Belicheat fined 500,000 and draft choices...*Merge*

[peplaw06]

it's obvious that the players knew what was going on, or there would be no need to steal signals

what I'm getting at is, if 1 coach and owner from 1 team is caught cheating, how come it opens up the rest of the league to the same thing, but Vick caught dog-fighting is somehow an isolated event? which is basically what you're saying, it's a contradiction basically

It's called odds and statistics... If 53 NFL players are murderers, and one player is a rapist, which action would you say is more prevalent in the NFL? It's really not as difficult as you're making it.

but again, it's just 1 franchise, that we know of

But one franchise = upwards of 100 people. Vick was ONE person.... out of 1700 (players). One person actions by definition are more isolated than 53+ people's actions.

 

[Cochese]

Jose Canseco has a press conference scheduled for tomorrow!

HaHa!

Anyways, I am sure whoever the pissed off scrub ends up being has a book deal and multiple TV apperances lined up, the only question is which scrub will it be?

 

[cleverusername]

so let me get this straight

people are thinking, "oh, this guy broke the law, but it was only off the field, there's no way he would do anything against the NFL rules"?

Yep, other than the occasional birdie-- but he is a falcon!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't see the big deal. Losing a 1st round pick is huge. I don't care what team you are. Look at how bad the Cowboys were for years having lost two of them in the Joey Galloway trade. There was more to us stinking than that, but it was a HUGE part of it.

Plus 500k is the maximum fine he can get and I don't care who you are, 500k is a lot of cash. It sure as hell isn't "pocket change".

So what if he isn't suspended? I think a friggin first round pick is pretty damn harsh as is.

I love it how people consider 500thou "pocket change" just because that person has alot of money, my dad and my bro-in-law are rich, and they hate needlessly losing money, I remember when I was a kid, and I left a glass behind the wheel of my dad's car, he ran over and boy he was breathing fire because he had to spend money to replace the tire

 

[cleverusername]

HaHa!

Anyways, I am sure whoever the pissed off scrub ends up being has a book deal and multiple TV apperances lined up, the only question is which scrub will it be?

No really I'm serious, here's the link...

http://www.josecanseco.com/index.aspx

 

[peplaw06]

It's just a fundamental difference of opinion and that's not gonna change. You probably think OJ doing Riods and getting caught hurts the NFL more than him murdering two people. As long as it happened off the field it has no direct affect on the NFL. I don't agree with that premiss and never will. Neither do the 32 NFL owners who have a conduct detrimental rule and that seems to be evading your comprehensive powers.

Of course it does. He did it WHILE IN THE NFL!!!

It's much easier to say that "OJ did roids while playing to gain a competitive advantage, therefore other players probably do," than it is to say "OJ killed two people after he had retired, therefore other NFL players are probably murderers."

What do you think is a bigger problem in the NFL? Steroids or players murdering people? This is semi-rhetorical, because I know the answer. but if you want to try to surprise me, by all means, go for it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It's called odds and statistics... If 53 NFL players are murderers, and one player is a rapist, which action would you say is more prevalent in the NFL? It's really not as difficult as you're making it.

lol, and 1 out of 32 is good odds? :laugh2:

But one franchise = upwards of 100 people. Vick was ONE person.... out of 1700 (players). One person actions by definition are more isolated than 53+ people's actions.

we're talking about the league's integrity, I don't think the Pats define that, you would have to include all 32 NFL teams, or more than 1 at least, to make a case that teams cheating is hurting the league's integrity, well more than that of what the 40+ odd players caught breaking the law is doing

so again, if it's possible that more teams are cheating because 1 has been caught doing it, then it's just as possible that there are more players dog-fighting because Vick was caught doing the same

 

[peplaw06]

And you defending law breakers as havng no direct affect on the NFL is, well, what i would expect form a typical lawer and that's why you all have the glorious reputation you now enjoy.

Gotta link?

Never said that.

Not surprised you got that impression.

We all know you can't have an argument without putting words in my mouth.

 

[cleverusername]

HaHa!

Anyways, I am sure whoever the pissed off scrub ends up being has a book deal and multiple TV apperances lined up, the only question is which scrub will it be?

Here's a guy from pats organization thats already talking:


As a former Patriots employee, Jets coach Eric Mangini must have known what was going on. So why didn't he have some kind of system of dummy calls set up to foul up the video surveillance?

"He did," says a former Patriots employee whose name cannot be used for obvious reasons. "He had three sets of signals being given, one real, two dummy. He had the same thing going when he beat the Patriots last year. But still, it means extra work, changing the way you prepare for a game. It means both clubs are not playing on the same level field, and that's what's wrong about it."

I asked the former Patriot, who knows the organization well, if Mangini could in any way be held responsible for being part of a system that encouraged cheating. He paused for a moment to decide how to get this right.
"You have to understand that organization," he said. "You have to understand how incredibly tight the ring is. Information is not just passed around. Even if you might be aware of something, you're not going to know exactly how everything works. Eric was an employee there. He was not privy to every decision. His own operation was clean. Sure, he knew other stuff was going on, but how was he supposed to handle it?
"The amazing thing is the incredible arrogance they showed, coming into Giants Stadium, facing an organization with all those ex-Patriots employees, and still trying to cheat."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html?eref=T1

 

[AbeBeta]

Uh oh, summer. Here's a fan who thinks other teams are probably cheating too

Wonder if Abby thinks that a large contingent of NFL players fighting dogs??

All those malpractice cases are making you a bit testy these days.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Um....referees?

it's possible that refs could bet on games

don't you think that could hurt the league's integrity?

