*** SPOILERS *** Avengers Endgame Discussions

[Runwildboys]

Here is a good Marvel.com article featuring seven all-female teams (click on link at GREAT peril @Runwildboys !!! )

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/seven-of-the-best-all-woman-teams-in-the-marvel-universe

Not sure how viable any of these already precedented and/or established comic book teams would be for integrating into the MCU but we know Disney/Marvel plan all their film phases well in-advance.

I think the MCU Avengers has set the method of interconnecting characters for a series of group team movies. First, they showcased original comic book Avengers team members in their own movies, which were Iron Man, Thor and Hulk. Black Widow and Hawkeye were not original team members but were supporting characters in MCU movies leading up to the first team movie and were meshed in with the aforementioned characters. Captain America was an atypical source to include with the team, namely not an original comic book team member but was given his own series of movies since he has always symbolized the best leader of the team in print.

Exiting Phase Three and entering Phase Four, Disney/Marvel has already created potential source characters--Earth based or Earth origin and currently living choices--options for an all-female team:

• Scarlet Witch
• Valkyrie
• Okoye
• Captain Marvel
• Rescue
• The Wasp

Here are a few of my thoughts:

A - I do not think Disney/Marvel will continue strong ties going as far back as Phase One, so I do not think of Rescue/Gwyneth Paltrow as a strong consideration. Paltrow is likely ending her run anyway if it has not already been announced.

B - A potential group would likely be as singularly diverse as the original group team's concept. So I think Shuri would be a "copy" Wakanda character link to Okoye's and would not make the cut.

C - The original group team had a good mixture of six members. Continuing a customary numbering of six would require the introduction of at least one new female character to the big screen to join the roster. Upcoming MCU films include Spider-Man: Far From Home, Black Widow, The Eternals, Black Panther 2, Doctor Strange 2, Shang-Chi and Guardians of the Galaxy 3.

I think it is safe saying scratch Natasha returning to a group team franchise. The strongest female character in Spider-Man is Mary Jane Watson, so she would not be an option. There could be an embedded strong female S.H.I.E.L.D. tie-in (Agent Sharon Carter/Emily VanCamp perhaps?) but an agent main character has already been done before. BP2 character source(s) are already established. I doubt DS2 will supply a strong female option, especially with The Ancient One being out of commission. GOTG3 is almost exclusively off-Earth based and I doubt any more female hero characters will be introduced in that franchise soon.

That leaves (in the upcoming Phase Four) to source options in The Eternals and Shang-Chi. I am not really knowledgeable about Shang-Chi to comment about a female hero possibility. On the other hand, The Eternals could be an interesting source for another member. The Earth Eternal Sersi has even been an Avenger in the comics. It would be a stretch but not out of the question depending on how that movie franchise storyline will play out, given that it might originate in the ancient past.

D - I think A-Force is a possibility but I also believe Disney/Marvel is flexible enough to consider banding characters together under a different banner. Such a move would also distance itself from the pre-Endgame association with the Avengers.

Personally, my wish would be for a certain group of mutants could be possible source material but it seems that possibility would not even present itself in the near future.

What if Black Cat makes an appearance in Spiderman? Too close to Catwoman or Black Panther?

 

[DallasEast]

What if Black Cat make an appearance in Spiderman? Too close to Catwoman or Black Panther?

The comic book nerd in me takes great offense to you mentioning Catwoman in a Marvel related discussion. I doubt there would not be a strong duplicate associative perception made between Black Cat and Black Panther to matter. They are totally different characters in abilities, history, environments, etc. I would question why Marvel/Disney would introduce Black Cat into their Spider-Man franchise. There is a print connection between him and her but not particularly strong enough to throw her into the mix in my opinion. Spider-Man is more of a lone fighter character usually battling without a supporting teammate in his titles.

 

[Stash]

I've only spoken to one female about it, and she rolled her eyes and said something to the effect of, "It was so in your face that it had the opposite effect of what was intended." I don't remember her exact words, but she was almost embarrassed by the scene.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against strong women. I loved Captain Marvel. That whole scene just seemed incongruous to the film, and forced, as if the writers asked their 12 year old daughters what should happen next.

It was clearly forced. That's why it stood out and that's why it's been the topic of discussion. And anything that is clearly forced takes some people out of their enjoyment of the film.

My issue has nothing to do with being anti-women or feeling treated. It has everything to do with forced agendas. I know exactly why Disney is doing this, and it's not out of any sense of empowerment or nobility, it's simply because they want everybody's money. And that's exactly why they're now moving toward a forced diversity agenda. To make sure they can appeal to everybody and get everybody's money.

If anyone has any doubts, start by looking at the Disney princesses. And then their acquisitions of the big "male properties" in Star Wars and Marvel. It's not hard to see if one looks.

