Ball's fault

[Doomsday101]

You keep coming back to Jenkins decision, ... let's say he lets him catch it, but can't bring Jackson down, ... then can we agree that Ball played it wrong.

If you can't blame Jenkins, then what do you think of Ball's play?

I'm saying Jackson in the open is going to burn most safety in the league. Once he was able to turn up field he was taking it to the house.

 

[dffl11]

It does matter what coverage since that will dictate what the safety responsbility in on that play. As Deion said Jenkins can't do that unless he knows he has support over the top on that play you can't tell me that Ball was suppose to be providing that support unless you know what coverage they are in.

100% correct. I teach my (high school) DB's to NEVER make that play like Jenkins did on any man coverage calls. We play mostly cover 3 and cover 2.....and on occasion cover 1...but no matter what we see, we will NEVER know who's fault or who to blame unless we are 100% positive on the coverages that were called. If Jenkins had pre-snap safety help on that play, then "maybe" he can make that kind of an effort, but even then..........(and this is just my coaching style) i do not want that effort. Its much easier to make the tackle after a 8 yard gain on that play...and live to see another play........ then to take that kind of chance and give up BIG Yards...in this case 91 yds and 6!

Im in my office and prolly should be working instead of posting on Dallas Cowboys message boards....and because of that, I am afraid I just made no sense whatsoever....:bang2:........

Either way its put....the bottom line is, if you don't know the coverage called then you cant say whos responsible and YES, the coverage called on this play does matter.

 

[dffl11]

You keep coming back to Jenkins decision, ... let's say he lets him catch it, but can't bring Jackson down, ... then can we agree that Ball played it wrong.

If you can't blame Jenkins, then what do you think of Ball's play?

well hypothetically speaking, if Jenkins plays it right and goes for the tackle and not the big pass break up....AND he still cant bring him down, he would have at the very least slowed the play down and allowed for Ball to make up for the bad angle he took......

 

[WV Cowboy]

I'm saying Jackson in the open is going to burn most safety in the league. Once he was able to turn up field he was taking it to the house.

No matter what Jenkins did, right or wrong, good or bad, Ball has a job to do. He took the wrong angle and used the wrong technique.
Had he done what he was supposed to do Sens tackles Jackson at the 35.
He should have used Sens and the sidelines to help him bracket Jackson, but used neither by letting Jackson cut it back to the middle.

I have tried to discuss this rationally, but if you are going to absolve Ball of all blame then I'll never agree.

 

[Doomsday101]

No matter what Jenkins did, right or wrong, good or bad, Ball has a job to do. He took the wrong angle and used the wrong technique.
Had he done what he was supposed to do Sens tackles Jackson at the 35.
He should have used Sens and the sidelines to help him bracket Jackson, but used neither by letting Jackson cut it back to the middle.

I have tried to discuss this rationally, but if you are going to absolve Ball of all blame then I'll never agree.

It is not a matter of absolving Ball, Jenkins should not have done this in the 1st place.

Could Ball have done a better job sure but Jackson is not some run of the mill WR he is a big play WR with top speed and very agile and one of the top open field runners who has done this to many guys in the NFL.

Again it is called situational football knowing where your help is and what the game situations is at any given moment as to when you take the risk.

Philly is not the kind of team who will put together long drives they are a quick strike team and Jenkins played into their strength when he did not have to.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I have and I'm sure many others have painfully discovered that Allen Ball isn't not a good tackler. If you play safety in the NFL, it's a must that you be able to tackle because you are THE last line of defense...

 

[Stautner]

Can't really fault Jenkins on the Jackson 91 yd play, .. he was at least trying to bat it down, .. probably missed by inches.

But after that, Sens was chasing and if Ball uses the sidelines as a teammate, and forces Jackson to stay on the sidelines, he could possibly shove him out or Sens could catch him if he slows up approaching Ball.

But Ball lets him turn it back to the middle of the field, and it was all over.

I do realize Jackson is tough to get down in the open field, but I would like to see us use the correct technique when we can.

That should not have gone 91 for the score.

I can fault Jenkins. He was a little turned and a little off balance and therefore not positioned well to knock the ball down, yet he tried anyway. I don't mind that he was a little turned because that happens in coverage, but he needs to recognize when he can go for the ball and when to just make the tackle.

That said, that only explains the completion and a moderate gain. Jenkins was at least where he needed to be, and if he had proper help from his teammates Jenkins wouldn't have turned it into a huge play.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I have and I'm sure many others have painfully discovered that Allen Ball isn't not a good tackler. If you play safety in the NFL, it's a must that you be able to tackle because you are THE last line of defense...

But he is only responsible for making tackles if everyone in front of him does everything right.

And since Jenkins screwed up, then Ball can not be expected to make the play.

Especially if it is that "unstoppable punk" Jackson.

 

[Doomsday101]

But he is only responsible for making tackles if everyone in front of him does everything right.

And since Jenkins screwed up, then Ball can not be expected to make the play.

Especially if it is that "unstoppable punk" Jackson.

