Bledsoe: Sacks and Options

[MichaelWinicki]

Bledsoe did not have a problem with Intermediat routs when he had someone who could run them.

Please Doom you're not saying that Eric Moulds can't run intermediate routes are you?... please tell me your not saying that.

 

[kartr]

And what team is taking a chance on the great Quincy Carter! All this talk about a QB who can't find a team. LOL

Just because you don't have a team doesn't mean you aren't better than those who are on a team. Yeah, Chicago,Arizona,Detroit,Miami,Cleveland,Washington,Dallas,9'ers all showed that they didn't need Quincy Carter and so did their records. Isn't it ironic that a team who did have good starter, signed Carter, who helped them win games and made the playoffs. Yeah, those teams who didn't sign Carter looked so much smarter than the Jets. LOL

 

[JDSmith]

Quincy has drug problems. He missed his team's playoff games because of those drug problems. Nobody is going to want to take that kind of risk on a guy who's been a middling QB to this point. He's got potential, but he's also got demons - and the demons have shown more thus far than the potential. Why are we still talking about Quincy at this point? We're 2 QBs removed from QC.

 

[Doomsday101]

Please Doom you're not saying that Eric Moulds can't run intermediate routes are you?... please tell me your not saying that.

Not at all Bledsoe connected with him 88 times for over 1,000 yards. Evans on the other hand is not that damn good and the TE for Buffalo would have a hard time cracking the lineup in Dallas. Here Bledsoe will have a tall and very physical WR who does a very good job of running the intermiate routs in Key as well as one of the best TE in Pro football today Witten ranked 2nd only to Tony Gonzalez. Moulds is good but that is about it for Buffalo in the passing game are you telling me Evans is a great WR?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I thought you mentioned his name, that's why I brought it up. Where do you get 9 starts, he started 9 games for Dallas and 5 games for Chicago. If he can win 10 games for Chicago in 2005, you might have a point, but he wont.
Securing the number 2 spot in Chicago, whose QB's are the worst in the NFL is nothing to crow about.

You answered your own question. He had 9 starts in Dallas. You asked what he had done and so I outlined what he had done during the course of his time in Chicago, last season.


I agree, it may not be the resume of a HOF QB but, he's had 14 starts in the NFL. He's got himself in a situation where he's employeed with the opportunity to learn more. I don't see Hutchinson as a starting QB in the NFL. I see him as a journeyman back-up. If he continues to work hard, he might just be able to hammer out a nice career. There's no shame in keeping a job, in the NFL for 8 or 10 years, making anywhere from 500k to a couple of million a season. He will make a little money, maybe win a championship along the way and likely walk away from this game with his health intact.

That's not a bad deal.

 

[Doomsday101]

Just because you don't have a team doesn't mean you aren't better than those who are on a team. Yeah, Chicago,Arizona,Detroit,Miami,Cleveland,Washington,Dallas,9'ers all showed that they didn't need Quincy Carter and so did their records. Isn't it ironic that a team who did have good starter, signed Carter, who helped them win games and made the playoffs. Yeah, those teams who didn't sign Carter looked so much smarter than the Jets. LOL

No it means coaches are not going to trust their team to a QB that has drug problems. As far as his play I'll say it, it is not good not by a long shot. Even in Dallas making the playoffs Carter still managed to throw more ints than TD a common occurrence he has every single year in Dallas and he is damn lucky he had a defense that was not giving up points because Carter damn sure was not leading us to many TD. You can drool over the guy all you want I was sick of him and damn glad we shipped his sorry ars out of here.

 

[blindzebra]

What is the contradiction? People mean different things when they say "pocket qb". People who don't like QB's with mobility act as if only "pocket stiffs" are intelligent enough to read defenses. My point was that Young and Elway could beat you in the pocket or on the run. Marino was a one-dimensional pocket qb and so is Bledsoe and so is Kerry Collins, but the difference lies in the mobility option. "Mobile Pocket Passers" such as Elway,Montana,Young can beat you more than one way. So when I speak with disdain about "pocket passers", I'm talking about the Marinos and Bledsoes, not the others. I believe you understood me anyway, your just playing word games.

Your true colors came out before and I'm not the only one who picked up on it.

You had posts edited, you've used the little racist catch phrases like "golden boy" so stop playing innocent and grow a pair and actually say, flat out, what you mean.

