Blackistone: Coaching hires prove NFL discriminates

WoodysGirl

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Doomsday101 said:
What is the color of Rooney HC?
Seriously what does that have to do with anything? He hasn't looked for a new coach in over a decade. I imagine if he did, he'd at least bring in a diverse group of candidates.

Aikmirv: Carthon has more coaching experience than Mangini, respective to coordinator duties. He was OC in Det before coming here and then moving to Cleveland. Seriouly, I think it might burn his but that he lost out to Payton in N.O. Considering that's one of the reasons he left Dallas.

Gaede: Gray has been mentioned before as a solid candidate, but for whatever reason he hasn't had a lot of interviews. Also, he was given an extension w/Buffalo when Mularkey arrived. I see him getting another job as a coordinator again.
 

Doomsday101

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mickgreen58 said:
Huh?

- Mike G.

Rooney has made this an issue with the rule saying that a team must interview a black coach, if that is the case why is his HC white? If your going to be on the fore front of telling other teams who they need to interview would it not carry more weight to hire a minority HC. I think by and large owners look for the best coaches they can and I don't think they care the color of the skin.
 

Doomsday101

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WoodysGirl said:
Seriously what does that have to do with anything? He hasn't looked for a new coach in over a decade. I imagine if he did, he'd at least bring in a diverse group of candidates.

Aikmirv: Carthon has more coaching experience than Mangini, respective to coordinator duties. He was OC in Det before coming here and then moving to Cleveland. Seriouly, I think it might burn his but that he lost out to Payton in N.O. Considering that's one of the reasons he left Dallas.

Gaede: Gray has been mentioned before as a solid candidate, but for whatever reason he hasn't had a lot of interviews. Also, he was given an extension w/Buffalo when Mularkey arrived. I see him getting another job as a coordinator again.

Because he is telling others who they need to interview, he has his own team to run so run it and shut the old pie hole. As I mentioned in the last thread I don't think owners care about the color of the skin they want to win and will bring in any coach they feel will give them the best chance to win.
 

Maikeru-sama

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Doomsday101 said:
Rooney has made this an issue with the rule saying that a team must interview a black coach, if that is the case why is his HC white? If your going to be on the fore front of telling other teams who they need to interview would it not carry more weight to hire a minority HC. I think by and large owners look for the best coaches they can and I don't think they care the color of the skin.

Historically in this country, groups, organizations, and even Constitutional Amendments were set up to help the Minority, not the Majority.

I think there is a place for the Rooney Rule in the NFL.

Again, the NFL is the big bad gorilla on the block and seldom gets pushed around or intimidated by someone.

I dont think they enact this guideline, if it didnt have any merit.

I dont know the majority of owner, maybe you do, so I dont know how they feel. The findings of the Cochran/Mehri Study via qualitative/quantitative data, interviews from persons like Art Shell etc etc suggested that Racism was still a problem in the NFL.

- Mike G.
 

Alexander

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The Bills interviewed James Lofton for their head coaching position. The Raiders did the same.

It is very sad that somehow satisfying the rule tarnishes the real reason behind it and that is to advance, not keep the status quo, with token gestures.
 

jja050575

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mickgreen58 said:
Coaching hires prove NFL discriminates


01:25 AM CST on Thursday, January 19, 2006


Romeo Crennel got his first NFL head coaching job last February. Eric Mangini got his first NFL head coaching job Tuesday.

Crennel had just capped his 35th season in coaching, including nearly a quarter of a century in the NFL. Mangini turns 35 today and just completed his 11th season coaching in the league.

Crennel had just won a third Super Bowl ring in four years with Bill Belichick's Patriots as the defensive coordinator, a title he held previously in Cleveland, too. Mangini just watched his 11th season as an NFL assistant – his first as a coordinator – wind down in the divisional playoffs, where the defense he oversaw for Belichick's defending champions gave up 27 points at Denver in a loss.

Crennel is black; Mangini is white.

