BCS update - Texas #2 - Oklahoma #3

[MC KAos]

If I'm not mistaken, human polls already had OU ahead of Texas for the BCS formula. It was the computer that kept them out of it.

what i ment is that the computers have it right and the pollsters dont, OU has no business being ahead of UT right now. if they beat okie state without controversy, then i can accept them being ahead, but not right now i think its wrong

 

[Route 66]

what i ment is that the computers have it right and the pollsters dont, OU has no business being ahead of UT right now. if they beat okie state without controversy, then i can accept them being ahead, but not right now i think its wrong

I agree with you but there are also a lot that state if you simply go by the fact that you guys beat OU, then Texas Tech should always be ahead of you too. After all, we all share the same record and they did beat you guys.

 

[joseephuss]

I agree with you but there are also a lot that state if you simply go by the fact that you guys beat OU, then Texas Tech should always be ahead of you too. After all, we all share the same record and they did beat you guys.

A 3 way tie essentially becomes a 2 way tie between Texas and OU. Tech is fighting the up hill battle. They had the weakest schedule and were doubted until they came from behind in the final seconds to beat Texas. Texas and OU were highly respected for the entire season and both played tougher schedules than Tech.

That is probably unfair to Tech, but it is reality. Texas and OU have a long and grand history or at least that is the perception. They can get by with a loss. Tech had to be perfect. Any loss gives the perception that it is the same old Tech, pretenders not contenders. Especially when they lose in the fashion that they did.

So if it is just between Texas and OU, who do you take? That is a tough one.

And I do think OU's recent losses in BCS bowl games does matter to some. It doesn't matter to me and it probably doesn't matter to most, but I think it will influence some of the voters. As tight as this race is going to be after this weekend, it may only take a few voters to be the difference.

 

[Dallas]

A 3 way tie essentially becomes a 2 way tie between Texas and OU. Tech is fighting the up hill battle. They had the weakest schedule and were doubted until they came from behind in the final seconds to beat Texas. Texas and OU were highly respected for the entire season and both played tougher schedules than Tech.

That is probably unfair to Tech, but it is reality. Texas and OU have a long and grand history or at least that is the perception. They can get by with a loss. Tech had to be perfect. Any loss gives the perception that it is the same old Tech, pretenders not contenders. Especially when they lose in the fashion that they did.

So if it is just between Texas and OU, who do you take? That is a tough one.

And I do think OU's recent losses in BCS bowl games does matter to some. It doesn't matter to me and it probably doesn't matter to most, but I think it will influence some of the voters. As tight as this race is going to be after this weekend, it may only take a few voters to be the difference.

If that was the case then Oklahoma wouldn't have such a lead in the human polls right now, I wouldn't think.

Again - you are arguing that the kids now should be punished for OU's past. I just don't buy that argument and I doubt most human voters will in the end.

 

[peplaw06]

I agree with you but there are also a lot that state if you simply go by the fact that you guys beat OU, then Texas Tech should always be ahead of you too. After all, we all share the same record and they did beat you guys.

Everything wasn't equal in the three team round robin though.

1) OU beat Tech at home
2) Tech beat Texas at home
3) Texas beat OU on a neutral field.

Of those three, the neutral field win is the more impressive. If everything were equal and Texas beat OU at home, then that logic would hold more water.

 

[joseephuss]

If that was the case then Oklahoma wouldn't have such a lead in the human polls right now, I wouldn't think.

We can see that it is the case because Tech is so far down in the rankings. It is a two way race between Texas and OU with OU holding the lead. Tech is not close to either at this point, so as I said it is not a 3 way race.

Again - you are arguing that the kids now should be punished for OU's past. I just don't buy that argument and I doubt most human voters will in the end.

I am not arguing that the kids should be punished for OU's past. I am saying that there will be a few(not most) voters that will be influenced by OU's past.

I agree with you that it should not matter when it comes to OU this season. I can see the difference between this year's OU team and the OU team from last year and the previous year. However, just like there are a few posters on this message board and other message boards that bring it up as an argument against OU there will be voters that feel the same way. They are just people, too. These voters aren't above you and I . They will make poor decisions based on strange arguments even if it is a stance that you and I don't agree with. I am cynical and do think a few voters will use this argument.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. So you want to punish the kids this year because of what OU did the past few years?