You're getting off track in an attempt to make some indefensible point. People violating the product ON THE FIELD is a bigger black eye to the integrity of the game than people violating the law OFF THE FIELD. (The phrases in caps are incredibly important. Pay special attention to the words "ON" and "off".)

ajklfjadsklfjasdklfjkasdlf

I'm not seperating on from off the field

players who break the law off the field are just as likely to break on-field rules

 

[peplaw06]

lol, and 1 out of 32 is good odds? :laugh2:

Oh good lord... Who said "Good odds?" You guys are really something.

Tell me which odds are BETTER??? 1 out of 32, or 1 out of 1700? Take your time... I'll wait.

1) Start>Accessories>Calculator...

(1/32) x 100 = ??
(1/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?

we're talking about the league's integrity, I don't think the Pats define that, you would have to include all 32 NFL teams, or more than 1 at least, to make a case that teams cheating is hurting the league's integrity, well more than that of what the 40+ odd players caught breaking the law is doing

Start>Accessories>Calculator... punch this one in.

2) (1/32) x 100 = ??
(40/1700) -- hell use (50/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?

so again, if it's possible that more teams are cheating because 1 has been caught doing it, then it's just as possible that there are more players dog-fighting because Vick was caught doing the same

Start>Accessories>Calculator...

repeat step 1)

Which percentage is higher?

 

[peplaw06]

All those malpractice cases are making you a bit testy these days.

You would be shocked how many malpractice suits you get when you are a "professional liar."

 

[AbeBeta]

You would be shocked how many malpractice suits you get when you are a "professional liar."

I was hitting more of the "ambulance chaser" angle -- but a good insult works on so many levels.

 

[peplaw06]

so let me get this straight

people are thinking, "oh, this guy broke the law, but it was only off the field, there's no way he would do anything against the NFL rules"?

most people don't trust criminals w/ anything, that's just a fact of life, and no, no DUI on my record

Well that's new... Not what you've said in the past.

 

[Big Dakota]

Of course it does. He did it WHILE IN THE NFL!!!

It's much easier to say that "OJ did roids while playing to gain a competitive advantage, therefore other players probably do," than it is to say "OJ killed two people after he had retired, therefore other NFL players are probably murderers."

What do you think is a bigger problem in the NFL? Steroids or players murdering people? This is semi-rhetorical, because I know the answer. but if you want to try to surprise me, by all means, go for it.

I meant if was had murdered while in the NFL, but we can use the kid from the Rams as well. Him killing a woman while driving drunk has less affect on the NFL than him using roids? Simple as this. Your NFL is different than mine. Yours is all about stats and this perceived "integrity" of which you speak, which seems to have nothing to do with what kind of men these guys are. Mine is about role models and life lessons and the celebration of sport and how that affects our lives. You should look into the fellowship of Christian athletes, you may learn something. Tom Landry was not your kind of guy, i can tell you that, because he wouldn't agree with your point of view. What these men do and how they carry themselves has the biggest affect on the NFL and it's future.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh good lord... Who said "Good odds?" You guys are really something.

Tell me which odds are BETTER??? 1 out of 32, or 1 out of 1700? Take your time... I'll wait.

1) Start>Accessories>Calculator...

(1/32) x 100 = ??
(1/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?



Start>Accessories>Calculator... punch this one in.

2) (1/32) x 100 = ??
(40/1700) -- hell use (50/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?

Start>Accessories>Calculator...

repeat step 1)

Which percentage is higher?

answer me this

is it possible that more than just Michael Vick has bet on a dog-fight, or attended one, or sponsored a dog?

just like it's possible that more teams than just the Pats were/are cheating?

 

[cleverusername]

Oh good lord... Who said "Good odds?" You guys are really something.

Tell me which odds are BETTER??? 1 out of 32, or 1 out of 1700? Take your time... I'll wait.

1) Start>Accessories>Calculator...

(1/32) x 100 = ??
(1/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?



Start>Accessories>Calculator... punch this one in.

2) (1/32) x 100 = ??
(40/1700) -- hell use (50/1700) x 100 = ??

Which percentage is higher?

Start>Accessories>Calculator...

repeat step 1)

Which percentage is higher?

"Noooo. 5 X 5 is 26....Thats right....carry the nine."

"Kids you need to learn from this and stay in school"

"Thats right. Stay in school, kids"

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well that's new... Not what you've said in the past.

wow, steeping to a new low are you?

 

[peplaw06]

I meant if was had murdered while in the NFL, but we can use the kid from the Rams as well. Him killing a woman while driving drunk has less affect on the NFL than him using roids? Simple as this. Your NFL is different than mine. Yours is all about stats and this perceived "integrity" of which you speak, which seems to have nothing to do with what kind of men these guys are.

Give the hyperbole a rest. I've admitted multiple times in this thread that players breaking the law off the field have an affect on the league. I'm merely comparing the two situations as to which incident is MORE harmful to the league.

To use the Little situation... you have one guy who killed someone while drunk driving. You have multiple guys, hundreds or probably even thousands over the history of the league using steroids. Which is more prevalent?

Mine is about role models and life lessons and the celebration of sport and how that affects our lives. You should look into the fellowship of Christian athletes, you may learn something. Tom Landry was not your kind of guy, i can tell you that, because he wouldn't agree with your point of view.

You have no idea what my point of view is. You constantly put words into my mouth and assume things about me, and 99% of the time they're completely wrong. I was in FCA in high school, so spare me that crap. I went to two private, religious affiliated schools. And if you want to debate religion I can go toe to toe with you on that as well. Politics?? Check out some of my posts in the Political Zone, oughta give you a better idea where I lean. In short... edumacate yourself before you go making wild assumptions.