Blackistone: Coaching hires prove NFL discriminates

[Big Country]

Art Shell has put his name out there in the past, but never got a sniff.

Mort posted in a chat last year that basically said he's been out of coaching too long. If he'd taken an assistant job to stay in the loop, maybe.

The Mangini hire was a head scratcher simply cuz he's so light in experience. Alot of people don't particularly like the hire cuz of that. And the point Blackistone was making is that Mangini wasn't even on the HC radar prior to him moving up to DC last year and somehow he's a HC after one year as a DC. While Crennel made the rounds for several years before landing in Cleveland.

I normally don't post my opinions in these type of threads, simply cuz it's one of those that go too far off the radar, but I'll chime in on the coaching aspect

I think people confuse the idea that African American coaches are looking for handouts just cuz they're African Americans. I posted an article within one of the other threads similar to this one that disputed that notion from coaches who are currently doing the HC interview circuit.

The point is that they weren't even getting shots for interviews prior to that Rooney rule. These guys had coaching experience but they weren't even getting opportunties as legit candidates. Now they are. That's progress to me. Yeah you would think a couple more would have gotten hired with all the openings. But I've missed out on alot of jobs even tho I think I've interviewed well. And that may well could be the case here.

One of the comments made from that article by one of the coaching candidates is that at least guys are getting interviews and learning how the process works. So that they can be better prepared when their name comes up next time.

What is Art doing these days... Doesn't he have a front office job working in the NFL front office??

Found it...

Art's bio... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Shell

 

[tyke1doe]

And yet before that rule took place black HC were still being hired and were being hired for the right reason which was they proved themselfs. As for the reason to implement the rule it was because of outside pressure in the political world.

Really?

Art Shell, Tony Dungy, Ray Rhodes compared to the hundreds of white candidates who consistently received head coaching jobs.

Hand-full compared to room-full.

Additional question: how does a black coaching candidate "prove" himself?

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Until I read this tread, I was giving the NFL the benefit of doubt. While I know the media has a reputation of sensationalizing stories to sell papers ...certain appears of this matter appear to take coincidence to another level.

I'm sick of the "race" topics. Let people be hired and fired based on their ability not their color.

Agree ...this whole head coach hiring matter should have nothing to do with race, and everything to do with experience, past performance, and skill.

...could it be that the coaches just had better interviews and overall leadership skills not just on one side of the ball.

Who are you talking about -- what coaches had better leadership skills?

Late into the evenings, during business meetings in dimly lit office, where the smoke from cigars/cigarettes are so thick you can hardly see who's in the room ...who really knows what decisions and deals are really being made.

Are all applicants really being considered based on their worth? Is it wrong to pursue higher standards for anyone/group of people who wish to do so? Just because you or anyone is tired of hearing about this type of issue, does it make the point any more or less ethical to determine the truth.

Up to now, I've tried to remain objective, but here's just one subjective thought for the sake of this dialogue ...

In the mist of all this, two names come to mind Ray Rhodes and Buddy Ryan!
One black, one white -- both non effective at the head coach position. But the point is that regardless of their ethnicity, they both were disappointments at the helm! However, they were also equally given a chance to fail!

 

[jja050575]

Really?

Art Shell, Tony Dungy, Ray Rhodes compared to the hundreds of white candidates who consistently received head coaching jobs.

Hand-full compared to room-full.

Additional question: how does a black coaching candidate "prove" himself?

maybe because there aren't that many black coaches who wanted to apply for a head coach position. why don't white people just complain that there are not enough white players in the nfl and get a rooney rule for thet! you think they would listen to us? there are more african americans in pretty much any sport in america, so what are they crying about?????!!!!

 

[Doomsday101]

Really?

Art Shell, Tony Dungy, Ray Rhodes compared to the hundreds of white candidates who consistently received head coaching jobs.

Hand-full compared to room-full.

Additional question: how does a black coaching candidate "prove" himself?

Just as other do by what they do on the field. I'm not trying to insult anyone nor do I consider myself a racist and those who know me know very well I'm not but I do have a problem when someone tells me you must interview this person because of the color of his skin.

