Be Careful what you wish for about letting Garrett go

stasheroo said:
This is really a sad truth.

Campo was head coach for the end of the '90's run, when those players left were in steep decline and the salary cap was a mess.

By comparison, Garrett inherited a well-stocked roster with multiple Pro Bowlers still in their prime.

And although Garrett's season records are better, it would be tough to say who has done less given what they inherited.
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OFFENSE
Position Names
WR Miles Austin
LT Doug Free
LG Kyle Kosier
C Andre Gurode
RG Leonard Davis
RT Marc Colombo
TE Jason Witten
WR Roy Williams
QB Tony Romo (6)
Jon Kitna (9)
FB Chris Gronkowski
RB Marion Barber (10)
Felix Jones (6)

DEFENSE

Position Names

LE Marcus Spears (7)
Stephen Bowen (7)
NT Jay Ratliff
RE Igor Olshansky
SLB Anthony Spencer
MILB Bradie James
MOLB Keith Brooking
WLB DeMarcus Ware
LCB Terence Newman
RCB Mike Jenkins
FS Alan Ball
SS Gerald Sensabaugh
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You mean this one?! I took the liberty of bolding the good or better players and placing in italics the decent ones. Many here wanted Newman gone, Bowen was a good backup, Barber was on the decline and Felix was decent. Miles is fragile to put it nicely. There's your loaded team. You can look at the rest of the roster if you wish.
 
stasheroo said:
While I can agree with you that the two head coaches - Wade and Garrett - essentially stick to their side of the football, it is also true that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team.

Jerry gave Garrett his scapegoat in Rob Ryan last year and then let him go out and get Kiffin who he has repeatedly gushed about.

And now, there is no where else for either Jerry or Garret to run.

They've built it the way they wanted it, got 'their guys' and it's become a debacle.

That's debacle both offensively and defensively.

The offense has been terrible despite having very few injuries compared to the defense. In fact, the draft resources were put into the offense and it's worse than ever.

And as for the defense? Yeah, they've been decimated by injuries, but it doesn't take them completely off the hook.

No matter who they've had out there, at no time this season has that defense even looked acceptable by NFL standards, much less good.
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Mostly agree with this. The offense is not terrible but is inconsistent. It has failed the team for years though and I've consistently said that. There is nothing anyone can really do with the defensive injuries. True. You can blame Garrett as he is the HC and realistically he is the only one who can be blamed as Jerry isn't. That doesn't mean he deserves the venom being directed at him. There is no way to really evaluate his job if you're a fan looking at this team with this defense. I'm not happy about some of the issues on the O esp the OL. Now those on the inside KNOW exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are. I wouldn't be too confident with Jerry's responses on this matter.
 
jobberone said:
OFFENSE
Position Names
WR Miles Austin
LT Doug Free
LG Kyle Kosier
C Andre Gurode
RG Leonard Davis
RT Marc Colombo
TE Jason Witten
WR Roy Williams
QB Tony Romo (6)
Jon Kitna (9)
FB Chris Gronkowski
RB Marion Barber (10)
Felix Jones (6)

DEFENSE

Position Names

LE Marcus Spears (7)
Stephen Bowen (7)
NT Jay Ratliff
RE Igor Olshansky
SLB Anthony Spencer
MILB Bradie James
MOLB Keith Brooking
WLB DeMarcus Ware
LCB Terence Newman
RCB Mike Jenkins
FS Alan Ball
SS Gerald Sensabaugh
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You mean this one?! LOL! I took the liberty of bolding the good or better players and placing in italics the decent ones. Many here wanted Newman gone, Bowen was a good backup, Barber was on the decline and Felix was decent. Miles is fragile to put it nicely. There's your loaded team. You can look at the rest of the roster if you wish.
Click to expand...

No need.

You clearly prove my point.

Gurode goes to the Pro Bowl in 2010 but doesn't even make the decent list?

I need go no further and as I said, it's not a topic worthy of any debate anyway.

Everybody and everything gets downgraded in the never-ending push to make any excuse for the failings of Jason Garrett.
 
stasheroo said:
No need.

You clearly prove my point.

Gurode goes to the Pro Bowl in 2010 but doesn't even make the decent list?

I need go no further and as I said, it's not a topic worthy of any debate anyway.