He was in the middle of the field having to come back to the sideline, could he have done a better job yes he could but that is a mismatch in the open field vs a WR like Jackson that is why he is able to put up the big yardage numbers. So roll your eyes all you want no one is saying Ball did not share the blame I have only said it should not have happened in the 1st place.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I can fault Jenkins.

Did Jenkins break up the pass, .. no.

Was that a poor decision, .. turns out it was.

But I think he played that play and the ball pretty well, .. Vick just blew it past him I guess. It happens.

I do fault him for the way he played it on McCoys long run though, he should have turned him back inside and not given him the sidelines.

 

[Stautner]

But he is only responsible for making tackles if everyone in front of him does everything right.

And since Jenkins screwed up, then Ball can not be expected to make the play.

Especially if it is that "unstoppable punk" Jackson.

This goes agains the term "safety". If everyone in front of the safety does everything right then the safety isn't needed. The term "safety" refers to the player who is still available to stop the big play when the offense gets through the first line of defense. That's why he is called a "safety" rather than a middle back (as opposed to a corner back).

 

[WV Cowboy]

He was in the middle of the field having to come back to the sideline, could he have done a better job yes he could but that is a mismatch in the open field vs a WR like Jackson that is why he is able to put up the big yardage numbers. So roll your eyes all you want no one is saying Ball did not share the blame I have only said it should not have happened in the 1st place.

One on one, yes that is a mismatch. That's why he needed to keep him on the sidelines and in front of Sens.

I'm tired of always telling our corners to play them soft. Just let'em catch it.

We let the Saints go down the field and take the lead with that mentality.
We let the Colts go down the field and tie the game with that mentality.

I'm sick of watching that.

8 or 9 times out of 10 Jenkins would have knocked that pass down, ... if he doesn't the safety has to make a play.

 

[WV Cowboy]

This goes agains the term "safety". If everyone in front of the safety does everything right then the safety isn't needed. The term "safety" refers to the player who is still available to stop the big play when the offense gets through the first line of defense. That's why he is called a "safety" rather than a middle back (as opposed to a corner back).

I was being sarcastic, .. hence the

 

[dffl11]

Did Jenkins break up the pass, .. no.

Was that a poor decision, .. turns out it was.

But I think he played that play and the ball pretty well, .. Vick just blew it past him I guess. It happens.

I do fault him for the way he played it on McCoys long run though, he should have turned him back inside and not given him the sidelines.

this is wrong wrong WRONG......

 

[Stautner]

I was being sarcastic, .. hence the

I apologize. I missed that. I thought it was odd because I generally seem to be pretty much on board with what you post.

 

[Doomsday101]

One on one, yes that is a mismatch. That's why he needed to keep him on the sidelines and in front of Sens.

I'm tired of always telling our corners to play them soft. Just let'em catch it.

We let the Saints go down the field and take the lead with that mentality.
We let the Colts go down the field and tie the game with that mentality.

I'm sick of watching that.

8 or 9 times out of 10 Jenkins would have knocked that pass down, ... if he doesn't the safety has to make a play.

I'm tired of watching them get burned. Taking dumb chances is what will get you beat and has through much of the year. a 9 yard pass is not going to beat you a 91 yard TD will and put us in a hole in a part of the game where we could least afford it.
Again we see it different that does not appear to change.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Can't really fault Jenkins on the Jackson 91 yd play, .. he was at least trying to bat it down, .. probably missed by inches.

But after that, Sens was chasing and if Ball uses the sidelines as a teammate, and forces Jackson to stay on the sidelines, he could possibly shove him out or Sens could catch him if he slows up approaching Ball.

But Ball lets him turn it back to the middle of the field, and it was all over.

I do realize Jackson is tough to get down in the open field, but I would like to see us use the correct technique when we can.

That should not have gone 91 for the score.

Ball took an ok angle, just slipped when Jackson cut. Sensebaugh was out of position as well and could've dove to trip him up, Jenkins picked a horrible time to gamble on a short pass, etc..

Lets try to avoid the threads blaming one person for losing an entire game, or giving up a huge play. Its always a bigger picture. He cut our defense up for 91 yards on the play, more than one person made a mistake.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Lets try to avoid the threads blaming one person for losing an entire game, or giving up a huge play. Its always a bigger picture. He cut our defense up for 91 yards on the play, more than one person made a mistake.

Typical message board over-reaction, ... nobody said that play lost us the game.

But you are right, more than one person made a mistake, .. Ball's was just the most glaringly ugly.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Typical message board over-reaction, ... nobody said that play lost us the game.

But you are right, more than one person made a mistake, .. Ball's was just the most glaringly ugly.

:laugh2:

Its actually not an overreaction at all. The overreaction was after the Saints game when everyone and their mother was saying it's "all Roy Williams' fault" that we lost the game. Guess you weren't here for that.

Wasn't referring to this specific play with Jackson, although it did seem like you were trying to blame the entire 91 yard TD on Ball. Hence the second part of my statement.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I love how people bash other players so they can lay off of Ball.

Ball got juked out of his shorts. Jenkins gambled and lost which is bad. OTOH, Ball was there to make a play and once again just failed to get the job done.

That is what Ball does: the safety that cannot help.

He is the worst player on the worst defense in Cowboys history.

People say he is okay???!!?!!?!!