Bill Parcells on Mike & Mike... Cancelled

[Hostile]

It is easy to forget just how horribly bad things were before Parcells arrived in town.

Parcells put the team on the right track ..., maybe he didn't take the team very far down that track, but he did get the team on the right track.

And that was a huge accomplishment, given how bad things were before he arrived.

No it isn't. I have nightmares about those years. It isn't easy at all.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

When BP came here..his mantra was that "he needed to be able to buy the groceries if he was going to have to cook the meal"..

Dallas gave him carte blanche to do that in all coaching hirings and personel decisions.

He had a 4 year contract and his mission was to get a World Championship by the end of the contract.

He didn't win a single playoff game with the 'meal he cooked'.

While you can certainly point to improvement in the team overall and Jerry jones becoming a better manager because BP was here..

..the bottomline was never met.

BP was paid an exhorbinant amount each season of like $4-5mil/yr. to cook the meal in addition to the incredible amount of money invested in FAs and draftees that never produced for us during BPs reign.

No matter how you cut it..BP failed.

No playoff wins and no Championships in 4+ years.

That's how it gets rated. Not how many players we stockpiled for the future. Not how many players that have gone on to become the core of the present team.


It's about playoff wins and championships.

At this point, Phillips in one year of taking the same team BP had failed with, has taken them at least to an Eastern Division title and 13-3.

Phillips should be given a whole lot more praise than anything BP is given.

Phillips produced.

BP just promised.

Big difference.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin

We have not won a playoff game. Phillips has not produced more, IMO, then did Parcells. I suspect that, eventually, he will but not as yet. To me, BP accomplished way more then Phillips has in Dallas. If you take a good coach and put him on a good team, the results should be great IMO. You take a great coach and put him on a team in cap hell, no talent, old and he builds a team that can be a champion, that's a harder proposition IMO. Phillips has a QB that has learned how to play QB. Parcells really never had that. Phillips had an OL that was very good in place. Parcells never had that in Dallas. Phillips had the luxury of depth on both sides of the ball as well as quality starters. Parcells never had that while he was here. I'm not saying that it is wrong to expect more from Parcells. I think Parcells should have produced more while he was here as well. I'm just saying that I don't believe Phillips has accomplished more, to date. I don't believe Phillips could have been 10-6 in his 1st year with the talent we had in 2002. Just as a reminder, of sorts, here is what our Roster looked like, when Parcells took over.

G/T Flozell Adams
LB Keith Adams
G Larry Allen
CB Jason Bell
LB Jamal Brooks
QB Quincy Carter
DT Randy Chevrier
WR Darrin Chiaverini
LB Dexter Coakley
CB Pat Dennis
S Tony Dixon
T Char-ron Dorsey
CB Mario Edwards
DE Ebenezer Ekuban
DE Greg Ellis
DE Demetric Evans
C/G Ben Fricke
DE Byron Frisch
WR Joey Galloway
G Kelvin Garmon
T Aaron Gibson
LB Orantes Grant
LB Darren Hambrick
RB Troy Hambrick
TE Jackie Harris
DB Duane Hawthorne
K Jon Hilbert
TE Johnny Huggins
WR Raghib Ismail
P Micah Knorr
CB Kareem Larrimore
QB Ryan Leaf
G/C Matt Lehr
TE Mike Lucky
LB Louis Mackey
WR Wane McGarity
DE Dwayne Missouri
DT/DE Michael Myers
LB Dat Nguyen
DT John Nix
DT Brandon Noble
T/G Solomon Page
WR Ken-Yon Rambo
S Izell Reese
S Lynn Scott
K Tim Seder
RB Emmitt Smith
TE Mike Solwold
LB Markus Steele
C Mark Stepnoski
QB Clint Stoerner
WR Reggie Swinton
RB Tony Taylor
S George Teague
FB Robert Thomas
DE Dimitrius Underwood
RB Michael Wiley
WR Randal Williams
RB Terry Witherspoon
S Darren Woodson
QB Anthony Wright
DE Peppi Zellner

 

[Hostile]

I dunno, I see 2 no question about it Hall of Famers (LA & Emmitt), another guy who very well could be (Woody), a couple of very solid contributors to our current team (Flo & Ellis), and a noticeable absent name (Roy). The depth may have stunk, but the cupboard was not completely bare. The bottom line remains, he won more with Campo's roster than he did with his own, Wade won more with his roster than he did, he was overall 2 games over .500, and 0-2 in the post season. It just isn't good enough.