Everybody and everything gets downgraded in the never-ending push to make any excuse for the failings of Jason Garrett.
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Sry I left him off. I was probably the first person on this board to consistently say Gurode was a solid player so I just overlooked him. He definitely went downhill though.
 
jobberone said:
Mostly agree with this. The offense is not terrible but is inconsistent. It has failed the team for years though and I've consistently said that. There is nothing anyone can really do with the defensive injuries. True. You can blame Garrett as he is the HC and realistically he is the only one who can be blamed as Jerry isn't. That doesn't mean he deserves the venom being directed at him. There is no way to really evaluate his job if you're a fan looking at this team with this defense. I'm not happy about some of the issues on the O esp the OL. Now those on the inside KNOW exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are. I wouldn't be too confident with Jerry's responses on this matter.
Click to expand...

And I'm saying that he's run out of excuses.

Even if we totally discount that pathetic defense, this offense, his offense, isn't much better and was completely shut down by a defense populated by a bunch of nobodies.

So even if he were to be given a mulligan for the defense, the fact is that his offense is failing as well, and injuries cannot be used as an excuse there.

This offense hasn't been good since their explosion against the Broncos several weeks ago, and even prior to that they were inconsistent.

Given that offense is his supposed area of expertise, and that he was stripped of playcalling in an effort to make him a more effective head coach, and that significant draft investments were made to that side of the ball, I see no more excuses to be made for the failings of Jason Garrett.

No fingers left to point, no changes left to make, nowhere to run.

This is the end of the line.
 
jobberone said:
Sry I left him off. I was probably the first person on this board to consistently say Gurode was a solid player so I just overlooked him. He definitely went downhill though.
Click to expand...

Won't dispute that.

I think the culture led to several 'fat cats' on the offensive line.
 
Garrett has made plenty of mistakes.

I really don't care if he is fired next year. It won't hurt my feelings.

But I seriously laugh at the notion that a new Head Coach is going to bring immediate results. Its an 8-8 roster.
Getting a new Head Coach isn't going to change much record wise.
 
Vintage said:
Garrett has made plenty of mistakes.

I really don't care if he is fired next year. It won't hurt my feelings.

But I seriously laugh at the notion that a new Head Coach is going to bring immediate results. Its an 8-8 roster.
Getting a new Head Coach isn't going to change much record wise.
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Who said that?
 
ote="Joe Rod, post: 5301154, member: 1083"]I've seen multiple threads about canning JG and bringing in a new coach. Given the person hiring the next coach, most of the names being floated around have no chance unless Jerry decides his health would not permit him to finish out his "coaching circle" hiring pattern:


Jerry coaching circle version 1.0:
  • Jimmy (taskmaster with his hands on everything, helped stock the roster with talent)
  • Barry (extreme players coach, playoff success with the other coaches core)
  • Chan (cerebral coach that never elevated his team above an average bunch)
  • Campo (lovable defensive coach that failed horrifically as a Head Coach)

Jerry coaching circle 2.0 is on the same path:
  • Parcells (taskmaster with his hands on everything, helped stock the roster with talent)
  • Wade (extreme players coach, only playoff victory since Barry with the other coaches core)
  • Garrett (cerebral coach that never elevated his team above an average bunch)
  • ???????? (lovable defensive coach that will fail horrifically as a Head Coach)
That's right folks, Rod Marinelli could very well be the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Mr. 0-16 has made an injury ravaged group of street free agents play hard, so Jerry will give him strong consideration to work his coaching Magic on your Dallas Cowboys. Rich Bisiaccia will be given consideration just like Joe DeCamillis was, but Jerry will ultimately feel that Rod is the best choice.

The only other candidate that I could see Jerry going for is Mike Zimmer, who was on the defensive staff here for many years.

Enjoy the coaching speculation, but be ready for an underwhelming hire people![/quote]


Rod as hc ??? Plz no ... The guy suck at Detroit. I would love him as a DC tho.
Fod
 
Joe Rod said:
I've seen multiple threads about canning JG and bringing in a new coach. Given the person hiring the next coach, most of the names being floated around have no chance unless Jerry decides his health would not permit him to finish out his "coaching circle" hiring pattern:

Jerry coaching circle version 1.0:
  • Jimmy (taskmaster with his hands on everything, helped stock the roster with talent)
  • Barry (extreme players coach, playoff success with the other coaches core)
  • Chan (cerebral coach that never elevated his team above an average bunch)
  • Campo (lovable defensive coach that failed horrifically as a Head Coach)

Jerry coaching circle 2.0 is on the same path:
  • Parcells (taskmaster with his hands on everything, helped stock the roster with talent)
  • Wade (extreme players coach, only playoff victory since Barry with the other coaches core)
  • Garrett (cerebral coach that never elevated his team above an average bunch)
  • ???????? (lovable defensive coach that will fail horrifically as a Head Coach)
That's right folks, Rod Marinelli could very well be the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Mr. 0-16 has made an injury ravaged group of street free agents play hard, so Jerry will give him strong consideration to work his coaching Magic on your Dallas Cowboys. Rich Bisiaccia will be given consideration just like Joe DeCamillis was, but Jerry will ultimately feel that Rod is the best choice.

