Best current example for staying with the process

[TNCowboy]

Garrett inherited a 1-7 team. This isn't saying every mediocre coach is a HOF but that talk of changing coaches this year is stupid after 2 years

Garrett helped make that 1-7 team what it was. It's not like he walked in off the street in the middle of the 2010 season. He had a huge had in what he "inherited".

He's been in Dallas 6 years with no real improvement in the offense at all. It's been in decline since 2007. Having said that, he's not the real problem with the organization.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Texans = 1 and done.

Wade Phillips was 13-3 in '07 yet he still sucked.

Don't be fooled.

 

[rcaldw]

Sorry this isn't a great example. Their message board still has a "Fire Kubiak" thread going. Even the best Texans fans think he is the wild card going into the playoffs. I lived there until last year and saw first hand what he did. The guy was always a good OC and their offense clicked but he had questionable in game moves and always hired his Denver connection friends as D coordinators. It wasn't until they were basically told to get Wade as D Coordinator and he drafted guys for that D that he turned it around. Plus you have to realize that Kubiak was like one if only 3-4 coaches in the history of the game that lost his first 5 seasons and was retained so there isn't a real good trend of it working. Wade as basically co-coach turned it around.

You just demonstrated the stupidity of fans. Any fan calling for a coach's firing when the team is 11-2 is an idiot.

 

[goshan]

Completely different situations and a different GM mentality.
Texans were an expansion team building for the future.
Cowboys are/were a team with pockets of talent whose core is aging with a GM mentality to win now - and a lot of people continue to talk about our 'talent'. I have never heard Jerry talk about the 5 year building process.

 

[Hoofbite]

How is Kubiak the best example?

The guy spent years in Denver under Shanny. They won championships when he was there. He cranked out top offenses every year almost and then he went to a team that was a few years old and had nothing.

The guy had 12 years of experience in the NFL, 11 years as a play caller cranking out numerous Top 10 scoring offenses, many of which were lead by the Griese's and Plummer's.

If Kubiak is an example of anything it's hiring a guy with some credentials.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Let's see. Garrett inherited a team that won a playoff game the year before. Kubiak inherited a 2-14 four year old expansion team. Yeah, they won a playoff game and are playing well this year, but let's not act like every mediocre coach goes on to be great.

Garrett inherited a 1-7 team. This isn't saying every mediocre coach is a HOF but that talk of changing coaches this year is stupid after 2 years

You are what your record says you are. Garrett got a 1-7 team.

which promptly went 5-3. Your try to make the Boys of 2010 look like an expansion team is rather ridiculous.

And to this point- what have the Texans won?

And last night they sure looked bad.

So frankly your 'evidence' is shaky

Not an expansion team. That not was what he was saying. But there has been much turnover here.

 

[Miller]

You just demonstrated the stupidity of fans. Any fan calling for a coach's firing when the team is 11-2 is an idiot.

I didn't say it was right. I said its an example of how fans don't trust that guy. It is a bad example, sorry. He had already built top offenses with the Texans and was basically told to hire Wade to improve the D. They were still basically an expansion team when he took over. We are an established organization that had talent here already and it hasn't been utilized at all.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

HoustonFrog and Hoofbite are nailing it. It's a very poor comparison.

And I bet there were Niner fans posting arguments for Singletary before he was canned. I'm sure they really regret getting Harbaugh right now.

 

[Miller]

HoustonFrog and Hoofbite are nailing it. It's a very poor comparison.

And I bet there were Niner fans posting arguments for Singletary before he was canned. I'm sure they really regret getting Harbaugh right now.

Right. And what about the Colts keeping continuity last year since it was probably Manning's injury that made their record so bad? Oh that's right, their new coach and his staff..with a rookie QB..are in the playoff hunt.

 

[Parcells4Life]

HoustonFrog and Hoofbite are nailing it. It's a very poor comparison.

And I bet there were Niner fans posting arguments for Singletary before he was canned. I'm sure they really regret getting Harbaugh right now.

2 completely different situations. Garrett has a winning record! Singletary and Raheem Morris were going 4-12 each year.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Let's see. Garrett inherited a team that won a playoff game the year before.

He inherited a 1-7 team.

