Bitcoin. Any experts/owners?

[Reality]

I just bought some more crypto this morning...market falls just mean discounts

But low, sell high .. old adages never die

There are tons of ways around the tax portion. But the goal is for places to accept it as payment and skip the government altogether.

It's not nearly as anonymous as most people think it is.

Microsoft, Subway, Overstock.com, Newegg, etc. are places that you can buy stuff with bitcoin, for example.

When a crypto-currency starts becoming a common currency, governments will regulate it by regulating every way you can turn it into cash whether that's transfers, withdrawals or paying for coffee at Starbucks.

 

[Reality]

Down to $11,600 now .. 24 hour volume has gone from averaging around $2.4 billion to $4.1 billion. If the large investors are cashing out, that's going to create a huge decrease in volume after the first of the year when demand drops. However, if it's most regular people cashing out, the large investors will continue their manipulation buy/sell tactics to help it recover.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

But low, sell high .. old adages never die


It's not nearly as anonymous as most people think it is.


When a crypto-currency starts becoming a common currency, governments will regulate it by regulating every way you can turn it into cash whether that's transfers, withdrawals or paying for coffee at Starbucks.

Certainly.

This why my only holdings right now are cryptos that are already approved by governments and in use by banks

 

[Reality]

There are a few possible scenarios going on right now with bitcoin ..

It could just be average people cashing out for year-end reasons.

It could be that large investors are cashing out for year-end reasons and have no intention of returning to bitcoin and/or are moving on to other crypto-currencies that are trading much lower.

It could be that large investors are worried that the high price of bitcoins is going to cause more governments to get involved in not only regulating it going forward, but maybe even retroactively, which means getting out before the end of the year might protect them in 2018 from that.

It could also be large investors are purposely cashing out to drive down the price, then they plan to re-invest again soon at a much lower rate and the price rebounds due to trade volume (demand) making them quite a bit of money.

 

[Rockport]

Yes.

I work in software, have actively invested for about 6 months. Been following for a few years, didn't really feel comfortable until ~8 months ago, paper traded for a few months.

It's not going anywhere. Bitcoin, itself, is inefficient but the market has determined it a new store of value. There won't be any serious technology built on "Bitcoin" itself.

The future is the thought process when the creator created Bitcoin itself. Crowdsourcing decentralization in every aspect. And that's where technology is headed, as well as being a logical next step in our technological advancement.

It's becoming a soft of arms race, with different tokens representing different use cases, developed in different areas of the world. It's quite fascinating.

Just for the record, since investing, I have net more profit in 6 months than I have in 18 months as a software engineer, and that number is increasing as my investments grow. I plan to take a hiatus from my "professional" life for 6-12 months and trade full-time. After that, I'll see where my interests take me.

Since this has gone mainstream to the extent it has, it has undoubtedly created an investment bubble. The technology isn't going anywhere, but you have 50 year old housemoms investing now. That's usually a sign.

I predicted a $1 trillion market cap in cryptocurrencies in late July when the market was around $100 billion total, I was laughed at by some of the higher ups in the space. Now it's accelerating beyond even my expectations. I expect 2-3$ trillion in 2018, and will be planning an exit as it creeps higher.

The money was attractive to me, obviously, but the main reason I got interested in this space was because of the technology. There are so many interesting projects that I've spent entire nights reading about them. It's a little disappointing that all this new money coming only cares about one thing, "gains", and maybe 1 out of 20 can tell you anything about the actual tech or competition in those spaces.

Oh well.

I hope you sold recently. It’s dropping like a rock today.

 

[Rockport]

There are a few possible scenarios going on right now with bitcoin ..

It could just be average people cashing out for year-end reasons.

It could be that large investors are cashing out for year-end reasons and have no intention of returning to bitcoin and/or are moving on to other crypto-currencies that are trading much lower.

It could be that large investors are worried that the high price of bitcoins is going to cause more governments to get involved in not only regulating it going forward, but maybe even retroactively, which means getting out before the end of the year might protect them in 2018 from that.

It could also be large investors are purposely cashing out to drive down the price, then they plan to re-invest again soon at a much lower rate and the price rebounds due to trade volume (demand) making them quite a bit of money.

Whatever the reason, it’s 1/3 down.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Bitcoin Plunges Below $13,000 as Selloff Enters Day 4

http://fortune.com/2017/12/22/bitcoin-selloff-13000-day-4/

Oh it's not just bitcoin, its' all cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrency has no intrinsic value. Only perceived value. That perceived value comes from the herd mentality of speculators. Some of those speculators will eat, the rest will get eaten.