Or just go back to making stuff up, I really don't care.

 

[Doomsday101]

Quincy has drug problems. He missed his team's playoff games because of those drug problems. Nobody is going to want to take that kind of risk on a guy who's been a middling QB to this point. He's got potential, but he's also got demons - and the demons have shown more thus far than the potential. Why are we still talking about Quincy at this point? We're 2 QBs removed from QC.

May as well be talking about Steve Pellure. LOL

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just because you don't have a team doesn't mean you aren't better than those who are on a team. Yeah, Chicago,Arizona,Detroit,Miami,Cleveland,Washington,Dallas,9'ers all showed that they didn't need Quincy Carter and so did their records. Isn't it ironic that a team who did have good starter, signed Carter, who helped them win games and made the playoffs. Yeah, those teams who didn't sign Carter looked so much smarter than the Jets. LOL

Yeah, I agree. Quincy did go to a better situation then many other QBs looking for a job. Our previous discussion about Hutchinson is a perfect example of this.

On the other hand, the Jets gave QC a great opportunity to make a nice career for himself and look how they were rewarded for there generousity.

I think this is a bad point you try to make here Kartr. I give Herm and the Jets huge props for trying to give Quincy a chance but I think it's a real diservice to try and spin this in such a way as to suggest that they looked smarter then these other clubs for doing so. In fact, the Jets were stung by this act of kindness at the very time they were most vulnerable. The Jets really needed someone to hold the line while Pennington got time to heal. Because of what QC elected to do, that didn't happen. Pennington was forced to play too early, IMO, and it showed in the playoffs. I just think your avoiding the obviouse here in an attempt to win a point. Sometimes, you gotta look at what's being talked about as opposed to trying to be correct on a point of fact.

It's the difference between being right and being correct.

 

[blindzebra]

Yeah, I agree. Quincy did go to a better situation then many other QBs looking for a job. Our previous discussion about Hutchinson is a perfect example of this.

On the other hand, the Jets gave QC a great opportunity to make a nice career for himself and look how they were rewarded for there generousity.

I think this is a bad point you try to make here Kartr. I give Herm and the Jets huge props for trying to give Quincy a chance but I think it's a real diservice to try and spin this in such a way as to suggest that they looked smarter then these other clubs for doing so. In fact, the Jets were stung by this act of kindness at the very time they were most vulnerable. The Jets really needed someone to hold the line while Pennington got time to heal. Because of what QC elected to do, that didn't happen. Pennington was forced to play too early, IMO, and it showed in the playoffs. I just think your avoiding the obviouse here in an attempt to win a point. Sometimes, you gotta look at what's being talked about as opposed to trying to be correct on a point of fact.

It's the difference between being right and being correct.

ABQ, you are talking to someone who makes up stats, re-writes history, and plays the race card in support of Carter. You are wasting your time.

 

[Waffle]

Your true colors came out before and I'm not the only one who picked up on it.

You had posts edited, you've used the little racist catch phrases like "golden boy" so stop playing innocent and grow a pair and actually say, flat out, what you mean.

Or just go back to making stuff up, I really don't care.

Talk about getting to the nuts and bolts of it. :clap2:

Someone who thinks guys like Jeff Blake and Kordell Stewart deserve their 1,300,400th chance with another team while completely writing off "golden boys" like Josh McNown, and Hutch only after a few games (and Henson after a couple of quarters!! ) is certainly very suspicious to me.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Not at all Bledsoe connected with him 88 times for over 1,000 yards. Evans on the other hand is not that damn good and the TE for Buffalo would have a hard time cracking the lineup in Dallas. Here Bledsoe will have a tall and very physical WR who does a very good job of running the intermiate routs in Key as well as one of the best TE in Pro football today Witten ranked 2nd only to Tony Gonzalez. Moulds is good but that is about it for Buffalo in the passing game are you telling me Evans is a great WR?

Evans great?

No... but

11 games started last year. 48 catches, 9 TD's, almost 900 yards... That's pretty darn good. He certainly had more impact his first year than I would have thought he would.

 

[NorTex]

Gentlemen, a quarterback getting sacked means neither he is slow of foot or unable to read a blitz...it happens.

In fact, Mike Vick was sacked at least 4 times in a game, EIGHT times last year. What does that tell you? I don't know what to make of it either.

