Behold Zimmer's pressure defense!

[theogt]

That was the play with 6:22 left in the first half, a play-action pass on first-and-10 from our 45. Ware lined up at outside linebacker and was supposed to cover Cooley, but Cooley stayed in to block. So Ware jammed Cooley at the line of scrimmage, and Cooley just stayed there. Ware had about a half-second after he started to push Cooley backward before the ball was thrown. He was never really rushing the passer on that play. If Cooley had gone out for a pass, Ware would have been covering him. The other lineman were reading the play-action.

All of the people who think this is an example of our pass-rush problems need to consider the situation and watch the play again. It wasn't a third-and-long from the shotgun when we couldn't get close to the quarterback, it was a first-down, play-action pass when only three guys were even supposed to be rushing (and after reading the run first) and Ware was supposed to be in coverage.

7 defending against 5 in coverage. What was the result of the play?

 

[AdamJT13]

7 defending against 5 in coverage. What was the result of the play?

A 27-yard pass. Ellis whiffed on his jam at the line, and Akin Ayodele didn't drop far enough.

 

[bbgun]

"Play action" is not a legitimate excuse. The RB is nowhere in the picture, so the linemen no longer had to respect the run. Still, they're stifled at the line. How 'bout all the times they couldn't generate any pressure in obvious passing situations? It wouldn't be hard to find incriminating photos demonstrating that. Ware got through once, only because he was matched on a TE. Everyone else was shut out. The blinders need to come off.

 

[AdamJT13]

"Play action" is not a legitimate excuse. The RB is nowhere in the picture, so the linemen no longer had to respect the run.

Like I said, watch the play. There's not much time for the down linemen to convert from run defense to pass-rushing. It's not like Brunell was back there for very long.

How 'bout all the times they couldn't generate any pressure in obvious passing situations? It wouldn't be hard to find incriminating photos demonstrating that. Ware got through once, only because he was matched on a TE. Everyone else was shut out.

Ware had a good game rushing the passer (which he did only 15 times). Nobody else did, though.

 

[Stautner]

Like I said, watch the play. There's not much time for the down linemen to convert from run defense to pass-rushing. It's not like Brunell was back there for very long.



Ware had a good game rushing the passer (which he did only 15 times). Nobody else did, though.

Brunnell took a deep drop. He may not have checked off to secondary receivers, but it wasn't a quick pass either.

Still, it's kind of ridiculous to argue about a single play - one play doesn't tell the story regardless of which side of the argument you are on.

Ware got pressure only a couple of times, and really then only when blocked by the TE. Considering Brunnell wasn't harassed on the vast majority of pass plays NO ONE had a good day rushing the passer.

As for this excuse about not being able to get pressure because we play run first, that's just plain bogus.

First because Julius Peppers and other highly effective pass rushing 4-3 DE's as well as many 3-4 OLB's have to also play against the run, yet they still find ways to get to the QB. The idea is to read the play then attack the QB once you read pass, and though making a read takes a split second away somehow players on other teams can still get pressure. Some of you guys act like we are the only team that has pass rushing personnel also play against the run when the reality is that successful pass rushers don't only succeed by playing pass EVERY down.

And second because there are plenty of downs that are clear passing situations where we STILL don't get pressure despite man to man blocking. You can't just explain that away with the "run first" excuse.

 

[DipChit]

Ware had a good game rushing the passer (which he did only 15 times). Nobody else did, though.

Which might not be any surprise when a guy like Spears has this to say about his pass rushing duties:

... It's Me, Canty's, and Fergi's job to get these guys into third and long so Ware and Ellis can pin their ears back. You aren't going to see sacks from this defense in first and second downs."

I'd feel better if he would've used a term like "a bunch of" or "many" before the word.. sacks.

That suggests he doesnt even at all concern himself with it even though theres no shortage of pass plays on those 2 downs. Why would this be.. did BP tell him he doesnt want them anywhere near a QB because with our luck on penalties these days they'd just call roughing the passer anyway?

