

[Doomsay]

I just checked on that site, and they ask "How does Jason Williams fit into a 3-4?" Are you kidding me? They don't even know that?

They also give us an F for Stephen McGee because he "struggled in Mike Sherman's pro-style offense at A&M." You mean the offense he was in part of one year when he was injured?

Then they ask where Stephen Hodge plays.

No, I don't think Walter football knows jack. But, if you think they can rate players better than the actual pro scouts Gosselin talks to -- and they thought McGee was one of our better picks -- knock yourself out.

You miss the point, he has shown accuracy in predicting what rounds players will go in - teams like Pittsburgh and NE for the most part, picked players in the rounds predicted by his site, we deviated measurable to the reach side. Who knows what their/his sources are, but they've been proven out in a general per-round accuracy.

On average, I'm sure that scouts think that we have reached as well.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

I can relate to your frustration on this, but Stephen Jones actually let us know before the draft that not only was this doable (drafting 11 players) but it was something that they were aiming for. IMO those dozen players drafted are going to get every opportunity to stick, the Jones' are sending a message PLUS in cost cutting mode.


No more free lunches, or slacking, at Valley Ranch, at least not for the bottom 20 on the roster. I actually love that message. I hope it trickles UP.

I didn't know that. Interesting.

Still, I might consider affecting the same result by cutting Barbie. When a first rounder has sucked as badly and as consistently as he has, this seems overdue.

Just a thought.

 

[BAT]

I didn't know that. Interesting.

Still, I might consider affecting the same result by cutting Barbie. When a first rounder has sucked as badly and as consistently as he has, this seems overdue.

Just a thought.

I don't think that is as far off as you might think, if he gets beaten out by a rook in TC, I think he's gone for sure. He might not even need to be blown out by Williams, if it is even close, then he is gone IMO.


And the Cowboys sent a pretty big message by cutting Owens, so they have been consistent on this (wanting team first guys) at least.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

I don't think that is as far off as you might think, if he gets beaten out by a rook in TC, I think he's gone for sure. He might not even need to be blown out by Williams, if it is even close, then he is gone IMO.


And the Cowboys sent a pretty big message by cutting Owens, so they have been consistent on this (wanting team first guys) at least.

GOOD! In my opinion, that's an underestaimted part of what builds winning teams.

 

[dcfanatic]

Instead of moving from thread to thread and telling us how the team screwed up, made dumb picks, didnt do this, Jones is an idiot, it was like 1995, team got worse etc etc.

Kindly take some time and tell us what YOU would have done differently. Please spare us the vague "there were better people available" and the "I would have moved up"...Explain it. Tell us who'd you have picked instead of the guys we did, or if you were going to move up tell us for who, with who and what we'd have given up to accomplish that.

This should be interesting.

69 - Rashard Johnson - FS - Alabama
75 - MIke Thomas - WR/PR - Arizona
101 - Dorell Scott - DT/NT - Clemson

Free Safety. Punt Returner. Nose Tackle.

The rest you could go for the special teams guys all you want.

 

[dcfanatic]

I can relate to your frustration on this, but Stephen Jones actually let us know before the draft that not only was this doable (drafting 11 players) but it was something that they were aiming for. IMO those dozen players drafted are going to get every opportunity to stick, the Jones' are sending a message PLUS in cost cutting mode.


No more free lunches, or slacking, at Valley Ranch, at least not for the bottom 20 on the roster. I actually love that message. I hope it trickles UP.

No one wanted to trade with them for the late round picks.

Because just like everyone wants to say this wasn't a great draft for talent it also means the talent wasn't that great in the late rounds either.

I will at the most they wanted to come out with was 10 at the most.

I will bet the could not even package picks this year for picks next season.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

No one wanted to trade with them for the late round picks.

Because just like everyone wants to say this wasn't a great draft for talent it also means the talent wasn't that great in the late rounds either.

I will at the most they wanted to come out with was 10 at the most.

I will bet the could not even package picks this year for picks next season.

I disagree I only thing this draft was weak at RB and DB. The only reason for that is because they didn't put up the combine numbers people put up before that. Which is what they were expecting. I pretty sure if some of the big name RB ran 4.3 or 4.4 40's a the combine their wouldn't be a lack of talent. People keep saying there's a lack of talent but outside of RB and DB which weren't weak IMO it's just they didn't put the numbers in the combine that were expected. So outside of RB and DB where was the lack of talent in this daft? I want to hear this....

 

[Sitting Bull]

Great thread idea. I specifically would've:

Packaged some of our day two picks to move up a few spots and grab Max Unger. Many had him rated as a first rounder, so it's not like he was a good bet to slip all the way to #51. I've read that, in addition to Unger, a couple to several of the players Dallas coveted were selected right before their pick. Seemed like a no-brainer to proactively grab the last guy you like in that slot. The War Room looked shocked and for the life of me I can't understand why.