 

[Reality]

Oh it's not just bitcoin, its' all cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrency has no intrinsic value. Only perceived value. That perceived value comes from the herd mentality of speculators. Some of those speculators will eat, the rest will get eaten.

Looks like a lot of people had the same "plan"

 

[DoctorChicken]

I list 3 things and you can only respond to 1.

Bcash is 4 times faster than btc...that alone is enough to move from btc to bch

I understand bch is faster.

If bitcoin cash didn't have "bitcoin" in the name, how much would it be trading for right now? Considering there are other, faster cryptos out there? Iota has zero fees, quantum proof, infinitely scalable. What, tech-wise, does bcash have on iota?

As Charlie Lee, the creator of LTC said -

"To be honest, BCH can compete well against LTC to be Bitcoin's silver. But their arrogance wouldn't let settle for a second. Their current strategy is winner take all against Bitcoin, and they will lose because of these reasons: Perpetual onchain scaling destroys decentralization. Without decentralization, you lose censorship resistance. Censorship resistance is what gives Bitcoin value. Without that, it's just PayPal 2.0, which is not revolutionary. BCH also has a very weak dev team when compared to Bitcoin Core. It's like high school team against pros. By keeping the same mining algorithm, BCH has to compete with BTC for miners. If we've learned anything from history, we know that it's a very bad position to be in. See Namecoin and Dogecoin. They both had to switch to merged mining to survive. BCH also uses the same address space. So much confusion. This hurts everyone. Given all that, the only possible outcome is that one coin will go to $0 in the long term. My bet is obviously on Bitcoin. All the short term price movement doesn't really matter. I'm not trading it."

 

[Denim Chicken]

Oh it's not just bitcoin, its' all cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrency has no intrinsic value. Only perceived value. That perceived value comes from the herd mentality of speculators. Some of those speculators will eat, the rest will get eaten.

Same with most investments. The value of precious metals is perceived as well.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Same with most investments. The value of precious metals is perceived as well.

In the jewelry sense that is true. Though gold has a huge host of physical and chemical properties that make it extremely useful element. It's has the highest corrosion resistance of all metals. It also has very high reflectivity, the fact that it's both malleable and ductile make it where to can thin it out into a gold sheet of foil or ductile enough to take a single ounce of gold and make a 50 mile thin wire out of it.. It's incredibly valuable as a building material. The James Webb Space telescope's mirrors are coated in gold rather than silver because gold is more reflective allowing it to see far more than Hubble's silver coated mirrors.

Obviously it's very conductive too (0.022 micro-ohm) which is why you see high quality gold plated audio and video cables among other things. Top it all off with the fact that it's a very rare metal, gives it real life intrinsic value. Though the people who want it as jewelry are more common therefore raising it's perceived value up to where it is now. (well, over $1.2k per ounce)

 

[Manwiththeplan]

A Ponzi scheme that is used as electronic currency in place of standard cash and credit cards. It works now only because the bitcoin users align with the given values. At any time for whatever reason, bitcoin values could be deemed worthless bc there is no legally agreed upon value to their currency acknowledged in any country/bank/reserve; far as I know anyway. Most use it to flip the coins into real money (short and quick exchange; poker site to this app, this app to bit coin, bit coin to this app, app to your real bank account, etc.)

I wouldn't quite say it's a ponzi scheme, as there is no real attempt at deception.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I wouldn't quite say it's a ponzi scheme, as there is no real attempt at deception.

Are you sure? The hype machine was / is RAGING. Especially from people who already own bitcoins. It could easily be a pump and dump scheme. That could be what the massive selloff is. People now dumping after a bunch of the general public thinking they have access to a get rich quick scheme when it truth, they are being played the fool.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

I understand bch is faster.

If bitcoin cash didn't have "bitcoin" in the name, how much would it be trading for right now? Considering there are other, faster cryptos out there? Iota has zero fees, quantum proof, infinitely scalable. What, tech-wise, does bcash have on iota?

As Charlie Lee, the creator of LTC said -

"To be honest, BCH can compete well against LTC to be Bitcoin's silver. But their arrogance wouldn't let settle for a second. Their current strategy is winner take all against Bitcoin, and they will lose because of these reasons: Perpetual onchain scaling destroys decentralization. Without decentralization, you lose censorship resistance. Censorship resistance is what gives Bitcoin value. Without that, it's just PayPal 2.0, which is not revolutionary. BCH also has a very weak dev team when compared to Bitcoin Core. It's like high school team against pros. By keeping the same mining algorithm, BCH has to compete with BTC for miners. If we've learned anything from history, we know that it's a very bad position to be in. See Namecoin and Dogecoin. They both had to switch to merged mining to survive. BCH also uses the same address space. So much confusion. This hurts everyone. Given all that, the only possible outcome is that one coin will go to $0 in the long term. My bet is obviously on Bitcoin. All the short term price movement doesn't really matter. I'm not trading it."

the one thing often forgotten when talking bitcoin/bcash/etc is blockchain.