The only other candidate that I could see Jerry going for is Mike Zimmer, who was on the defensive staff here for many years.

Enjoy the coaching speculation, but be ready for an underwhelming hire people!
Click to expand...
Sir, you make a compelling case.
 
stasheroo said:
And I'm saying that he's run out of excuses.

Even if we totally discount that pathetic defense, this offense, his offense, isn't much better and was completely shut down by a defense populated by a bunch of nobodies.

So even if he were to be given a mulligan for the defense, the fact is that his offense is failing as well, and injuries cannot be used as an excuse there.

This offense hasn't been good since their explosion against the Broncos several weeks ago, and even prior to that they were inconsistent.

Given that offense is his supposed area of expertise, and that he was stripped of playcalling in an effort to make him a more effective head coach, and that significant draft investments were made to that side of the ball, I see no more excuses to be made for the failings of Jason Garrett.

No fingers left to point, no changes left to make, nowhere to run.

This is the end of the line.
Click to expand...

Perhaps so but you cannot run an offense in a vacuum. This bad of a pass defense is going to destroy any chances of having a balance game plan. You simply have to have a very high Sc% which means few mistakes, short fields and turnovers to keep up. My problems with the last game revolves around the OL and how badly they looked. Again I haven't looked at it all. I'm trying to find the time and the stomach to do it without distraction.
 
jobberone said:
Perhaps so but you cannot run an offense in a vacuum. This bad of a pass defense is going to destroy any chances of having a balance game plan. You simply have to have a very high Sc% which means few mistakes, short fields and turnovers to keep up. My problems with the last game revolves around the OL and how badly they looked. Again I haven't looked at it all. I'm trying to find the time and the stomach to do it without distraction.
Click to expand...

Well, the good news is that you have a free Sunday to dedicate to that entire game. Stock up on antacid! :p
 
Vintage said:
But I seriously laugh at the notion that a new Head Coach is going to bring immediate results. Its an 8-8 roster.
Getting a new Head Coach isn't going to change much record wise.
Click to expand...

Depends on the coach. It may be an 8-8 roster, but a good coach can win you two games a year just by game management and proper game planning.

If every roster were the same from year to year, you would not see last place teams going to first the following year with new coaches. It happens nearly every season.

New blood, fresh ideas can work.

Just because we have had awful luck with head coaches does not mean it cannot be done in theory.

It just may not be feasible with our unique model of doing things--namely the Jerry Jones way.
 
Joe Rod said:
Well, the good news is that you have a free Sunday to dedicate to that entire game. Stock up on antacid! :p
Click to expand...

I want to because I'm curious but I took forever with the first quarter and OMG did it look bad. The only saving grace is a good team will have a real real stinker on occasion and then rebound. Our problem is this defense sucks so badly even if the offense plays well you aren't likely to win against a decent team. Right now Philly scares me.
 
stasheroo said:
While I can agree with you that the two head coaches - Wade and Garrett - essentially stick to their side of the football, it is also true that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team.

Jerry gave Garrett his scapegoat in Rob Ryan last year and then let him go out and get Kiffin who he has repeatedly gushed about.

And now, there is no where else for either Jerry or Garret to run.

They've built it the way they wanted it, got 'their guys' and it's become a debacle.

That's debacle both offensively and defensively.

The offense has been terrible despite having very few injuries compared to the defense. In fact, the draft resources were put into the offense and it's worse than ever.

And as for the defense? Yeah, they've been decimated by injuries, but it doesn't take them completely off the hook.

No matter who they've had out there, at no time this season has that defense even looked acceptable by NFL standards, much less good.
Click to expand...

Debacle is a little harsh. We're a .500 team. Less than expected yes, but places like TB, Jax, the Bengals in the 90's, those were debacles. We're what we've always been, mediocre.
 
WV Cowboy said:
This is the bothersome part.

It is painfully obvious that we aren't getting any better under this regime. Although if Jerry thinks we are, we will stick with JG.

But even if Jerry decides to replace JG, he is either too stupid or too stubborn to bring in the coach that this franchise needs.

He either can't pick a quality coach, or will not pick one that will over-ride him and get credit for it. He could not stand that.

I'm thinking we are screwed.
Click to expand...

I believe that if a coach came in and had the same success that Any Reid is having in KC and got credit from media for turning the Cowboys around, JJ would let him go. JJ wants to be the one that gets the credit. So we are stuck waiting on the next puppet
 
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