 

[WV Cowboy]

To me, I don't care if a person is black or white, ... and everything should be equal both ways.

So when I see topics such as this that say that whites are showing "favoritism" towards whites and aren't letting blacks get opportunities as HC in the NFL, I see that may be true.

But I also see black college's, black Miss America, black music awards, BET, etc. etc.

How is that not "favoritism" ?

Why is that OK ?

 

[jja050575]

To me, I don't care if a person is black or white, ... and everything should be equal both ways.

So when I see topics such as this that say that whites are showing "favoritism" towards whites and aren't letting blacks get opportunities as HC in the NFL, I see that may be true.

But I also see black college's, black Miss America, black music awards, BET, etc. etc.

How is that not "favoritism" ?

Why is that OK ?

THANK YOU, ANOTHER SMART OBSERVER, and let's not forget the black yellow pages. i'm glad you see it.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

To me, I don't care if a person is black or white, ... and everything should be equal both ways.

So when I see topics such as this that say that whites are showing "favoritism" towards whites and aren't letting blacks get opportunities as HC in the NFL, I see that may be true.

But I also see black college's, black Miss America, black music awards, BET, etc. etc.

How is that not "favoritism" ?

Why is that OK ?

That is the natural progression of things when one group has traditionaly been denied and unafforded equal rights as the majority.

And Black College's are not for only Blacks, any person may take courses there provided they satisfy the grade and entrace exam policies.

- Mike G.

 

[Doomsday101]

To me, I don't care if a person is black or white, ... and everything should be equal both ways.

So when I see topics such as this that say that whites are showing "favoritism" towards whites and aren't letting blacks get opportunities as HC in the NFL, I see that may be true.

But I also see black college's, black Miss America, black music awards, BET, etc. etc.

How is that not "favoritism" ?

Why is that OK ?

I agree. I work for Harris County in Houston. We have a union for all members of the sheriff department we also have the African American sheriffs departments union that however is not open to one and all. I also know how I was raised to judge all people by their action and not by the color of their skin.

 

[Dallas]

The folks arguing for more black head coaches just do not "get it". America never has been one to be told what to do.

Bank on this - If I am an owner - I will hire and fire whomever I feel like. That does NOT make me some racist because I choose to interview so and so and not give so and so the same interview just based on color. Do they have the same credentials and experience? Bring his butt in then and lets go through the process. I want the best damn coach my ball club can get. Be he white or black. Its sour to choke down a rule only being applied by pressure from the Awe inspiring NAACP and civil rights groups around this country.

If I were an African American aspiring coach - I certainly do NOT want some hand out interview just to follow some weak rule being smashed down owners throats if I really dont have the credentials and background to be even considered.

It has nothing to do w/ race. It has everything to do w/ I want to run the team the way I want because I own the damn thing. Period.

 

[tyke1doe]

maybe because there aren't that many black coaches who wanted to apply for a head coach position. why don't white people just complain that there are not enough white players in the nfl and get a rooney rule for thet! you think they would listen to us? there are more african americans in pretty much any sport in america, so what are they crying about?????!!!!

That's a bunch of crock.

At every level of society it's always assumed that blacks don't want managerial positions. It's at my wife's job, at my former girl friend's job, my friends job. Whites are always promoted while blacks are passed up and when blacks do stand up it's "oh, I didn't know you wanted to be a manager."

Secondly, your comparison shows your ignorance.
Representation on the NFL field has to do with talent. Phyiscal talent is more easily distinguishable than coaching talent.

One has to do with physical measureables, the other has to do with subjective measureables, how an owner "feels" about a certain candidate.

Given the fact that there are a number of black assistant coaches, coordinators and position coaches around the league, and many on successful franchises, you can't argue there aren't many qualified candidates who'd like to move into the head coaching ranks.

All they need is a chance.

 

[Dallas]

All they need is a chance.

Please dont feed us this crock of crap. A chance? Are you kidding?


PRODUCE !!!! That is your chance to get a chance.


Its all about production. If you suck as an assistant and your chosen few be it OL/DL/LB positions flat out stink.

I would not give you the time of day to be my HC. Thats not racist brother. Thats America...