 

[burmafrd]

Of that list I think only 8 are still playing; and only I think 5 are starters and 4 with us (Hotel, Gurode,Williams, Ellis). Not sure if Ekubust is still starting.
We shall see if Bryant cannot screw up his last shot.
On that list really how many good starters were there? Sure you had Allen and Coakley and Dat and Woody. Mario Edwards was ok. Emmitt was pretty much done. The Rocket was done as well. Galloway has been the only guy who has left us and still is a top talent.

 

[burmafrd]

I think 2003 was maybe BP's best year of coaching- he got 10 wins out of a roster that really did not have that kind of talent. I think his 2006 team was the best he had but the critical weakness in the D killed that year.

 

[Zaxor]

Just as a reminder, of sorts, here is what our Roster looked like, when Parcells took over.

<cut a bunch of roster names for brevity>\


can someone first describe what is considered successful first so that we can all get on the same page...

if it is Playoff wins than .....

my take: Bill won as many as Dave

if it is talent aquisition than ...

my take: talent alone has never won anything

if it is restructuring a front office than

my take: That usually isn't in a Head Coaches job description

 

[Zaxor]

I dunno, I see 2 no question about it Hall of Famers (LA & Emmitt), another guy who very well could be (Woody), a couple of very solid contributors to our current team (Flo & Ellis), and a noticeable absent name (Roy). The depth may have stunk, but the cupboard was not completely bare. The bottom line remains, he won more with Campo's roster than he did with his own, Wade won more with his roster than he did, he was overall 2 games over .500, and 0-2 in the post season. It just isn't good enough.

really that is what it comes down to isn't it... Bill got just about everything he asked for and couldn't get the club much over .500

I think his biggest and most lasting influence was/will be in the front office

but that is more GM than HC... I would give him a B- as the GM and a C as HC

 

[theebs]

I dunno, I see 2 no question about it Hall of Famers (LA & Emmitt), another guy who very well could be (Woody), a couple of very solid contributors to our current team (Flo & Ellis), and a noticeable absent name (Roy). The depth may have stunk, but the cupboard was not completely bare. The bottom line remains, he won more with Campo's roster than he did with his own, Wade won more with his roster than he did, he was overall 2 games over .500, and 0-2 in the post season. It just isn't good enough.

I disagree. The cupboard was basically empty. 6 or 7 good players does not make a good team. Throw in the fact that we had no running back or quarterback and umm well the cupboard was completely empty.

emmit never played for parcells and I know you know that I am just saying.

The reason he won more with campo's roster than he did with his own is because in 03 we played maybe the worst collection of quarterbacks you will ever see. Had we played a more difficult schedule that year we probably win 6 games.

Doug Johnson
Kerry Collins
Vinny testaverde
Jeff blake
Mcnabb
joey harrington
brad johnson
patrick ramsey
drew bledsoe
tom brady
jake delhomme
Jay fiedler
mcnabb
patrick ramsey
jessie palmer
Aaron brooks
Jake delhomme.

by my esitmation we beat 3 good qbs all year. Delhomme, bledsoe and mcnabb. Collins is on the border. I think he is a good player some dont.

anyway. I have always attributed the extremely poor quality of qbs and running backs we played against in 03 to the success of that team above all else, not jerry or bill or quincy or zimmer, just extremely poor qb play on the other side of the field.

I wish parcells had torn it down sooner rather waiting till 05. 03 or 04 were the years to do that, but it doesnt matter now. 04 really put the nail in the coffin and allowed this team to start a new era of football, essentially from scratch!

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Bill's a turnaround specialist now. He seeks out the biggest messes, cleans them up, and leaves.

But that doesn't take amazing talent. All you have to do is not be a total frick-up. I honestly think a few guys on here could do better than what the last bumbling GM did.

It's almost like taking a horribly mismanaged investment portfolio and putting everything into index funds. Sure, you're no longer going to underperform. But you also aren't going to be the best, either.

 

[Chief]

Parcells may still be on the Rome Show.

We'll find out in about a half-hour if he canceled that one, too.

 

[superpunk]

Bill's a turnaround specialist now. He seeks out the biggest messes, cleans them up, and leaves.