The only time I'm for changing coaches after 2 years is if a guy proves completely incompetent (ie 2-14 seasons), a team quits on him or if you have a once in a decade shot at a completely great coach. Changing coaches after 2 years on a coach that will finish 8-8 and 9-7 that's fighting incredibly hard and overcoming a lot of diversity, mainly because you're letting your dumbest and most reactionary fans make a scapegoat out of him, is a surefire way to end up with a franchise in a negative feedback loop. Those same fans are going to find a reason to hate the next coach after 2 years too.

 

[rcaldw]

2 completely different situations. Garrett has a winning record! Singletary and Raheem Morris were going 4-12 each year.

Don't confuse us with facts.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Speaking of facts, the fact is that Singletary never went 4-12 even a single time, much less "each year". He was 18-22 with the Niners.

 

[Parcells4Life]

He had a losing record. Garrett doesn't.

 

[Miller]

Speaking of facts, the fact is that Singletary never went 4-12 even a single time, much less "each year". He was 18-22 with the Niners.

Don't talk truths, you'll get beat down by the self-esteem of InmanRoshi. Afterall, we are just dumb and overreacting to a coach that has been here 6 years, 2 as HC and who has shown nothing in the way of improving offensively in those 6 years..unlike Kubiak or any other outlier they try and compare him to.

Let's see, after taking over a losing team mid-season Singletary went 5-4 to close season and get a job..sound familiar?

Then he went 8-8.

The next year he was fired late-season..a year full of bad luck...with only 5 wins...2 less than we have now.

Yeah, the situations are nothing close at all........(rolling eyes) I'm sure some would have called them stupid and "why fire a HOF that just got us to .500 last year and is building a team."

 

[rcaldw]

Speaking of facts, the fact is that Singletary never went 4-12 even a single time, much less "each year". He was 18-22 with the Niners.

I didn't "fact check".. Good catch. Still a losing record.

 

[TNCowboy]

The record is only part of the equation.

It was obvious from his game management (sound familiar?) and his handling of certain players that Singletary wasn't a good choice.

The 49ers corrected the error and hit a home run with their next hire and are now a legitimate perennial super bowl contender.

Unfortunately, Dallas has no grown ups in the front office to make such an evaluation of Garrett, one way or the other.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Don't talk truths, you'll get beat down by the self-esteem of InmanRoshi. Afterall, we are just dumb and overreacting to a coach that has been here 6 years, 2 as HC and who has shown nothing in the way of improving offensively in those 6 years..unlike Kubiak or any other outlier they try and compare him to.

Let's see, after taking over a losing team mid-season Singletary went 5-4 to close season and get a job..sound familiar?

Then he went 8-8.

The next year he was fired late-season..a year full of bad luck...with only 5 wins...2 less than we have now.

Yeah, the situations are nothing close at all........(rolling eyes) I'm sure some would have called them stupid and "why fire a HOF that just got us to .500 last year and is building a team."

2 less than we have now with 3 games to play.

 

[Miller]

2 less than we have now with 3 games to play.

My point was that their arc and career so far seem pretty similar.

I could turn this the other way and say "look at Tony Dungy." He had 5 straight seasons of .500 or better...better 4 of the seasons...and went to the playoffs multiple times in TB. He was fired after a playoff loss and with a winning record and the team won the SB the next year. You don't know what another coach can do. And I'm not talking about changing for the sake for changing...like with a new coordinator. I'm talking about researching and probing guys like Payton, Gruden and Holmgren. All guys with SBs and good playoff experiences. I'd even still put out feelers to Cowher...won't work but can't hurt.

 

[Idgit]

I think the Kubiak example is a great example to use if you're looking for a defense for keeping Jason Garrett. It's definitely the case that it sometimes takes a head coach time to build the organization he wants, and Kubiak should be commended for the job he's done in HOU. As CL rightly pointed out, there are plenty of counter examples, as well.

You just have to look at the job Garrett's doing and ask yourself if you think the guy deserves another year. Then ask yourself if there's a clear upgrade available--one significant enough that you're willing to scrap the last two years of your plan that's only partially implemented. If there is, you make a move.

It's pretty much the same process you have with players. Only, instead of having proscouts, you have Jerry Jones doing the evaluation. Merry Christmas, everybody.