 

[tyke1doe]

The folks arguing for more black head coaches just do not "get it". America never has been one to be told what to do.

Were you sleeping during history class?

Apparently you missed the Civil Rights Movement, the Civil War, Emanicipation, Women Suffrage and other significant movements when Americans had to be TOLD that they had to grant rights to other fellow Americans.

Don't start being stupid to prove a point. You only expose your ignorance.

If I were an African American aspiring coach - I certainly do NOT want some hand out interview just to follow some weak rule being smashed down owners throats if I really dont have the credentials and background to be even considered.

Well, because you're not an African American, I can understand why you think it's a hand out.
No one is saying hand out interview to an unqualified candidate. What we are saying - and I AM African American - is give us a chance to impress you with our credentials too. Don't shut the door on us because you've already decided who your man should be.
The fact that you don't understand this dynamic shows you don't know what it's like to be an African American. So please stop trying to squeeze your "if I was black" attitudes into what you think black people would want.

It has nothing to do w/ race. It has everything to do w/ I want to run the team the way I want because I own the damn thing. Period.

But you're asking for tax dollars to build bigger stadiums. But you're asking patrons - who are black and white - to support your product on the field.

Sorry, bucko, but as long as you have to interact with the public, you have totake that into consideration. And you can may own the team, but as long as we support the team, we can demand that you be equal in your approach to coaching candidates and include maong them those who reflect your patrons.

 

[tyke1doe]

Please dont feed us this crock of crap. A chance? Are you kidding?


PRODUCE !!!! That is your chance to get a chance.

So where is Mangini's production?

Where's Payton's production?

Where's McCarthy's production?

You don't even know what you're talking about.

You can't produce as a head coach unless you get a head coaching job.

Its all about production. If you suck as an assistant and your chosen few be it OL/DL/LB positions flat out stink.

I would not give you the time of day to be my HC. Thats not racist brother. Thats America...

Sherman Lewis, former Packer coordinator during their Super Bowl run, I hear them calling your name

Yes and it's also America where Norv Turner can get job after job after job and suck as a head coach, and black candidates can get even one of his chances after two failed attempts by this awful coach.

 

[sportsman]

The problem of rasicm is a problem as long as we have to talk about it.
The NFL just reflects our society.

Just picture the NFL without any minority players.

Hockey, anyone.

 

[superpunk]

The problem of rasicm is a problem as long as we have to talk about it.
The NFL just reflects our society.

Just picture the NFL without any minority players.

Hockey, anyone.

Um, hockey rules. Not sure where you're going with that one.

 

[NinePointOh]

The folks arguing for more black head coaches just do not "get it". America never has been one to be told what to do.

Then why did we need the 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, and 24th amendments?

If I were an African American aspiring coach - I certainly do NOT want some hand out interview just to follow some weak rule being smashed down owners throats if I really dont have the credentials and background to be even considered.

Then you don't have to accept the interview. It's not that Matt Millen didn't TRY to schedule an interview with a minority candidate before hiring Mooch. It's just that they all understood why he was asking. Many of the same candidates, however, have interviewed with other teams because they believe they have a legitimate chance. And Blackistone's argument is that there are several minority candidates who DO have the credentials and background to be considered but who are being passed up for white candidates who DON'T.

 

[Gaede]

So where is Mangini's production?

Where's Payton's production?

Where's McCarthy's production?

You don't even know what you're talking about.

You can't produce as a head coach unless you get a head coaching job.

Exactly what I was going to say.

I do know that Rivera, Gray, and Lewis have all 'produced' as assistants. Seriously, what compels a team to hire Mike McCarthy above these three coaches???

 

[Hussein]

It's obvious the NFL, despite recent improvements, still discriminates. The point of the article was that it takes blacks much longer to gain HC position than whites. Trying to justify this by saying "did they even want HC postions in the first place" is just silly.

 

[superpunk]

Exactly what I was going to say.

I do know that Rivera, Gray, and Lewis have all 'produced' as assistants. Seriously, what compels a team to hire Mike McCarthy above these three coaches???

His reputation with young QBs, perhaps??? And the fact that Green Bay has one Aaron Rodgers sitting on the bench?