 

[Stash]

I have not yet spoken with a female viewer who had an issue with the scene but my survey size has been limited to only three so far admittedly. As time passes, I am becoming more convinced the scene also served as a test for reactions to a possible group female team dominated cast film down the line--perhaps some version of A-Force or another heroine team.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That's cool and all, but the scene still seemed out of place.

I don't disagree with that.

But the scene didn't bother me.

 

[Runwildboys]

I don't disagree with that.

But the scene didn't bother me.

It only bothered me insomuch that it distracted me from the battle, and took me out of the action for a moment.

 

[Stash]

It only bothered me insomuch that it distracted me from the battle, and took me out of the action for a moment.

Same here. That was my level of "bother". I just saw the obvious statement injected into that moment for what it was.

 

[DallasEast]

Don't hold your breath.

True. The odds are against the idea. However, the same had been said of projects like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I am grateful of the opportunity to see them happened during my lifetime. Who knows when some large scale project like an all-female super hero movie would get final approval by overly cautious,male-dominated Hollywood studio heads? It is understandable the word 'never' is completely applicable for someone my age in this case, lol.

 

[Stash]

True. The odds are against the idea. However, the same had been said of projects like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I am grateful of the opportunity to see them happened during my lifetime. Who knows when some large scale project like an all-female super hero movie would get final approval by overly cautious,male-dominated Hollywood studio heads? It is understandable the word 'never' is completely applicable for someone my age in this case, lol.

Again, it just feels forced. Why can't we simply have teams that are a collection of both men and women at this point? Why do we need "all" of either? How about a world where gender doesn't matter either way?

Forcing anything is going backwards, not forwards.

 

[Runwildboys]

Again, it just feels forced. Why can't we simply have teams that are a collection of both men and women at this point? Why do we need "all" of either? How about a world where gender doesn't matter either way?

Forcing anything is going backwards, not forwards.

Exactly. They could've just added a couple more women to the Avengers, or at this point, mix n' match whomever.

 

[DallasEast]

Again, it just feels forced. Why can't we simply have teams that are a collection of both men and women at this point? Why do we need "all" of either? How about a world where gender doesn't matter either way?

Forcing anything is going backwards, not forwards.

I understand why some of the audience and fans of the genre see it as forced, so I completely comprehend why and how much opposition such a movie would face. However, I myself disagree that it is forced and see it as progressive instead.

The comic book adaptation genre may (or may not) be the next territory for films featuring all-female main casts. Comedies are the most recent genre that has followed the modern trend with examples like Bridesmaids, etc.

This discussion tangent should account for the fact all of these movies are based on material derived from comic books. Every MCU title, without exception, is based on an actual comic book title. It is unlikely but a comic book title, like A-Force, being adapted into a movie(s), would not be source material exception for Marvel/Disney and the MCU. It would simply be a movie featuring male actors in notably less supportive roles than those that had preceded it.

 

[Stash]

I understand why some of the audience and fans of the genre see it as forced, so I completely comprehend why and how much opposition such a movie would face. However, I myself disagree that it is forced and see it as progressive instead.

The comic book adaptation genre may (or may not) be the next territory for films featuring all-female main casts. Comedies are the most recent genre that has followed the modern trend with examples like Bridesmaids, etc.

Like Ghostbusters?

This discussion tangent should account for the fact all of these movies are based on material derived from comic books. Every MCU title, without exception, is based on an actual comic book title. It is unlikely but a comic book title, like A-Force, being adapted into a movie(s), would not be source material exception for Marvel/Disney and the MCU. It would simply be a movie featuring male actors in notably less supportive roles than those that had preceded it.

And they have 60-years of material to get you before they need to worry about an all-female team. Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, and tons of other teams and characters are out there to use without having to force themselves to have an all female superhero team.

And I would add that for every Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, there have been many more Catwoman and Elektra's. I'd much prefer to see things happen organically than because of someone's agenda.

 

[Runwildboys]

Like Ghostbusters?



And they have 60-years of material to get you before they need to worry about an all-female team. Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, and tons of other teams and characters are out there to use without having to force themselves to have an all female superhero team.

And I would add that for every Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, there have been many more Catwoman and Elektra's. I'd much prefer to see things happen organically than because of someone's agenda.

The thing is, when you see an all male team, it seems like that's just the way it happened to work out, because there have been so many more male superheroes. When you see an all female team, it seems intentionally exclusionary.

 

[Stash]

The thing is, when you see an all male team, it seems like that's just the way it happened to work out, because there have been so many more male superheroes. When you see an all female team, it seems intentionally exclusionary.

I can't honestly think of a famous team that didn't have female representation. And if it happened now, with a male only team, certain people would be screaming about it. Conversely, if males were excluded, some would see it as progressive and empowering. And then cry about it when the project fails - see the most recent Ghostbusters debacle. An incredible double-standard.

 

[DallasEast]

Like Ghostbusters?

There are plenty of screen duds in film history no matter the cast makeup.

And they have 60-years of material to get you before they need to worry about an all-female team. Fantastic Four, X-Men, the Avengers, and tons of other teams and characters are out there to use without having to force themselves to have an all female superhero team.

