Bill Parcells on Mike & Mike... Cancelled

[Hostile]

Do you mind at all that you've identified with Terrell Owens opinion on whether a head coach is "in touch" with his players, when that opinion appears to be completely opposed to the opinions of guys like Tony Romo and Terrence Newman, who speak glowingly of the old man?

I would. As I said before, I guess Mooch and Reid were out of touch, too. Terrell Owens has been a great teammate and a great player here - but he's the last guy I'd ask for an opinion of how "in touch" his head coach is with the players. There are many times when I'm not quite sure Owens is in touch with this planet.

No, I don't. I used Owens because he did.

I still think he is a great coach. I just think he was playing games within the game here and it tripped him up. I think he took the Miami job to be in total power so he can directly show Jerry "what might have been."

I just don't care for that.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Maybe I misunderstood your "it's so easy a caveman could do it" post - but I don't see how I could.

I guess you did, because you seem to think "it doesn't take amazing talent" equals "so easy a caveman can do it"... As if there's nothing in between.

And once more, I'm talking about taking a complete cluster of a team like the Dolphins have been (a second for AJ Feeley? Ted Ginn #9 overall?) and making them average to above average again. No, I don't think it would take amazing talent to do that. A competent person given a few years could do that, IMO.

 

[superpunk]

No, I don't.

That is certainly your prerogative.

I put much more credence in the glowing words of guys with the squeaky-clean team-first reputation of Terrence Newman and Tony Romo. I don't doubt TO didn't like him, and Parcells dealt poorly with him. But that doesn't mean TO's assessment of how in touch a coach is has any weight. If it does, that's pretty damning for Mooch and Reid, too, I suppose.

 

[Hostile]

That is certainly your prerogative.

I put much more credence in the glowing words of guys with the squeaky-clean team-first reputation of Terrence Newman and Tony Romo. I don't doubt TO didn't like him, and Parcells dealt poorly with him. But that doesn't mean TO's assessment of how in touch a coach is has any weight. If it does, that's pretty damning for Mooch and Reid, too, I suppose.

Had he used those guys I would have responded in kind. Not sure why that's hard to grasp.

 

[superpunk]

I guess you did, because you seem to think "it doesn't take amazing talent" equals "so easy a caveman can do it"... As if there's nothing in between.

And once more, I'm talking about taking a complete cluster of a team like the Dolphins have been (a second for AJ Feeley? Ted Ginn #9 overall?) and making them average to above average again. No, I don't think it would take amazing talent to do that if a competent person had a few years to do it.

Let me know where you want to set the goalposts, once you decide. "All it takes is not being a total frick-up" certainly sounds to me like as long as you have a pulse, a mild understanding of algebra and a calculator you can be a successful GM in the NFL. Now we've moved to someone who is "competent and had a few years to do it." I'm not sure what your point is, or if there even is one - but if it's "being a GM for a horrible team is an easy job - anyone could do it", then I think you probably want to abandon that line of thinking.

 

[superpunk]

Had he used those guys I would have responded in kind. Not sure why that's hard to grasp.

There's nothing hard about it at all. But when I look on two sides of this particular issue, and on one there is Terrell Owens, and on the other you have Tony Romo and Terrence Newman, then I know which side I intend to agree with. You've decided to believe the side that has had problems with every head coach he's ever played with. That's your choice.

 

[InmanRoshi]

It's amazing to me how simple people think turning around a bad franchise is. Lots of different coaches have built great teams. Lots of different coaches have won multiple Superbowls with the same team. No one has ever won Superbowls with two different franchises. Guys who have multiple Superbowl Rings have tried and failed, that's how hard it is. Jimmy Johnson didn't do it with Miami. Belichick didn't do it with Cleveland. Lombardi didn't do it with the Commanders. Even the great Bill Walsh couldn't even do it in a lower level of competition in college. Turning around a franchise is about the hardest thing to do in professional sports. It's not just talent aquisition, it's getting 53 players and their individual egos (and your coaching staff) to buy into what you're selling and headed in the same direction. Even with all of Jimmy Johnson's rings and accomplishments in Dallas, Dan Marino was having none of what he was selling when he went to the Dolphins and said "We're taking the ball out of the QB's hands and we're becoming a ground control, defensive oriented team." (I guess Jimmy was just being pigheaded and stupid by wanting to do it his way instead of just kowtowing to a player like Marino).

After you've turned it around, then the easy work begins. The team almost becomes self motorized. Your veteran players should almost do all the work for you. You have a core group of veterans who have already bought into the system and know it like the back of their hand. They instill it into the 6-10 new faces that come onto the lockerroom a year (in the pre free agency old days it was more like 3-5), and you just repeat the cycle year after year after year as players come and go. And by this point, as far as being a GM goes, you don't have to rehaul talent you just have to tweak. The house is built, now you're just adding new patio or kitchen cabinets. That's what's almost tragic about the way Jerry and Switzer handled the team in the mid-90's .. they veered the car into the ditch so quickly. They went from dynasty to 6-10 in two years. You almost have to intentionally try to mess something up badly. I'm not sure you can even accomplish it through sheer incompetence.