So let's not give Bledsoe a hard time for being sacked. It's just one play that results in some lost yards. Julius was tackled for losses quite a bit last year.

 

[DIAF]

I don't know why there's 7 pages of haggling over Bledsoe in this thread. I think anyone with half a brain knows what we will be getting, and it won't be Great, nor will it be terrible.

Bledsoe has been, throughout his career, nothing more than a guy with a big armand average everything else. He's a deep-ball, throw it 40 times a game type QB, yet he possesses only an average TD to INT ratio. So, i would expect more of the same out of him. 58% completion, 3500+ yards, 20 TDs, 14 Ints or something very close to it. Average. Nothing more, nothing less.

Considering the hoopla that surrounded him in college and in the draft (remember? ESPN played it up like they were the top two QB prospects in a long time....Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe! Who will go #1???????", Bledsoe has been a big disappointment. The super-star QB that never was. That's okay. We don't need him to be a superstar. As long as he's average and we have Julius pounding away at DLs and LBs, we'll be ok on offense.

 

[wileedog]

Evans great?

No... but

11 games started last year. 48 catches, 9 TD's, almost 900 yards... That's pretty darn good. He certainly had more impact his first year than I would have thought he would.

Doesn't mean he's particularly good at anything but running real fast past a CB.

Not that that is a bad thing by any means, but it certainly does not denote that he is an experienced reciever finding seams in the coverage on intermediate stuff.

As for Moulds, he's spent the last 2 years double and triple covered. Its a testament to him that he's put up the numbers he has, but even if he was the best intermediate route runner ever, he still is carrying the focus of the defense on him.

Between Evens and Moulds a TE or RB should have put up monster numbers receiving due to the lack of attention paid to them. Nobody did.

SO the question becomes, did they not because Bledsoe wasn't looking for them, or because they could even beat single coverage so he stopped looking for them?

My guess is a little of both.

I still think with viable options such as Whitten and KJ Bledsoe can break that habit. Especially with Big Bill on his ***. Not saying it will happen, just that its a bit premature in July to decide that it can't.

Bledsoe has had some very, very good seasons in this league. At this point in the offseason with the coaching we have there is a benefit of the doubt factor IMO.

 

[Alexander]

Which makes my point. You are saying the Bledsoe will do worse than Vinny.

If they are 'counterbalanced', then why will Bledsoe do worse than Vinny?

I have never claimed Bledsoe will do worse than Testeverde. I just maintain we are not getting much better and they will probably end up remarkably equal.

Looks more like Bledsoe was allowed to get into a lot of bad habits like waiting on ERic Moulds to get open all the time because for a while he had no one else but a rookie to throw the ball to.

Very limited thought. Moulds is a very good WR and is probably better than any we have. Yet, he is an excuse. So be it.

Bad habits can be broken.

But easily?

Again, I don't highly doubt Bill will put up with free-lancing. Its one of the things which got Antonio shipped out of here.

There is a difference between inheriting a free lancer and having one of your own do it.

I think Coach is deep enough under Bledsoe's skin to keep this from being a problem. But it could happen, that is all I am saying. That is just how Bledsoe is.

The MORE LIKELY scenario is that gets nipped in the bud the first time Bledsoe tries it in training camp or in a game.

I would pay big money to hear Parcells rip him a new one.

Antonio's because Antonio was a idiot.

Well. Who am I to argue with the truth?

 

[Alexander]

I don't think he's an above average QB anymore. Hope one of the younguns beats him out.

They do not have a prayer.

But not because they are not skilled.

 

[Alexander]

Just because you don't have a team doesn't mean you aren't better than those who are on a team.

You are marginal.

And you don't have a job.

But you are better than those who have jobs.

This makes complete sense.

Yeah, Chicago,Arizona,Detroit,Miami,Cleveland,Washington,Dallas,9'ers all showed that they didn't need Quincy Carter and so did their records. Isn't it ironic that a team who did have good starter, signed Carter, who helped them win games and made the playoffs. Yeah, those teams who didn't sign Carter looked so much smarter than the Jets. LOL

I said this before.

You can pass as highly intelligent in normal conversation. But when someone mentions your namesake, you lose all your brain cells.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

This is one of the better threads on this board lately..a lot of well made points. Ravi is right in his analysis of Bledsoe's ability to come back...at one point he held the NFL comeback record with over 20 games, and may still hold it.