There are alternate uses for blockchain outside of currency. Uses that are highly marketable and useful. The currency part is just what made supporting the blockchain with computing power worth doing. But it isnt just about currency.

Example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogera...-china-with-fortune-500s-jd-com/#4e4a664d7d9c

 

[Reality]

Looks like it's back up to $13,900 now, but volume is so high (double in the last 24 hours compared to before the sell-off) that it likely means the large investors are buying up the sell-off which is again creating artificial demand.

It's going to be funny if one day that instead of the claimed 40% of bitcoins owned by 1,000 investors, it turns out to be more like 70%

 

[Reality]

This is one of the problems I mentioned in an earlier post .. if the exchange shuts down or has issues, you are stuck watching helplessly while your money disappears ..

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/22...ading-buy-sell-unavailable-bitcoin-price-drop

 

[gmoney112]

I hope you sold recently. It’s dropping like a rock today.

Nope, up 2 months in rent the last few days. It's a market. There are plenty of opportunities.

 

[gmoney112]

I understand bch is faster.

If bitcoin cash didn't have "bitcoin" in the name, how much would it be trading for right now? Considering there are other, faster cryptos out there? Iota has zero fees, quantum proof, infinitely scalable. What, tech-wise, does bcash have on iota?

As Charlie Lee, the creator of LTC said -

"To be honest, BCH can compete well against LTC to be Bitcoin's silver. But their arrogance wouldn't let settle for a second. Their current strategy is winner take all against Bitcoin, and they will lose because of these reasons: Perpetual onchain scaling destroys decentralization. Without decentralization, you lose censorship resistance. Censorship resistance is what gives Bitcoin value. Without that, it's just PayPal 2.0, which is not revolutionary. BCH also has a very weak dev team when compared to Bitcoin Core. It's like high school team against pros. By keeping the same mining algorithm, BCH has to compete with BTC for miners. If we've learned anything from history, we know that it's a very bad position to be in. See Namecoin and Dogecoin. They both had to switch to merged mining to survive. BCH also uses the same address space. So much confusion. This hurts everyone. Given all that, the only possible outcome is that one coin will go to $0 in the long term. My bet is obviously on Bitcoin. All the short term price movement doesn't really matter. I'm not trading it."

BCH leaders are super villians.
BCH leadership are the most obnoxious, selfish, butthole human beings i've seen recently. They turned BCH into a pump and dump coin for 1 reason, line their investors pockets at the expense of everyone else. They don't care about the community, the normal person buying, they actively lie ALL the time and deceive as well as try and bring down bitcoin. They don't even try and hide it.

Recently, Jihan (one of their leaders who owns an exchange in Korea or something), got his miners to switch over to BCH to mine one weekend, while working favors with a korean exchange to spam 0 fee transactions in Bitcoin. This clogged up the mempool something fierce, while Roger Ver (one of the worst human beings i've ever seen), got his private interests to pump the price of BCH, just to dump it at the top all over normal, everyday investors.

And as far as the price. Welcome to crypto. This volatility is pretty normal.

What's happening is, you have MMs and vast amounts of capital with exposure to BTC now through futures; CME, CBOE, etc. Amazing how this downtrend happened during the week CME futures went live, innit?

Pretty obvious what's happening. MMs have started stomping around, throwing some Puts out there in futures, while using their influence and connections to drive down price. I'm sure soon they'll just do some longs and it'll rage up to 25k.

If you're only investing in bitcoin you're doing it wrong. It's a market. Most higher cap, high volume cryptocurrencies have become slightly immune to the effects of Bitcoin pricing with all this new volume. This didn't use to be the case. Everything was rekt when Bitcoin fluctuated a lot, now it's easy.

Anyways, no big deal really. If you're new to the experience, yes it seems crazy. You get used to it, and actually start to laugh at it when you've been in it for a while.

 

[Rockport]

Nope, up 2 months in rent the last few days. It's a market. There are plenty of opportunities.

It lost 1/3 of it’s value. To me that’s dropping like a rock.

 

[DoctorChicken]

It lost 1/3 of it’s value. To me that’s dropping like a rock.

Aaannnddd it’s back up again.