There was a lot of backslapping going on around the NFL this season about the strides the league made in its ongoing struggle to provide coaching aspirants of color a fair shot. Crennel was one of six black head coaches this season.

But improved numbers alone are not evidence that the NFL has become a meritocracy when it comes to front-office hiring. Its culture has not yet changed.

Not when it takes an infinitely more experienced and successful Crennel nearly a lifetime to become a head coach while a Mangini, Crennel's understudy, can become a field general as a relative neophyte.

Not when Mike McCarthy, the mastermind behind a horrific 49ers offense who previously was the genius behind a similarly horrendous Saints offense, gets picked to be Green Bay's head coach over candidates such as Bears assistant Ron Rivera, who just coordinated one of the most dominant defenses an NFL season has witnessed.

Not when the runner-up to the Jets' opening that Mangini won was Mike Tice, dismissed at season's end as a near joke of a sideline strategist for the Vikings.

"If anybody thinks this thing has changed, they need to deal with it day to day," said John Wooten, the '60s era lineman who chairs the Fritz Pollard Alliance, a group of minority coaches and executives in the NFL working with clubs to open the hiring process. (Pollard became the first black pro football head coach in the '20s and was enshrined in the Hall of Fame last year.)

If white coaches were looked at as black coaches are, the Cowboys' Sean Payton would have had a hard time getting hired by the Saints after all that marred Tice's tenure in the Twin Cities. But white coaches are judged individually, as all should be, and not collectively, as are black coaches.

To be sure, how many times in recent weeks have you heard it suggested that more black head coaching aspirants should win head jobs this off-season because of the success this season of Tony Dungy, Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith? Have you ever heard it suggested that white coaches shouldn't be hired because of the lack of success of Norv Turner or Dom Capers or Jim Haslett?

And even though we're supposed to be entering an off-season in which the unfairness of being judged collectively is supposed to work in favor of black head coaching aspirants, it hasn't.

There have been 10 head coaching vacancies. There have been five hires. One went to a black man, Herm Edwards, who left the Jets after five seasons, three in which he guided them to the playoffs.


CHARLES KRUPA/ Associated Press
After only one season as a coordinator, Eric Mangini, who turned 35 today, is an NFL head coach.
That Edwards got retreaded was a breakthrough of sorts. Second chances don't seem to be extended often to black coaches. Dennis Green and Dungy are so good, they couldn't be denied. But Ray Rhodes got one season in Green Bay after four in Philadelphia. Art Shell is still waiting for another shot despite a winning record and three playoff berths leading the Raiders for six seasons.

It takes the NFL's Rooney Rule, which requires franchises to interview candidates of color for openings, to ensure, if only falsely, that white candidates aren't the only candidates who get a look-see.

The NFL hasn't progressed anywhere near as much as the NBA, where race doesn't stand out anymore in front offices. Perhaps the NFL is a little further along than baseball. Time will tell if the World Series success of the White Sox, led by black general manager Kenny Williams and skippered by Venezuelan Ozzie Guillen, will translate into more opportunities for black and Latin front-office hopefuls there. So far, it hasn't.

But even though the coach of the year battle came down to Smith and Dungy, black head coaching hopefuls in the NFL are still waiting, even as the league hired its youngest coach since the early '60s.

E-mail kblackistone@***BANNED-URL***


WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR?
Kevin B. Blackistone lists the four minority assistant coaches in the NFL who are best suited, but thus far, passed over for NFL head coaching jobs:

Maurice Carthon, 44, Cle.: Named Browns offensive coordinator last February after spending two seasons as Cowboys offensive coordinator. ... Has 12 years of NFL coaching experience.

Jerry Gray, 43, Buf.: Five seasons as a defensive coordinator with the Buffalo Bills. ... In 2004, UT-ex molded defense that finished in the top five in the NFL in five categories.

Tim Lewis, 44, NYG: Six seasons as a defensive coordinator, the last two with the New York Giants. ... Employs aggressive and hard-hitting style of defense.