Another key aspect that goes into building a great team that no one talks about is blind luck, but it does play a part. Sometimes things have to break your way that you can't plan for or reproduce. If Bill Belichick quits his job to run the Rams, he can't just walk into the Rams front office and say "The first thing we need to do is find another Tom Brady in the 6th round." Just like Jimmy Johnson couldn't walk into the Dolphins and say "The first thing we do to build this team is make another Herchel Walker trade." They might have been smart enough to take advantage of the opportunity, but it was sheer blind luck that the opportunity ever presented itself in the first place. You can't replicate luck and fit it into a formula. You also need "luck" in that sometimes you just got to stick with it until it's your year, just like Dungy and Cowher did. Parcells never just "sticks around" to reap the rewards of what he's built and wait until it's his year. He only got to enjoy a handfull of games of Tony Romo after investing 3 years of time and patience into him. No one has the "foolproof formula" for getting a franchise off the ground, but when you take into account the number of franchises he's turned around and the teams his coaching tree have turned around, only Walsh could even rival Parcells for having the most proven successful formula. That's why he's a no-brainer, first ballot Hall of Famer.

 

[Hostile]

There's nothing hard about it at all. But when I look on two sides of this particular issue, and on one there is Terrell Owens, and on the other you have Tony Romo and Terrence Newman, then I know which side I intend to agree with. You've decided to believe the side that has had problems with every head coach he's ever played with. That's your choice.

Oh brother.

Parcells walked on water.

I hope this absolves me of all current and future guilt for not being satisfied with the results he had here. Maybe as the post above suggests, he was just unlucky. Maybe that's a better reason for me to be glad he's gone. Maybe I shouldn't hope for good luck either. That might be disloyal to him too.

Forget I speculated that.

 

[InmanRoshi]

There's nothing hard about it at all. But when I look on two sides of this particular issue, and on one there is Terrell Owens, and on the other you have Tony Romo and Terrence Newman, then I know which side I intend to agree with. You've decided to believe the side that has had problems with every head coach he's ever played with. That's your choice.

And former players have weighed in too.

Guys like Troy Aikman and Moose Johnston have gone on record saying they would have loved to play under Coach Parcells. Darren Woodson said he loved playing for coach Parcells. Meanwhile, former players like Deion Sanders and Nate Newton have gone on record saying they would have hated playing for Parcells.

It seems like if you're a tireless worker, a believer in self discipline and have the idea that no individual is bigger than greater good you would have loved playing for Coach Parcells.

If you like to balloon up to 400 lbs. in the offseason, drive around with hundreds of pounds of pot in a van repeatedly or nickname yourself "Primetime" and make rap videos, you might have not liked playing for him too much.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[superpunk]

Oh brother.

Parcells walked on water.

I hope this absolves me of all current and future guilt for not being satisfied with the results he had here.

This is a cop-out.

 

[Hostile]

This is a cop-out.

No, it's sarcasm since you refuse to get it.

 

[superpunk]

No, it's sarcasm since you refuse to get it.

I know what sarcasm is, and I know what a cop-out is - your post was a sarcastic cop-out.

Compromise is a good thing.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

but do both of you know what primary means?

 

[Kilyin]

Do you mind at all that you've identified with Terrell Owens opinion on whether a head coach is "in touch" with his players, when that opinion appears to be completely opposed to the opinions of guys like Tony Romo and Terrence Newman, who speak glowingly of the old man?

Or maybe Romo and Newman don't believe in publically throwing someone under the bus. So of course they're going to say the politically correct thing to the media. Owens, on the other hand, will just say whatever is is on his mind without thinking about the consequences.

 

[Hostile]

I know what sarcasm is, and I know what a cop-out is - your post was a sarcastic cop-out.

Compromise is a good thing.

I'd be glad to keep discussing the topic, so it isn't a cop out. You specifically asked me a motive and I responded. You chose to ignore the reason for the response and create an alternate scenario upon which I haven't been discussing at all.

Instead just come out and ask me. I never duck a question. But when it is obvious my answers are just going to be ignored and the same mantra repeated over and over, I tend to get sarcastic.

If that's a cop out in your opinion, so be it.

 

[theebs]

Him not being okay with Owens is proof that maybe the original premise of the thread is exactly right, Owens said he was "out of touch."

He replaced a FOB here in Keyshawn Johnson and it gnawed at him. I personally find that to not be about the team very much and I don't respect it. Similar to his refusal to bench Bledsoe until it was staring him squarely in the face. Too attached to his players and his ways. I.E., out of touch.

First off, you have to put a meaning to out of touch. Does it mean that in touch coaches have to let their players run around and do what they want all year?

Parcells first and best quality is his discipline and how he implements that on a team. It starts with weight training in the offseason and then into mini and training camps.