 

[Stautner]

Which might not be any surprise when a guy like Spears has this to say about his pass rushing duties:

... It's Me, Canty's, and Fergi's job to get these guys into third and long so Ware and Ellis can pin their ears back. You aren't going to see sacks from this defense in first and second downs."

I'd feel better if he would've used a term like "a bunch of" or "many" before the word.. sacks.

That suggests he doesnt even at all concern himself with it even though theres no shortage of pass plays on those 2 downs. Why would this be.. did BP tell him he doesnt want them anywhere near a QB because with our luck on penalties these days they'd just call roughing the passer anyway?

I imagine Spears was talking in general terms and really meant "a bunch of" or "many" - to him that was probably understood. But that's the problem with interviews and the way they are read by the public - they are really only an outline and not a detailed account of what's real.

But obviously some took it to mean that our defense just doesn't provide any opportunity at all to sack the QB on 1st and 2nd down, which ANY football guy will tell you is false. We may be less agressive attacking the QB on those downs than some teams, but it's not like we are forbidden from beating one on one blocking and making a sack when the opportunity is there.

 

[bbgun]

And second because there are plenty of downs that are clear passing situations where we STILL don't get pressure despite man to man blocking. You can't just explain that away with the "run first" excuse.

Exactly. My photo was not an unfair snapshot of Zimmer's defense; in fact, it was emblematic of a season-long problem. If I posted this photo of Romo to portray him as a boob and a klutz, that would be unfair, because we know different.

http://img45.*************/img45/2492/72416612yz3.jpg

 

[khiladi]

But obviously some took it to mean that our defense just doesn't provide any opportunity at all to sack the QB on 1st and 2nd down, which ANY football guy will tell you is false. We may be less agressive attacking the QB on those downs than some teams, but it's not like we are forbidden from beating one on one blocking and making a sack when the opportunity is there.

So than what your saying is that it does have something to do with schemes and defensive philosophy?

If the interior lineman are saying that it is pretty much their job to contain the run, than how can one argue that our lack of pressure is purely because we lack players that can rush the passer?

Remember also that Ware containes the screen pass pretty damn well..

 

[DipChit]

Makes sense, Staut.. otherwise I'd have to assume BP chewed them out hardcore on the one time each he and Canty did accidentally get a Sack so far this year.

 

[Stautner]

So than what your saying is that it does have something to do with schemes and defensive philosophy?

If the interior lineman are saying that it is pretty much their job to contain the run, than how can one argue that our lack of pressure is purely because we lack players that can rush the passer?

Remember also that Ware containes the screen pass pretty damn well..

I never once said that scheme had NOTHING to do with it.

Your comment is exactly the kind of thing that fuels weak arguments - you put words in people's mouths to try and prop them up.

All I'm saying and have said many times on many threads is that good pass rushers are required to have a good pass rush, and while schemes can help, they can only do so much to cover for a lack of good pass rushers.

As for the interior linemen containing the run, you apparently have missed much of the commentary above. Containing the run is a first priority but not the ONLY job of the linemen, nor is it the ONLY job of the OLB's. Once again you are acting as if we are the only team that requires its players to read run/pass on 1st or 2nd down and then react accordingly - LOTS of sucessful pass rushers have to make those reads just like our guys do, but they somehow still manage to pressure the QB.

 

[AdamJT13]

Brunnell took a deep drop. He may not have checked off to secondary receivers, but it wasn't a quick pass either.

He faked the handoff, dropped, got set and threw. Watch the play. From the point of the fake to the point of the throw wasn't a long time. He wasn't back there all day looking for a receiver.

Ware got pressure only a couple of times, and really then only when blocked by the TE.

That's not true. Ware got pressure four times against Chris Samuels, once against a guard-running back double-team, once against a fullback and once when unblocked, in addition to the two plays against the tight end. There were only three times when an offensive tackle sucessfully blocked Ware's pass-rush for any length of time.

First because Julius Peppers and other highly effective pass rushing 4-3 DE's as well as many 3-4 OLB's have to also play against the run, yet they still find ways to get to the QB.