Ron Rivera, 43, Chi.: Completed second season as Chicago Bears defensive coordinator. ... Bears finished second in the NFL in total defense this season.

Link



PLEASE GO AWAY WITH THIS ****! GO TO THE DEADSKINS BOARD WITH THIS CRAP!!!!
 

burmafrd

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I really think the Rooney rule accomplished nothing. They would interview some and ignore them. MAYBE one or two got a second look if they really impressed- but I seriously doubt it. The GM's/Owners knew pretty much who they want before they even start the interviews. they paid lip service to the rule and did what they wanted to anyway. Whenever you try and force change you usually cause more problems then you solve.
 

WoodysGirl

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Doomsday101 said:
Because he is telling others who they need to interview, he has his own team to run so run it and shut the old pie hole. As I mentioned in the last thread I don't think owners care about the color of the skin they want to win and will bring in any coach they feel will give them the best chance to win.
The rule is in place for owners to broaden their candidacy search. I don't think it's to tell them they have to interview so and so or they'll be fined. I don't believe it's to tell them they must hire ANY of the guys they interview. The rule is not limited to African Americans. There may come a time when Norm Chow or any of the so-called "minority" coaches in the league might want to make a move up. Who's to say that opportunity would have been available if the Rooney rule didn't exist? History shows the chances would have been slim.

But the one thing I agree with you is that owners care about winning.
 

Doomsday101

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mickgreen58 said:
Historically in this country, groups, organizations, and even Constitutional Amendments were set up to help the Minority, not the Majority.

I think there is a place for the Rooney Rule in the NFL.

Again, the NFL is the big bad gorilla on the block and seldom gets pushed around or intimidated by someone.

I dont think they enact this guideline, if it didnt have any merit.

I dont know the majority of owner, maybe you do, so I dont know how they feel. The findings of the Cochran/Mehri Study via qualitative/quantitative data, interviews from persons like Art Shell etc etc suggested that Racism was still a problem in the NFL.

- Mike G.

I don't think racism is that big of an issue in the NFL as I see GM such as Ozzie Newson and James Harris or Black HC around the league and I think each of these men got the position not because of the color of their skin but because they have proven themselfs as assistant HC. What I don't like is when someone tells me who I have to interview or who I have to hire and if I fail to do that I get punished by the league. I have watched the NFL since the mid 60's I know where this league was then and I see how it is now
 

Doomsday101

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WoodysGirl said:
The rule is in place for owners to broaden their candidacy search. I don't think it's to tell them they have to interview so and so or they'll be fined. I don't believe it's to tell them they must hire ANY of the guys they interview. The rule is not limited to African Americans. There may come a time when Norm Chow or any of the so-called "minority" coaches in the league might want to make a move up. Who's to say that opportunity would have been available if the Rooney rule didn't exist? History shows the chances would have been slim.

But the one thing I agree with you is that owners care about winning.

According to the Rooney rule yes team can be penalizes for not interviewing a black coach.
 

trickblue

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Doomsday101 said:
According to the Rooney rule yes team can be penalizes for not interviewing a black coach.

Aren't they automatically penalized?
 

Doomsday101

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trickblue said:
Aren't they automatically penalized?

As Rooney alluded to, the guidelines for the hiring of coaches, which originally didn't have penalties attached, proved ineffective. The penalties were later attached, and just one team has since been found in violation of the rule: Detroit Lions President Matt Millen was fined $200,000 in 2003 for not interviewing a minority candidate in the process that led to the hiring of coach Steve Mariucci.

I guess Italian American does not qualify. LOL
 

WoodysGirl

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Doomsday101 said:
According to the Rooney rule yes team can be penalizes for not interviewing a black coach.
You missed part of my sentence. I said they don't have to interview "so and so" meaning a specific person or they'll be fined. However, they do need to interview a "minority" coach, not just African Americans or they will be penalized.