Im sorry son. Oklahoma has showed poorly the past few years and even though you are playing some of the best football in the nation right now, im sorry you can't go to the big game because of past history.

Are you serious?

Something tells me you are just talking through your hatred for Oklahoma and Orange colored Glasses.

Thats like putting Dallas on probation because they haven't won a playoff game in forever. Sheebus!

Never the less. It's true and no amount of crying about it is going to change that. I guess you'll just have to deal with that one simple fact.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What's in the past is in the past.

If you're going by history, Stoops and co. also won the Rose Bowl and the BCS National Championship along with the Cotton Bowl from the '01 season and the Holiday Bowl from the '05 season.

Why don't you go off History. Talk about what OU lost and what they won. Then talk about Texas bowl history in the same time frame.

 

[Route 66]

Why don't you go off History. Talk about what OU lost and what they won. Then talk about Texas bowl history in the same time frame.

How far back do you go then? OU owns more National Titles. If you are saying perception only goes back ten years or so then I see your argument.

 

[Dallas]

Thanks for such GREAT analytical debate Hornfans. =)

Oklahoma shouldn't be where they are because of past history. Let us just toss out what this team has done this year and instead judge them solely on the past.


We understand your argument now.



And really....who's REALLY crying here? Hahah. It seems some horn fans are more upset than some here.

Arguing that scenario proves my point.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How far back do you go then? OU owns more National Titles. If you are saying perception only goes back ten years or so then I see your argument.

As far as you want. The point here is, and there is not getting around it, the same arguement has been used on behalf of OU for several years now. In the last 5 years, OU is 1 and 5.

Lost 48-28 to WV in the Fiesta in 08.
Lost 43-42 to Boise St. in the Fiesta in 07.
Won 17-14 over Oregon in the Holiday in 06.
Lost 55 - 19 to USC in Orange Bowl in 05.
Lost 21-24 to LSU in Sugar Bowl in 04.

Over the past 10 seasons, which I believe spans the BCS, OU is 4-6 overall.


Texas, on the other hand, is 4-1.

Won 52-34 over ASU in the Holiday in 07.
Won 26-24 over Iowa in the Alamo in 06.
Won 41-38 over USC in the Rose in 05.
Won 38-37 over Michigan in the Rose in 04.
Lost 28-20 over WSU in the Holiday in 03.

Over the past 10 seasons, again BCS span, Texas is 7-3.

I mean, certainly you can go back but I'd probaby say it's fair to go back as far as the BCS and just judge from there. If the criteria is perception, then I certainly think it's fair to judge based on performance as well. OU fans will not like this and they may say that past has nothing to do with the present team. I'd expect them to say that and I would actually agree to some extent. In the past, they have won the Southern Conference of the Big 12 and so, they deserve the BCS bid they have received or the other bowl invites. This year, it's different. It's all perception because of the records. They will say that they beat Tech convincingly and that's true, they did. However, they also got beat convincingly by Texas. Is there anybody here who would say that had we played Tech in Austin, we wouldn't have beaten them as well? We should not have lost to Tech. We gave that game away but we did lose to Tech. That's a fact and they won fair and square. That doesn't change the fact that OU has pretty much sucked in Bowl games recently and it doesn't change the fact that Texas beat OU this year. That's just how I see it.

 

[Chinfu]

Look at the bowls UT is playing in and those opponents. 6-5 Iowa? The Rose bowls are great but factor in the opponents records also.

The stat I like to look at is 7 mnc's. that's quite telling...

 

[Dallas]

Look at the bowls UT is playing in and those opponents. 6-5 Iowa? The Rose bowls are great but factor in the opponents records also.

The stat I like to look at is 7 mnc's. that's quite telling...

Now - now - those don't count. :

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Look at the bowls UT is playing in and those opponents. 6-5 Iowa? The Rose bowls are great but factor in the opponents records also.

The stat I like to look at is 7 mnc's. that's quite telling...