And I would add that for every Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, there have been many more Catwoman and Elektra's. I'd much prefer to see things happen organically than because of someone's agenda.

I am certain there is enough material to satisfy most fans of the genre. However, I would not dislike an opportunity of seeing what can be offered to audiences--even if some of the audience does not desire it.

Now, I would point out that I fully acknowledge Disney has a profit agenda and do not agree with every project they pump out (The Last Jedi ). That said, practically every Hollywood studio strives for maximum box office projects. The evidence is the amount of (obvious) duds the industry throws out to theaters every year.

Disney is simply more greedy (heck they are on another level right now) than their peers. The only good thing I accept from their transparent goal is the opportunity of experiencing onscreen material made possible due to less restrictive corporate imaginations.

 

[Stash]

There are plenty of screen duds in film history no matter the cast makeup.

Are you really going to try to play that angle regarding that film? Really?

I am certain there is enough material to satisfy most fans of the genre. However, I would not dislike an opportunity of seeing what can be offered to audiences--even if some of the audience does not desire it.

Again, worked out great for Ghostbusters!

Now, I would point out that I fully acknowledge Disney has a profit agenda and do not agree with every project they pump out (The Last Jedi ). That said, practically every Hollywood studio strives for maximum box office projects. The evidence is the amount of (obvious) duds the industry throws out to theaters every year.

Disney is simply more greedy (heck they are on another level right now) than their peers. The only good thing I accept from their transparent goal is the opportunity of experiencing onscreen material made possible due to less restrictive corporate imaginations.

I look at it like this, I know that their motivations aren't pure and altruistic, they're out for the money. But, if, along the way, they do help to promote females (alongside males) and end up increasing diversity along the way? It's ultimately a good thing. I just wish they wouldn't been so heavy handed in forcing it to where their agenda is showing.

 

[DallasEast]

Are you really going to try to play that angle regarding that film? Really?

Again, worked out great for Ghostbusters!

...I will be bowing out of the discussion in a moment. Good convo though.

I look at it like this, I know that their motivations aren't pure and altruistic, they're out for the money. But, if, along the way, they do help to promote females (alongside males) and end up increasing diversity along the way? It's ultimately a good thing. I just wish they wouldn't been so heavy handed in forcing it to where their agenda is showing.

In a way, I hope any agenda proves heavy handed enough for a project like A-Force or maybe all-female X-Men film to be realized. Your advice of not holding my breath is likely 99.9% accurate though. I extremely doubt even powerhouse Disney (just how many BILLIONS will the studio earn in just 2019 alone???) will be as heavy handed as I would want them to be before I croak. Genetically, I might have a chance of breakng the centennial mark like my maternal grandmother but I doubt even Hollywood will accommodate my hopes even if I were given nearly another half-century of wait-and-see.

I am going cold turkey on the thread from here-on-out. Meanwhile, the countdown to FOX's Dark Phoenix continues ticking down. This pit in my stomach will not go away...

 

[Stash]

...I will be bowing out of the discussion in a moment. Good convo though.
In a way, I hope any agenda proves heavy handed enough for a project like A-Force or maybe all-female X-Men film to be realized. Your advice of not holding my breath is likely 99.9% accurate though. I extremely doubt even powerhouse Disney (just how many BILLIONS will the studio earn in just 2019 alone???) will be as heavy handed as I would want them to be before I croak. Genetically, I might have a chance of breakng the centennial mark like my maternal grandmother but I doubt even Hollywood will accommodate my hopes even if I were given nearly another half-century of wait-and-see.

I am going cold turkey on the thread from here-on-out. Meanwhile, the countdown to FOX's Dark Phoenix continues ticking down. This pit in my stomach will not go away...

Let me know how it is when you see it. I have very little inclination to do so, but I respect your opinion and a great review from you might sway me.

 

[Kevinicus]

I understand why some of the audience and fans of the genre see it as forced, so I completely comprehend why and how much opposition such a movie would face. However, I myself disagree that it is forced and see it as progressive instead.

The comic book adaptation genre may (or may not) be the next territory for films featuring all-female main casts. Comedies are the most recent genre that has followed the modern trend with examples like Bridesmaids, etc.

This discussion tangent should account for the fact all of these movies are based on material derived from comic books. Every MCU title, without exception, is based on an actual comic book title. It is unlikely but a comic book title, like A-Force, being adapted into a movie(s), would not be source material exception for Marvel/Disney and the MCU. It would simply be a movie featuring male actors in notably less supportive roles than those that had preceded it.

Ignoring the silly agenda associated with it. It is objectively bad film making/story telling. It does not make sense in the context of the movie it is in or with any logical thinking at all.

 

[Runwildboys]

@DallasEast , I know you said you were finished with this thread, but I just saw an ad on the CW, with a redheaded Batgirl standing next to the Batsignal.