Billy Turner Tackle North Dakota State visiting 4/9/14

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dozier and Cooper... agility... same sentence?

It would be Grammatically incorrect if it were not.

 

[xwalker]

Dozier and Cooper... agility... same sentence?

Cooper's on-field quickness/agility was as good as it gets at OG, IMO.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

Cooper's on-field quickness/agility was as good as it gets at OG, IMO.

Exactly. He sets the standard. So if we're going to compare an OG's agility to Cooper's, let's at least shoot a little higher than Dozier.

 

[starfrombirth]

Billy Turner | Tackle
Team: North Dakota State Bison
Age / DOB: (22) / 10/17/1991
Ht / Wt: 6'6' / 314

LATEST NEWS
RECENT NEWS
North Dakota State OL Billy Turner visited the Bucs on Monday, and has upcoming visits scheduled with the Cowboys, Panthers, Rams, Vikings, and Dolphins, reports NFL.com's Gil Brandt.
According to the venerable Brandt, Turner will take in Dallas on April 9 and again on the 15th, Carolina on April 11 and again on the 22nd, St. Louis on April 16, Minnesota on April 17 and Miami on April 23. The Bisons' mauler had reportedly already met with the Cowboys, Bucs, Panthers and Vikings, so those organizations appear to be particularly interested in his services. Apr 7 - 6:26 PM

I used draft break down.com (Thanks DanTheMan) http://draftbreakdown.com/video/billy-turner-vs-kansas-state-2013/ and what I saw was a strong man with no explosion off the snap. He did well against his level of competition standing/pushing his man back and slipping to the 2nd level. I never saw him get beat for the sack in these clips so I have to believe he is at least adequate in the passing game. His slow feet dont translate to tackle in the NFL tho (can you teach quicker feet?). His strength however, makes me think of guard with the ability to be a swing tackle in the event of injury. To all of you with more experience than me, how did I do?

 

[starfrombirth]

Are there many successful zone blocking guards at 6'6"?

If you watch his clips, it looks like he plays mostly in a zone blocking scheme except when he pulls.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Exactly. He sets the standard. So if we're going to compare an OG's agility to Cooper's, let's at least shoot a little higher than Dozier.

Well, WE didn't compare him to Cooper. Scouts compared his agility to that of Cooper. That, to me, does not suggest that he is immobile or slow. You said this:

"Dozier I couldn't justify a 3rd for, because when you combine the low level of competition with the lack of movement skills, I'm sure there will be others there I prefer."

That doesn't track with what I've heard or seen from this kid.

This is from the East/West Game:

Dakota Dozier, G, Furman
Dozier played left tackle at Furman, but he did a very nice job as a guard this week and that is where he best projects at the next level. He has quick feet, excellent balance and strong hands. In the run game, he was able to generate movement at the point of attack. In the passing game he was an easy mover and didn't have much trouble anchoring down against power rushers or redirecting versus quicker opponents. I wouldn't be surprised if he landed somewhere in the third round of the 2014 NFL Draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...lo-was-biggest-winner-at-eastwest-shrine-game


Well-proportioned, athletic-looking, muscular frame. Exhibits light feet, a fluid kick-slide, and is a natural bender. Gets good arm extension to keep defenders out of his chest, and utilizes his lower half well to establish leverage on contact and absorb the power rush. Quick off the snap as a run blocker, and gets off the line and into the hole swiftly when asked to trap or pull.

Can break down and change direction rapidly and exhibits impressive body control to maintain balance in tight spaces, particularly when firing through the line to the second level.

COMPARES TO: Jonathan Cooper, Guard, Arizona Cardinals - Dozier's "plus" athleticism and movement skills are extremely impressive for a big man,

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1687575/dakota-dozier


Nowhere have I read that he is a none athletic player. What I've watched does not suggest that either.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

OK cool, you site a report, which I appreciate and will consider. I'm completely baffled how anyone who watches Dozier could even be reminded of Cooper, but that's why this is an art, not a science. For the record, I don't believe he is entirely unathletic. I agreed with another poster that his movement skills are better than Cyril Richardson and Gabe Jackson.

Where would you personally rate Dozier v. some of the other top OG's?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK cool, you site a report, which I appreciate and will consider. I'm completely baffled how anyone who watches Dozier could even be reminded of Cooper, but that's why this is an art, not a science. For the record, I don't believe he is entirely unathletic. I agreed with another poster that his movement skills are better than Cyril Richardson and Gabe Jackson.

Where would you personally rate Dozier v. some of the other top OG's?

Athletically, I'd say he is probably right behind Xavier and Martin (assuming you play Martin at Guard).

 

[xwalker]

I used draft break down.com (Thanks DanTheMan) http://draftbreakdown.com/video/billy-turner-vs-kansas-state-2013/ and what I saw was a strong man with no explosion off the snap. He did well against his level of competition standing/pushing his man back and slipping to the 2nd level. I never saw him get beat for the sack in these clips so I have to believe he is at least adequate in the passing game. His slow feet dont translate to tackle in the NFL tho (can you teach quicker feet?). His strength however, makes me think of guard with the ability to be a swing tackle in the event of injury. To all of you with more experience than me, how did I do?

You must be watching the wrong player.

 

[starfrombirth]

You must be watching the wrong player.

#77 yes?
Like I said, maybe it's my untrained eye. I've just started watching these guys with an individual analysis so I don't have a broad comparison. This is just the impression I got upon initial looks. Thanks for the input tho

 

[CowboysLaw87]

Watched more Billy Turner this morning. Man, I really like his on-field demeanor and athletic upside. Feel like someone like Martin is clearly more technically sound, and is the safer pick, but I think Turner could be the better player down the road. Doubt he lasts to the middle of R3 for us.