Given what appeared to have happened to them on day one, it is absolutely criminal that we did not package some picks to move up to grab Jarron Gilbert, another player I've read that we wanted. Obviously, the Lions were dealing the first pick in Day 2. We had the ammo to get value for another falling player in Gilbert and still grab Jason Willams in the third.

Kicker pick is stupid. Period. I would've picked anyone else with this pick.

Would've taken my pet cat Sammie Stroughter and his legitimate punt return skills over this OU WR in the seventh.

I like some of the players we drafted and hope for the best. I can't shake the feeling that we got punked multiple times in this draft for being too conservative. I think "purposely" adding 11 draft picks to this team is ridiculous and remain skeptical of our supposed strategy.

 

[dbair1967]

Dbair,

No disrespect to you or your 20,000+ posts - and I mean that sincerely - but no one owes you the courtesy of posting in a manner that meets your standards. If people want to gripe, they get to gripe.

Mods, kindly let me know if I've missed some protocol. Otherwise, I'm still less than thrilled about our draft and will post accordingly.

You missed the point of the thread entirely then.

Nobody owes me any explanation at all. I made the thread because instead of people going from thread to thread crapping on what we did in the draft or on people who were in support of what we did, why not post what THEY THOUGHT we should of done.

You dont like the draft, fine. Totally your opinion. You werent one of the people I directed this at anyway. It was directed at the habitual complainers who never say anything positive no matter what, but rarely have any ideas of their own.

 

[CF74]

Overall I am very happy with this draft. The only thing I would have done differently is O-line. I wanted a C/G (Maybe Eric Woods) to replace Proctor and I wanted an OT to develop. Not very familiar with to many names and positions of rank so I won't pretend.

I don't watch enough college ball to give a solid opinion on the matter but I do know my team and what areas concern me. O-line production or the lack thereof was our biggest downfall next to injuries this past season and drafting a tackle to play guard left me disappointed in that respect.

We can have a solid defense but if we continue to lose the time of possession battle because the o-line fails then eventually our defense will get winded and breakdown as they did last season. Flo needs to be replaced sooner than later.

 

[wileedog]

Great thread idea. I specifically would've:

Packaged some of our day two picks to move up a few spots and grab Max Unger. Many had him rated as a first rounder, so it's not like he was a good bet to slip all the way to #51. I've read that, in addition to Unger, a couple to several of the players Dallas coveted were selected right before their pick. Seemed like a no-brainer to proactively grab the last guy you like in that slot. The War Room looked shocked and for the life of me I can't understand why.

Given what appeared to have happened to them on day one, it is absolutely criminal that we did not package some picks to move up to grab Jarron Gilbert, another player I've read that we wanted. Obviously, the Lions were dealing the first pick in Day 2. We had the ammo to get value for another falling player in Gilbert and still grab Jason Willams in the third.

Kicker pick is stupid. Period. I would've picked anyone else with this pick.

Would've taken my pet cat Sammie Stroughter and his legitimate punt return skills over this OU WR in the seventh.

I like some of the players we drafted and hope for the best. I can't shake the feeling that we got punked multiple times in this draft for being too conservative. I think "purposely" adding 11 draft picks to this team is ridiculous and remain skeptical of our supposed strategy.

This.

Summed it up better than I could.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

You missed the point of the thread entirely then.

Nobody owes me any explanation at all. I made the thread because instead of people going from thread to thread crapping on what we did in the draft or on people who were in support of what we did, why not post what THEY THOUGHT we should of done.

You dont like the draft, fine. Totally your opinion. You werent one of the people I directed this at anyway. It was directed at the habitual complainers who never say anything positive no matter what, but rarely have any ideas of their own.

Perhaps I did. And I get that some people gripe all the time with nothing to back it up - it frustrates me at times as well. I agree, however, that Moore and Loadholt would have been solid picks. I'll be curious to see if Loadholt doesn't spend 7 - 8 years at LT. If not, I'll remember it next time I want to gripe. If so, I'll be that obnoxious guy saying "I told you so".

 

[SMCowboy]

I didn't know that. Interesting.

Still, I might consider affecting the same result by cutting Barbie. When a first rounder has sucked as badly and as consistently as he has, this seems overdue.

Just a thought.

I would actually say that I could easily find a chance for 12 guys to make this team. There are 8 players off the top of my head that we lost that we did not replace yet:
Brooks Bolinger
Anthony Henry
Keith Davis
Kevin Burnett
Tony Curtis
Joe Berger
Pacman Jones
Terrell Owens

That is not counting guys like:
Isiah Stanback
Bobbie Carpenter
Alan Ball
Courtney Brown
Justin Rogers
Corey Procter
Pat McQuisten
Doug Free
Tra Battle

who have either not done anything, or that most fans have been hoping to run out of town for a long time.