Sure, do that. The same USC team Texas beat for the NC pretty much smoked OU. ASU was 10-2 in 07, you've covered Iowa, USC was 37 -1, unbeaten for two years before losing to Texas in the Rose Bowl. Michigan was 9-2. Washington was 9-3 in 03. LSU was 8-4. Washington in 01 was 8-3. Oregon in 00 was 10-2. Arkansas in 09 was 7-4. Miss. St. in 99 was 8-4. so that's the record of the teams.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Now - now - those don't count. :

Or, you could just read the previous post.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

UWV was 11-2 last year, Boise St. was 13-0 in 06, Oregon was 10-2 in 05, USC 13-0 in 04, LSU 12-1 in 03, WSU 10-2 in 03, Ark was 6-4 in 02, FSU was 11-1 01, Miss St. 7-4 in 00 and BYU which really was not during the BCS system because you didn't have a bowl in 99 so I guess you don't really count that into the totals.

 

[Ren]

what a great day to be a football fan Cowboys game and Longhorns game on the same day

 

[Rogah]

We can see that it is the case because Tech is so far down in the rankings. It is a two way race between Texas and OU with OU holding the lead. Tech is not close to either at this point, so as I said it is not a 3 way race.

This is an interesting point which I think creates an ironic paradox. IMHO, if we ignore margin of victory, then there is no logical reason TX Tech should be left out of the discussion of winning the Big 12 or advancing to the BCS Champsionship. It should be a 3-way race.

But you can't ignore margin of victory and by blowing out TX Tech so thoroughly, Oklahoma has hurt themselves as well as Texas Tech. After losing 65-14 (or something like that), TT fell so far in the rankings they are essentially eliminated them from any discussion relating to the Big 12 Championship. Which leaves us with OU and TX and, of course, everyone points out TX won their head-to-head.

I honestly believe OU would have been better suited to beat TT by a slim margin, then TT would still be a part of this whole discussion, which would minimize the impact of TX's head-to-head victory over OU.

But that's just another wild and crazy theory I have

 

[thekavorka]

it's too bad the Big 12 doesn't follow the SEC or ACC tiebreakers (stolen from BaD radio :

B. THREE (OR MORE) TEAM TIE

1. (Once the tie has been reduced to two teams, go to the two-team tie-breaker format.)
2. Combined head-to-head record among the tied teams.
3. Record of the tied teams within the division.
4. Head-to-head competition vs. the team within the division with the best overall (divisional and non-divisional) Conference record and proceeding through the division. Multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last.
5. Overall record vs. non-division teams.
6. Combined record vs. all common non-divisional teams.
7. Record vs. common non-divisional team with the best overall Conference (divisional and non-divisional) record and proceeding through other common non-divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division.
8. The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the last weekend of regular-season games shall be the divisional representative in the SEC Championship Game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the SEC Championship Game.

If this was the SEC, Texas would be in. They'll probably fix the tiebreakers over the summer.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is an interesting point which I think creates an ironic paradox. IMHO, if we ignore margin of victory, then there is no logical reason TX Tech should be left out of the discussion of winning the Big 12 or advancing to the BCS Champsionship. It should be a 3-way race.

But you can't ignore margin of victory and by blowing out TX Tech so thoroughly, Oklahoma has hurt themselves as well as Texas Tech. After losing 65-14 (or something like that), TT fell so far in the rankings they are essentially eliminated them from any discussion relating to the Big 12 Championship. Which leaves us with OU and TX and, of course, everyone points out TX won their head-to-head.

I honestly believe OU would have been better suited to beat TT by a slim margin, then TT would still be a part of this whole discussion, which would minimize the impact of TX's head-to-head victory over OU.

But that's just another wild and crazy theory I have

It is unfortunate, your right IMO. TT should be in this discussion. I mean, it doesn't really matter but if you look at TT/OU historically, OU has always beaten TT pretty good since Mike Leach has been there. It is what it is but I don't think that the OU/TT game is indicative of how good OU is or how bad TT is viewed right now. I think TT is a much better team then most people think but that game hurts them pretty bad.

It will be interesting to see what happens to TT in this next game. If that OU defeat hangs with them and they lose again, that's going to be real interesting indeed. If that happens, then I think you have to give the node to Texas if both OU and Texas are one loss teams.