Sometimes you got to broaden your horizons or you might miss out on something good. If I'm a hiring manager, I'm not looking to interview and hire someone who looks like me. I'm going for the most qualified person. So with that, I have to broaden my search.

Owners weren't doing that prior to the rule.

Mike is right, tho that the NFL wouldn't have implemented the policy if there wasn't something to it.
 

WoodysGirl

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Alexander said:
The Bills interviewed James Lofton for their head coaching position. The Raiders did the same.

It is very sad that somehow satisfying the rule tarnishes the real reason behind it and that is to advance, not keep the status quo, with token gestures.
I think the Bills interviewed Gray too, I think.

Honestly, I think the Raiders are weird. So the interview of Lofton really doesn't surprise me. Have you seen their list of candidates? Off the wall...
 

WV Cowboy

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What are articles like this really trying to insinuate ?

Is he saying that NFL owners secretly may think that a black candidate is the best guy and could win a Super Bowl for him, ... but the owner won't hire him specifically because he is black ?

Or is he saying that NFL owners don't think that black candidates have what it takes to be a successful HC solely because their skin is darker than their own ?

Both seem ludicrous to me.

It gets too complicated for me.

For me as a fan, if we had just won back to back Super Bowls and our coach was black or white or tall or short or fat or skinny or old or young, ... or a midget leprechaun, ... I wouldn't care !!

Fans just want to win.
 

Doomsday101

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WoodysGirl said:
You missed part of my sentence. I said they don't have to interview "so and so" meaning a specific person or they'll be fined. However, they do need to interview a "minority" coach, not just African Americans or they will be penalized.

Sometimes you got to broaden your horizons or you might miss out on something good. If I'm a hiring manager, I'm not looking to interview and hire someone who looks like me. I'm going for the most qualified person. So with that, I have to broaden my search.

Owners weren't doing that prior to the rule.

Mike is right, tho that the NFL wouldn't have implemented the policy if there wasn't something to it.

And yet before that rule took place black HC were still being hired and were being hired for the right reason which was they proved themselfs. As for the reason to implement the rule it was because of outside pressure in the political world.
 

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Excellent Article, why did it take a rule by the NFL to just get minority canidates and interview. The rule doesn't tell the NFL Owners who to hire just give them a chance to interview for the job.
 

Maikeru-sama

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jja050575 said:
PLEASE GO AWAY WITH THIS ****! GO TO THE DEADSKINS BOARD WITH THIS CRAP!!!!

Thanks.

This is an article from the Dallas Mourning News. If we can have posts on this Forum Section about Referee's house being vandilized, Skins cap situation, Jimmy's Hair etc etc, I see no reason why this article could not be posted, as I often post articles on this forum and two others from valid news sources.

Now **** and go take your ritalin :rolleyes: .

- Mike G.
 

tyke1doe

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Doomsday101 said:
Because he is telling others who they need to interview, he has his own team to run so run it and shut the old pie hole. As I mentioned in the last thread I don't think owners care about the color of the skin they want to win and will bring in any coach they feel will give them the best chance to win.

Unfortunately, history has shown that many owners believe that only "white coaches" give them the best chance to win. And that's what the Rooney Rule is all about, to get these coaches to see that blacks have the qualification to be head coaches and should at the very least receive consideration.
 

Alexander

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WoodysGirl said:
I think the Bills interviewed Gray too, I think.

Honestly, I think the Raiders are weird. So the interview of Lofton really doesn't surprise me. Have you seen their list of candidates? Off the wall...

My point was that if I were Gray, Donnie Henderson or Maurice Carthon, I would be completely discouraged that a coach like Lofton had the opportunity to interview. It just shows how seriously flawed the whole process is.

Is anyone ready to state that James Lofton is even remotely ready for a head coaching job? I don't even think he has done much of note as a position coach. It is a token gesture and more than a touch insulting.

It basically is the ownership of these respective teams thumbing their nose at the whole process.
 
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