 

[SMCowboy]

69 - Rashard Johnson - FS - Alabama
75 - MIke Thomas - WR/PR - Arizona
101 - Dorell Scott - DT/NT - Clemson

Free Safety. Punt Returner. Nose Tackle.

The rest you could go for the special teams guys all you want.

Sorry, I feel that ILB is a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger need that Saftey. At ILB, we were one injury to a 34 year old Keith Brooking away from Bobbie Carpenter from being our starting ILB. If that isn't scary, I don't know what is.

And at OLB, we are one injury away from Justin Rogers either being forced into action, or the other two OLB's being forced to play 100% of the snaps.

While Saftey is not exactly stacked, we have two good starting safety's in Hamlin and Sensabaugh. And while he is far from great, a decent backup in Patrick Watkins, as well as the potential of Courtney Brown.

Also, I don't consider NT a need, because several members of the staff supposedly like Junior Siavii better than Tank Johnson, and actually wanted to dump Tank Johnson middle of the season for Siavii.....

 

[Bach]

Bach, if these sites were actually worth ANYTHING at all, then please explain to me how atleast one very popular one: NFLdraftscout.com could be so far off on these players, and this is just a small samplesize I could find VERY quickly:

Zack Potter - Rank 186 (UDFA)
Brian Hoyer - Rank 187 (UDFA)
Cornelius Lewis - Rank 185 (UDFA)
Quan Cosby - Rank 226 (UDFA)
Nathan Brown - Rank 216 (UDFA)
Jason Watkins - Rank 180 (UDFA)
Mitch King - Rank 148 (UDFA)
Kevin Ogletree - Rank 124 (UDFA)
Derek Walker - Rank 218 (UDFA)
Duke Robinson - Rank 57 (163)
James Casey - Rank 61 (152)

Here is how, these guys are cracks, who talk to noone. And most of the guys that write these sites do so, because they were not good enough to keep a job working for NFL teams....

Yet we fans take what they have as gospel for some reason.....

You listed one site. What is that supposed to prove?

I'm not talking about just one site, or only draft sites, for that matter. No matter how you spin it, we had a subpar draft, unless everyone is wrong except those in Valley Ranch. I know we all want to believe we had a great draft but on paper right now that isn't the case.

 

[Bach]

I hated Johnson in this draft, 1st rd talent, 10 cent effort. The guy is never going to be a bigtime player because he wont work at it and doesnt go hard enough every play. I liked Caldwell and might have even preferred him to Brewster, although Brewster has the ability to be alot more physical and can play T and G, whereas Caldwell is a C/G (not T as you typed). I liked Tate but not in the 3rd rd, and I suspect had the Pats not had so many day one picks they wouldnt have chose him in the 3rd either. Chip Vaughn really looks the part, but he's never been very good in coverage. Sidbury and Freeman were nowhere near as productive as the guys we picked at LB. Sidbury had slightly better timed speed, but less production against lesser comp than the guys we picked in the 4th. I like the CB's we drafted better than Francies too.

I was thinking they might take Francois in the 7th, but am ok that they didnt. Another guy that looks like tarzan and other than one or two games, has always played like jane. He should be better than he is.

:laugh2:

Good stuff dude. I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune though if these were the guys we had taken though. You'd be gushing.

If you were as "objective" with the players we did actually select, you'd pick them apart much worse - but being a blind homer I understand where you're coming from.

 

[RainMan]

I don't know enough about a pool of 300 or so college players to know who the Dallas Cowboys should or should not take. All I can base my opinions on are the limited times I watched any of these guys play and/or what is said by analysts or other fans.

So admittedly, I'm uneasy about this draft because of what others are saying. Hopefully, all the media analysts are off base and this draft is a home run of epic proportions. But it sure is difficult to find anyone outside of Cowboys fans who are in love with our draft. Again, hopefully that will change down the road.

But I will say this. Jerry's comments behind the philosophy of this draft worry me. I don't believe you draft for need or special teams. It seems like several of our picks were specifically because Player X can perform at a high level on special teams. My philosophy -- which could be wrong, but it seems like it works around the league -- is that you draft good players and let the athlete toil on the special teams unit until he's ready to emerge as a major player on either side of the ball.

My specific concern with this draft? It's not with any specific choice. My fear is that, as a whole, the vast majority of the players drafted won't show the talent to rise above the special teams ranks. Where as, in reality, we need Williams, Brewster, Brandon Williams and Butler to be major, major players -- even if it's as situational defensive guys -- over the next five years.