I watched Bledsoe very closely throughout the NE portion of his career, and understand what the concerns/issues were under Pete Carroll and under Belichick.

With the Bills I saw three or four games a year, but was not paying close enough attention to the offensive systems..and the system, not the personnel that has been so well discussed here, has always struck me as Drew's biggest problem. It won't be Witten vs Riersema, or Johnson vs Moulds that will dictate if DB suceeds or fails, imo.

It will be how comfortable Bill can make Drew in the same basic O he ran in NE, while at the same time adapting to the realities of what DCs now understand about Drew's game..that he shoots himslef in the foot with his own impatience.

When Drew went to Buffalo, he was working under the very complicated Kevin Gilbride
system, with its notorious 'tree routes'. This was the complex receiver route scheme that depends on receivers having the option to 'branch off' in several directions based on how the corner played his man. The receiver had to make the right decision, and the QB had to be very much on the same page with him, understanding all the possibilities the receiver had, and identifying which move the receiver would take.
It is a very cerebral approach for receivers and QBs. You gotta read the db AND the wideout.

This is the scheme that undid Kordell Stewart, and it was largely because his receivers did not grasp it, not just Kordell. When Gilbride first installed it in Pittsburgh, the receivers were midle of the road types, not the stable Buress-Ward-Randel El they had in the most recent past.

After witnessing how Drew could not handle the Zampese timing O in NE, I thought he was sunk in Buffalo. But lo and behold, in that first season in Buffalo, for most of it anyway, Bledsoe was excelling at it. He got such a strong grasp of both Moulds and Price, and his decision making was solider than I had seen in years. Surprisingly, Bledsoe was throwing a lot longer a lot more often than you'd expect with Gilbride, and it was working because of that synchronicity with his receiver and all of them apparently understanding how to work the tree routes. It was very YAC based, and defenses were flat out stymied...

Then it just fell apart.

Now this is the SAME O that less than two years later would be scrapped when Greg Williams and with him Gilbride, were fired. Drew then made some remarks about the system being way too complicated for the receivers and the oline. But it HAD been working early on, and the receiver adjustments that it was based on made it work.

I can't say exactly what other teams did to stifle Drew, but I know what the Jets did, and that was go to more zone coverage...with the intent of doing ONE thing....preventing Drew from going long. Bellichick took it one further and flooded the zones on Drew. When he was forced to dink and dunk down the field, his own impatience would sabotage him. I can't think of any other way to describe it but a lack of patience. And that frustration with not being able to go long as much as he likes snowballs, and then his good decisions become panciky, forced ones, and his accuracy suffers, he then tries to force it long, or waits too too long waiting for a receiver downfield to get open when there are two of them open right in front of him.

This trait of his is not dependent on personnel, and it won't be a marginal upgrade of
JJ over McGahee, or the superiority of Witten that will matter, but if that confounded lack of discipline Drew has is eradicated, or at least minimized.

Now I do think Bill and ONLY Bill can beat that impatience back out of Drew, and I think we may be surprised how little rein Drew gets, much less so that Vinny, until he can revert to the game he played under Bill, which was to take what you are given ALWAYS, and not lose it or hold onto it if the long option isn't there, ....because it won't be easy for Drew to look to Jason or Key when he thinks he can get more...the sad fact is DCs know you can beat Drew Bledsoe by doing just two things...blitzing up the middle and taking the long ball away, because he has lacked the discipline to kill them underneath.

 

[Hostile]

I define a "pocket qb" as a stiff who can't create on his own when he has to,i.e. one dimensional. I prefer an Elway to a Marino, a Steve Young to a Kerry Collins. I think of Carter as a "pocket QB" also, but a mobile one. I think all "good QB's" are pocket ones, but to me the best ones have enough mobility to make defenses pay. I do prefer Carter to Bledsoe, but I also prefer Carter to Vick also. I consider Vick, a smaller version of Vince Young, but nevertheless, a winner, but an exception to the rule. The whole point in my statement was that so many here have made an enormous amount of excuses for a qb that has lost his last two jobs and hasn't done anything for this team yet. Where was that support for Carter before Aug. 04 last year?

Well, at least you're consistent. Consistently wrong. That isn't what a pocket QB is at all. Most ridiculous is the assumption that Dan Marino (definitely a "pocket" QB) could not create on his own.Just plain silly.