Ware is hampered more by dropping into coverage than by playing the run. And 4-3 defensive ends don't drop into coverage except on an occasional gimmick defense. Ware drops into coverage probably 20 percent of the time, possibly more. (It was 35 percent against Washington.)

And Peppers isn't pressuring quarterbacks any better than Ware has -- when he has been rushing. According to the NFL GameBooks, Ware has four sacks plus eight quarterback hurries this season, for a total of 12, while Peppers has eight sacks and six hurries, a total of 14. (Note that not every time a player gets to the quarterback or hits the quarterback qualifies as a hurry.) Our opponents have run 264 pass plays; the Panthers' opponents have run 287. On how many of those did Peppers NOT rush the passer? Maybe 20 at the most? If so, then he has gotten pressure once every 19.1 rushes. Even if Ware rushed on all but 40 pass plays -- a very conservative estimate, I'm sure -- he would have one pressure every 18.7 rushes. In other words, WHEN Ware rushes, he gets pressure more frequently than Peppers. You can do the same with almost any other pass-rusher -- Ware's success rate when rushing the passer is very comparable, if not better. Ware IS NOT the problem with our pass rush.

 

[Cbz40]

Exactly. The thing some posters don't realize is that it isn't the Cowboys and coaches "selling a bill of goods", it's the media and the personal perception of fans who are overeager to jump on a bandwagon before the player proves he is worthy.

That's not exactly true either.....BP himself said he thought Ware could be the next LT.

I haven't jumped on anyones bandwagon....not even Parcells the BW,but You would hope you could trust a HOF coach when he makes such a statement.

Ware is talented and will be a fine football player but he isn't the pass rusher we were led to believe as Yet anyway.

All I know is we do not get enough pressure on opposing QBs.....either its bad players, bad scheme, bad coaching, or bad talent evaluation. What ever the reason the buck stops at BP.

Maybe if I watch football another 45 years I'll know as much as you do Ernie.
So be patient with all of us mindless wonders.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I thought being a reporter you should know, that its Parcells not Zimmer calling the shots about being aggressive.

Bp has said that himself couple of times during his PCs that Zimmer wanted to get exotic but BP asked him to slow down since he didn't want players to get overwhelmed.

So blame it on Parcells not Zimmer for being aggressive.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Here's the thing, they have blitzed quite a bit in the past few games.

It's not about being exotic with the blitz, it's about disguising the blitz. Zimmer has had problems with his defense's disguising blitzes before Parcells came here.

I agree with BP, I'm not too big into exotic blitzes. But being able to disguise the blitz is a fundamental part of NFL defensive play. And Zimmer's defense's have been extremely weak at disguising blitzes.



YAKUZA

I don't think Zimmer is dumb enough to not disguise his blitzes, it's Parcells

 

[Da Hammer]

We by far have the most vanilla blitz in the NFL. we hardly blitz and when we do we make it so obvious who is blitzing that most of the time it is easily picked up by the OL and RB's. I dont know if its Parcells fault or Zimmer's but that person has to go.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes Parcell's is in control of the defense....but...Zimmer has proven over his years here.....he has no idea how to pressure the QB.

Ware is looking more like Ekuban and Carver everyday.........

he was doing it in '03 until teams figured it out

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Is that a OL blocking Ware or a TE?


dcboy,

I like Ware......but his production on the pass rush is very similar to Ekuban....JMHO tho

except for the fact that Ware can keep his balance when going around the corner

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Open your eyes.

Two of our D-lineman are only blocked by one O-lineman, and Ware is being blocked by a TE. Only Canty really has a 2nd man on him.

Our players aren't good enough to beat a man one on one - not even a TE - and you blame Zimmer.....?

That's just mindless. Regardless of scheme you have to have good pass rushers to have a good pass rush.

and BP whines about the lack of a pass-rush, and names 2 players in particular who need to step it up,CAnty and Spears, and it doesn't look like they are

but it's all Zimmer's fault

 

[bbgun]

Arizona has the worst line in the league. I expect four sacks, minimum.