But that doesn't take amazing talent. All you have to do is not be a total frick-up. I honestly think a few guys on here could do better than what the last bumbling GM did.

This explains why teams like Arizona, Detroit and Oakland and others have been able to turn things around so quickly. All it takes is cap space and a second grade education to turn a franchise around.

 

[Chief]

Parcells' greatest accomplishment in Dallas was making Larry Lacewell uncomfortable enough to leave Valley Ranch.

Parcells should get a street named after him for that.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This explains why teams like Arizona, Detroit and Oakland and others have been able to turn things around so quickly. All it takes is cap space and a second grade education to turn a franchise around.

No, you can't hire an idiot GM (or be one yourself in the case of Crazy Al) and expect to get any results.

Doesn't mean that plenty of others couldn't do it, though.

 

[JakeCamp12]

Parcells' greatest accomplishment in Dallas was making Larry Lacewell uncomfortable enough to leave Valley Ranch.

Parcells should get a street named after him for that.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Sorry to poke my head in, but better and more important have nowhere near the same meaning. Even as it pertains to this conversation, Bill thought that Ware was the better player but that he was not the more important piece to the puzzle. Two completely different meanings.

I understand that it is what you meant, though. If the conversation is if Ware would or would not be a Cowboy, you are right. If the conversation is better is a semantics step away from more important, then you are not. Bad choice of word and we have all done it. Not a big deal.

thank you

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Wait a minute.

You told us a couple of days ago that Carpenter was this underrated player who hasn't gotten a fair shake and was the "best player on the field" in the playoff game at Seattle two years ago.

Now, you list him among Parcells' poor draft choices.

oops lol

 

[Hostile]

I disagree. The cupboard was basically empty. 6 or 7 good players does not make a good team. Throw in the fact that we had no running back or quarterback and umm well the cupboard was completely empty.

emmit never played for parcells and I know you know that I am just saying.

His choice on this though. He was so neurotic about being the face of the team that he couldn't do whatever it took to keep Emmitt over Hambone.

Remember, no stars on this team? Then once we started acquiring stars he started losing interest.

The reason he won more with campo's roster than he did with his own is because in 03 we played maybe the worst collection of quarterbacks you will ever see. Had we played a more difficult schedule that year we probably win 6 games.

Doug Johnson
Kerry Collins
Vinny testaverde
Jeff blake
Mcnabb
joey harrington
brad johnson
patrick ramsey
drew bledsoe
tom brady
jake delhomme
Jay fiedler
mcnabb
patrick ramsey
jessie palmer
Aaron brooks
Jake delhomme.

by my esitmation we beat 3 good qbs all year. Delhomme, bledsoe and mcnabb. Collins is on the border. I think he is a good player some dont.

anyway. I have always attributed the extremely poor quality of qbs and running backs we played against in 03 to the success of that team above all else, not jerry or bill or quincy or zimmer, just extremely poor qb play on the other side of the field.

That is as fair an assessment as I have seen to explain the success of 2003. I will concede this point to you with a tip of my hat for thinking of it.

I wish parcells had torn it down sooner rather waiting till 05. 03 or 04 were the years to do that, but it doesnt matter now. 04 really put the nail in the coffin and allowed this team to start a new era of football, essentially from scratch!

I do too, but again much of that was his choice. I don't believe Jerry ever denied him anything he wanted. Most of all I still can't get the 2006 playoff loss out of my craw. I just consider it a stupid game plan not to attack that depleted secondary until they rolled over and played dead. The players constantly begged him to take the brakes off and every time we did the team responded, and he would immediately get neurotic and slam on the breaks again.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, you can't hire an idiot GM (or be one yourself in the case of Crazy Al) and expect to get any results.

Doesn't mean that plenty of others couldn't do it, though.

that's why only he has done it 4 times in NFL history

 

[Bob Sacamano]

His choice on this though. He was so neurotic about being the face of the team that he couldn't do whatever it took to keep Emmitt over Hambone.

as I remember it, he said he left that decision up to Jerry

and Emmitt was slated to cost something like 10 mil against the salary cap that year

Remember, no stars on this team? Then once we started acquiring stars he started losing interest.

no stars as in no primmadonnas

he had no problem w/ the Lawrence Taylor's of the world

 

[Chocolate Lab]

that's why only he has done it 4 times in NFL history

Done what?