Owens didnt exactly go out of his way to take part in that in 06. THen he made a mockery of being out of practice by wearing that armstrong jersey and goofing around on the bike. Parcells was in charge then and owens flaunted his ability to do what he wants. How would parcells or any coach of that ilk embrace that attitude. I certainly wouldnt, it would make me insanse if I was trying to get 80 guys to bust their humps twice a day and set an example for younger players and then have Elvis in the corner goofing off.

Owens was sold to parcells as the hardest working guy on the team who had issues with money, not hard work and football work. then he proceeded to not comply with that basically the whole spring and summer.

Bill Parcells was the head coach in 2006 and the man in charge. Everybody around the league knows exactly who parcells is and how he operates. Even a guy like marcellus wiley who didnt like parcells worked hard for him and respected him because his way works. Terrell Owens did not have to sign a contract with the Dallas Cowboys if he didnt want to. He did in 2006, a year where Bill Parcells was in charge.

For owens to out of the blue in june of 08 take a pot shot at owens is pretty low rent. As I said in another post all he needs to do is go a few lockers over and ask jay ratliff, t-new, romo, chris canty etc. how in touch he is.

Anyone who has ever worked for or played a sport for a guy who's whole ideal is built on Discipline and hard work knows you can not flaunt the I am bigger attitude in their face and expect a good relationship.

Hell, look at keith davis. He was cut and brought back and got into more trouble and was still kept because he worked his tail off, he did little things and he put the team first not to mention he was always their to workout and practice and he always played at the same intensity level. He is in miami for that reason now. Think Keith Davis thinks parcells is out of touch?

Its a foolish comment at an unneccessary time from a guy who has no right to say it. Its in owens best intrests to never bring parcells up and take shots at him. Its something arrogant ricks with a P who are cowtow'd to instead of being treated like everyone else would say, people like deion sanders for instance.

When someone else who has the respect of everyone says this about parcells maybe it will hold weight until then it is just a talking point people like jaimie dukes, T.Owens, D. sanders use. Its foolish, unneccessary and untrue.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

First off, you have to put a meaning to out of touch.

with how to deal w/ present players

it's obvious that people who don't want a coach riding them, TO for example, who takes it as a personal affront, won't get along w/ Parcells, which seems this league is full of those types nowadays

in a sense, TO is right, this generation of NFL players is kind of soft, where they're used to being coddled by coaches, and Bill is of the old school, so he's bound to clash w/ alot of them

 

[superpunk]

Or maybe Romo and Newman don't believe in publically throwing someone under the bus. So of course they're going to say the politically correct thing to the media. Owens, on the other hand, will just say whatever is is on his mind without thinking about the consequences.

That's a stretch and a half.

I'd be glad to keep discussing the topic, so it isn't a cop out. You specifically asked me a motive and I responded. You chose to ignore the reason for the response and create an alternate scenario upon which I haven't been discussing at all.

Instead just come out and ask me. I never duck a question. But when it is obvious my answers are just going to be ignored and the same mantra repeated over and over, I tend to get sarcastic.

If that's a cop out in your opinion, so be it.

I didn't ask for any motive. I asked if you minded identifying with Owens - whose position is diametrically opposed to Romo's and Newman's - real team guys, hard workers, no character questions ever.

You don't mind identifying with Owens position at all, apparently.

That's fine. No cop-out was necessary after I came to that conclusion the first time.

 

[Kilyin]

So now Owens isn't a hard worker, not a team player, and has character issues.

 

[theebs]

with how to deal w/ present players

it's obvious that people who don't want a coach riding them, TO for example, who takes it as a personal affront, won't get along w/ Parcells, which seems this league is full of those types nowadays

in a sense, TO is right, this generation of NFL players is kind of soft, where they're used to being coddled by coaches, and Bill is of the old school, so he's bound to clash w/ alot of them

How in the world does mike holmgren, jon gruden, andy reid, bill cowher, tom coughlin, bill belichick, jeff fisher and mike nolan get 53 guys to listen to them?

Something tells me they are out of touch too, except that only one of them has had to deal with this particular type of player, andy reid. That worked out well too.

ITs a farce, everyone knows it but many like to find every spot they can pile onto parcells and attack him. I get why people wouldnt like parcells, especially in the south but this out of touch thing is just silly.

Lawrence taylor would have told you parcells was out of touch in 82. Except he worked hard and parcells was his position coach and he knew what to expect. Worked out ok for the two of them.

Its not a time period or changing of the players. Its players who are celebrities outside of the white lines who get upset when people who dont have to cater to them treat them the way the rest get treated. These celebrity players all are surrounded by so many enablers that there is no way they would or will ever fall in line.

Tiki barber had his best seasons under tom coughlin but his ego was hurt and he had to constantly cry to the media about how he superstar tiki barber was treated. How did that turn out. When tiki left the team had hard workers who had no problems last year doing the hard work and in the end look at the result. The cry baby voice was gone and the zooming in on that coaching style left. Coughlin was being played as a nice guy when in reality no one was challenging his authority and in turn the teams concentration lied in other areas. A certain work ethic is mandatory and when people want to step outside of that and then complain they really have no right to complain.

just my two cents.