 

[xwalker]

#77 yes?
Like I said, maybe it's my untrained eye. I've just started watching these guys with an individual analysis so I don't have a broad comparison. This is just the impression I got upon initial looks. Thanks for the input tho

I have no idea how you came to those conclusions. Maybe you should try analyzing another OL and we'll see how that goes.

 

[starfrombirth]

I have no idea how you came to those conclusions. Maybe you should try analyzing another OL and we'll see how that goes.

Ok. I looked at Greg Robinson and Taylor Lewan, 2 of the consesus top linemen in this draft. Of the bunch I thought Robinson had by far the quickest feet keeping his feet under him to produce great explosion and push. Lewan seemed to me to do a better job of pass protecting and still quick footed, better than Turner but not as quick as Robinson. It's hard to compare apples-apples tho because of the massive disparity in competition. All in all, I stand by my analysis that Turners best position is at guard but could be serviceable at tackle. I'm ok with people disagreeing. People disagree with everyone even people who get paid to do it for a living I'd be glad to read other peoples analysis tho.

 

[xwalker]

Ok. I looked at Greg Robinson and Taylor Lewan, 2 of the consesus top linemen in this draft. Of the bunch I thought Robinson had by far the quickest feet keeping his feet under him to produce great explosion and push. Lewan seemed to me to do a better job of pass protecting and still quick footed, better than Turner but not as quick as Robinson. It's hard to compare apples-apples tho because of the massive disparity in competition. All in all, I stand by my analysis that Turners best position is at guard but could be serviceable at tackle. I'm ok with people disagreeing. People disagree with everyone even people who get paid to do it for a living I'd be glad to read other peoples analysis tho.

It's not difficult to evaluate Robinson. He's a dominant freak of nature. He has Tyron Smith type athleticism at 332 lbs and incredible strength. You're not going to find many Pro Bowl NFL players that compare well to what Robinson did in college.

Try analyzing a guy like Antonio Richardson.

 

[Idgit]

The good thing is that looking at the other teams that have had him in speaks well of his potential. Unlike Arkin who no one cared about except us.

arkin just needs more time to develop

he will be a great OL one day

our starting OL could have been arkin/costa/killer kowalski, we just didnt give it enough time

T Fred is a "progress stopper"

I literally remember nobody being high on Arkin around here, but he was signed off of our practice squad by another team last year, wasn't he?

And, visionary, at some point are you ever going to criticize arguments that were ever actually made, rather than the ones that you've made up to make your other positions sound more believable in retrospect? Because the pretend argument thing just isn't very convincing to anybody.

 

[xwalker]

I literally remember nobody being high on Arkin around here, but he was signed off of our practice squad by another team last year, wasn't he?

And, visionary, at some point are you ever going to criticize arguments that were ever actually made, rather than the ones that you've made up to make your other positions sound more believable in retrospect? Because the pretend argument thing just isn't very convincing to anybody.

They cut Arkin and he signed with Miami.

 

[starfrombirth]

It's not difficult to evaluate Robinson. He's a dominant freak of nature. He has Tyron Smith type athleticism at 332 lbs and incredible strength. You're not going to find many Pro Bowl NFL players that compare well to what Robinson did in college.

Try analyzing a guy like Antonio Richardson.

Ok... so i went and watched tape on Antonio and my analysis is thus: Quicker feet than Turner and even Lewan (barely) but doesn't play with as much power as either of them. Does a good job of standing his man up in pass protection and staying locked onto his man. He does a good job of drive blocking on runs but not as strong again as Turner or Lewan. In all I would say his ceiling is higher than Turner but not Lewan because he can get stronger and if he can be coached to keep his balance better then I think he could be really good. I still don't know if you can teach quicker feet tho. I think he projects to tackle better than Turner but not guard. He is not as good as Lewan in either category as Lewan already has quick feet and will get bigger and stronger in an NFL weight room as well. All in all a good prospect though. I would take him in the 3rd and be happy with the pick. My first two picks this year are best dline prospect available .... no matter what. It's too big a need unless we are willing to not be competitive this year, which I can understand, and are just looking to build going forward.

 

[RS12]

I literally remember nobody being high on Arkin around here, but he was signed off of our practice squad by another team last year, wasn't he?

And, visionary, at some point are you ever going to criticize arguments that were ever actually made, rather than the ones that you've made up to make your other positions sound more believable in retrospect? Because the pretend argument thing just isn't very convincing to anybody.

I remember a few being high Arkin including the guy who had the Brad Pitt avatar.

 

[burmafrd]

I remember a few being high Arkin including the guy who had the Brad Pitt avatar.

idgit always has a convenient memory. There were more than a few pumping Arkin. And idgit thinks someone signing a guy to their practice squad means something.

 

[Idgit]

idgit always has a convenient memory. There were more than a few pumping Arkin. And idgit thinks someone signing a guy to their practice squad means something.

It means somebody else wanted him, which addressed your incorrect statement directly, burm, though you won't admit it or correct yourself. And it was to their active roster from our practice squad, which is different.

Re Arkin, I said I didn't remember it, not that it didn't happen, though nothing RS12 said jogged my memory. Arkin certainly wasn't a fan favorite around here as it was obvious from the get go he wasn't very strong for his position.

As to my memory, I'll stack it up against yours any day. It's possible I don't remember stuff now and then, but at least I'm not guilty of revising history when my complaining turns out to have been nothing but empty fabricated criticism.