Bledsoe: Sacks and Options

[SuspectCorner]

here's to Bledsoe leading the NFL in "handoffs".

:beer2:

 

[kartr]

I mean there comes a time when you have to stop blaming the line... the Buffalo line wasn't terrific but these guys were professionals... Jonas Jennings, Mike Williams, Chris Villarrial... 3-4 sacks in a game is a good defense getting the best of your line... when you get to 7 sacks, against the Raiders no less (not a bad D, but not worthy of 7 sacks), something is wrong with your QB. It's probably all a moot point because his line here is better, but in Buffalo, Bledsoe had problems that stemmed from him.

I think you've got Bledsoe figured out, and so has most of the NFL,except for a few Bledsoe apoloigists on this board who still drinking the Parcells Kool-Aid.

 

[kartr]

Nice burmafed...

You laid out a nice scenario that gives Bledsoe all the credit if he succeeds and absconds him from blame if he fails. Actually that fits right in with the Bledsoe MO.

That was beautiful man, just beautiful.

 

[kartr]

Is that why Reimersma really lit things up in 2003? Bledsoe had the same deal in 1996 with Glenn and Jefferson except he also had the TE in Coates. The change from 4.8% sacks to 8.4% is a big one, and I think it is explained partly by age and mostly by not having a strong TE.

Bledsoe's biggest on the field personality flaw is that he wants to make the biggest possible play each and every pass play. He's not a dumpoff kind of QB, though he will do so if he has options. If he has early success deep, he will keep firing deep until better options present themselves.

Bledsoe was not a liability in Buffalo, the offense was simply not equipped to be pass-first. With McGahee running first, Buffalo begain tearing up the league. You just don't win that many games if your QB is a liability.

Look at who they beat late in the season, Arizona,Cleveland,Sf, just the dregs of the league. What happened when they played Pittsburgh at home in the last game of the season, needing just one game to make the playoffs,answer: same old Bledsoe. And the Steelers rested their starters too.

 

[kartr]

You cant be serious. Calling them professionals doesnt mean anything but they make a lot of money. But also by calling them professionals, you need to consider what they are a professional of.........how about PROTECTING THE QB. That is their freaking job, to protect the QB and make holes for the RB. What do you mean you cant place all the blame on the OL? Sure if the QB runs right into a blitz, or if he just holds on to the ball forever, it can be his fault. But as previously stated, only 1 sack came from a lineman. Which means, Bledsoe was completely let down by his line. If a QB throws a pass on a rope to his WR and the WR just misses the ball, or runs an off route and the ball somehow ends up with the other team, you cant blame the QB for that. The WR didnt do his job, which is catch the ball if at all possible!! You cant blame Bledsoe for having a OL that played like they were high schoolers. Did you see Buffalo's line? It was worse than ours most of the time. Come on, man, think things through before you post them.


ps-
There comes a time when YOU have to stop blaming the Quarterback.

ps- If his name is Bledsoe, then you blame him. At least that's what the Pats and Bills did.

 

[kartr]

I wonder precisely how many of you actually had an opinion about Drew Bledsoe before he signed with us? I can at least respect the opinion of Mr. Winicki as he has admitted to actually seeing him play. The majority of everyone else is simply buying into the "Buffalo had a bad OL excuse" and rallying around the wagons. Even the one game that most Dallas fans should have seen in 2003 obviously is not enough for anyone to be realistic about what to expect from this player.

I wonder if there was a poll last year during the season, how many of you would express the same heartfelt excuses for his level of play?

Once someone dons the colors, all their warts disappear and the rose colored glasses come on.

This is really great to see fans rally around our QB and make excuses for him.

Afterall, it is a Dallas tradition.

Rally around the qb in Dallas a tradition, surely you jest. Maybe you should have said rally around the pocket qb.

 

[kartr]

Some of us also watched him play at Buffalo and have seen him on his good days and his bad. Myself I think with a good supporting cast around Bledsoe he can do the job, not claiming Pro Bowl numbers but yes I think in Parcells system Bledsoe can do a good job. For those who want to rip him at every turn go for it but we will all see soon enough if Bledsoe is a good fit in Dallas or not.

We've already seen him, that's why we don't want to see him in a Dallas jersey and everybody else in our division does.

 

[Alexander]

You mean its completely unreasonable to expect some improvement from working with a HOF head coach? Or with a better line, better RB and better receiving options?

You are assuming that we have a better RB (toss up, as much as I like Jones, I cannot say that he is that much better than McGahee), better WR (Moulds and Evans are worse than KJ and Glenn?) and our OL is so good we might have to send Larry Allen to RT and start a rookie at RG. Did I get everything?

Funny, everyone thought Vinny was completely washed up too. Yet in the first 8 games he threw for 2000 yards and a respectable 82 rating before losing Glenn and wearing down due to age. ANd that was with Eddie 'running' the ball and a defense handing out points like candy.

That is part of my point. If Bledsoe could be as good as Vinny was in that stretch, I think it would do. I am just not confident that he can. He will definitiely not get tired arm, but I think his inability to sense the rush and fumbles will equal out the interceptions. That is why I think we will be fortunate to have a better year out of Bledsoe than we got out of Testeverde. He will need a ton of help. We better run the ball alot.

But you know Coach Parcells. He stubbornly believes in "his guys", so he might be daring enough to try to air it out. That scares me to death.

What did Vinny have that Bledsoe doesn't, other than 10 more years under his belt?

Better pocket presence. Uses the checkdown and sees the field better. Does not always look for the big play. Can hang onto the football when hit.

Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, like it or not Bledsoe was the best available option assuming Henson is not ready. We can certainly start yet another thread arguing the merits of just tossing Henson out there this year, but seeing that Bill has decided he's not ready to take over yet, there was absolutely positively not a better option available for the pricetag we got him at than Drew Bledsoe.

I am not advocating Henson over Bledsoe. That makes sense when you are out of playoff contention. If we are out of shouting distance, we might see him. But otherwise, we will get the "best chance to win" business we got late last year until the bitter end. Sorry, if you want Drew, you better watch ESPN classic replays or hope for injury.

I don't see anyone proclaiming Bledsoe is headed to the Pro Bowl. However I do see reasons to be optimistic that he can have a significantly better year than he did last year and a better one than Vinny did overall. You can call it 'excuses' if you want to, but there really is no denying that Drew is in a better situation here than he was with Buffalo last year, and should in theory be more effective.

You used "significantly" better.

What is "significantly" better? I simply think we get similar results. If you think significantly better is a slightly better int/TD ratio, then I agree.

And until Henson is ready or the Patriots lose their collective minds and trade us Brady, that is probably the best we can hope for.

The best we can hope for, but that does not mean love it.

 

[Alexander]

Rally around the qb in Dallas a tradition, surely you jest. Maybe you should have said rally around the pocket qb.

There you go again.

Care to define "pocket QB"?

I think Carter was a "pocket QB" because he certainly did better from the pocket with his feet set.

 

[Alexander]

However, most fans are completely comfortable with suggesting that Roy be put in a position (back to SS) where he will succeed. Why can't the same courtesy be extended to Bledsoe?

Because you are operating from two totally different skill sets.

One player is among the best at his true position. The other is in the middle of the pack, if you are being very, very generous.

 

[Doomsday101]

We've already seen him, that's why we don't want to see him in a Dallas jersey and everybody else in our division does.

I have seen him play as well, I don't expect Bledsoe to carry this team but I do think Parcells will run a system that will benifet Bledsoe.

 

[kmd24]

Because you are operating from two totally different skill sets.

One player is among the best at his true position. The other is in the middle of the pack, if you are being very, very generous.

I knew you would bring this up despite my disclaimer that I wasn't suggesting Blesdsoe was as good a QB as RW is a safety.

Anyway, what difference does their respective skill at their position make? Are you suggesting that Bledsoe should be asked to do MORE as a QB because he is less talented (an average QB) than Roy (a pro bowl safety)? Seems like it should be the other way around.

There are ways to help Bledsoe succeed. The fact that he has liabilities is unfortunate. However, it's not like there is a great alternative out there.

 

[kmd24]

That is part of my point. If Bledsoe could be as good as Vinny was in that stretch, I think it would do. I am just not confident that he can. He will definitiely not get tired arm, but I think his inability to sense the rush and fumbles will equal out the interceptions.

Bledsoe had only one more fumble and only three more sacks than Vinnie in 2005 in a similar number of plays, despite the fact that Dallas arguably had a better OL than Buffalo last year.

Vinnie's fumble at the end of the Pittsburgh game essentially cost the Cowboys the game.

 

[Alexander]

Anyway, what difference does their respective skill at their position make? Are you suggesting that Bledsoe should be asked to do MORE as a QB because he is less talented (an average QB) than Roy (a pro bowl safety)? Seems like it should be the other way around.

A QB is asked to do more, make more decisions and quicker than anyone on the football field.

It is only recently and through Parcells' insistence that we can just get by with retreads. There was not a single team in the playoffs last season who had an average QB like Bledsoe. There were a bunch of teams which average QBs (like Buffalo) who were left out in the cold. So I think there is a big difference.

There are ways to help Bledsoe succeed. The fact that he has liabilities is unfortunate. However, it's not like there is a great alternative out there.

Bledsoe is at the stage in his career where his shortcomings are becoming greater than his strengths. So you have to do your best to mask the deficiencies and maximize the strengths.

If we do what those idiots in Buffalo did, which is feature the running game, then we might be able to squeeze a few more victories out of his mediocrity, provided our defense and special teams provides the same level of support that they did in Buffalo.

Amazingly, our best case scenario could be for a Quincy Carter-type performance from him, where Parcells has the shock collar on and we win games with field position and strong defense.

If he even attempts to deviate from that, then I am convinced we will fail and fail miserably.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Rally around the qb in Dallas a tradition, surely you jest. Maybe you should have said rally around the pocket qb.

Oh, I don't know Kartr. I think most Cowboy fans rallied around Carter. The difference being, some did it to sacrafice "Hutcher's" in offering and some did it to stack the wood at his feet so that the fire could be lite, post haste.

It's really all in the way you view it.

:laugh2:

 

[Alexander]

Oh, I don't know Kartr. I think most Cowboy fans rallied around Carter. The difference being, some did it to sacrafice "Hutcher's" in offering and some did it to stack the wood at his feet so that the fire could be lite, post haste.

It's really all in the way you view it.

:laugh2:

I agree.

Carter had many many supporters.

It is only since his drug issues that the dog pile began.

 

[wileedog]

You are assuming that we have a better RB (toss up, as much as I like Jones, I cannot say that he is that much better than McGahee)

Drew didn't have a full season with McGahee, and yes I think JJ is better, although probably splitting hairs.

better WR (Moulds and Evans are worse than KJ and Glenn?)

I said better receiving options.

Glenn, KJ, Whitten, JJ > Moulds, Evans, Campbell, McGahee

and our OL is so good we might have to send Larry Allen to RT and start a rookie at RG. Did I get everything?

OMG a rookie!!!! That completely destroys a line comprised of a future HOFer still playing at a high level (and reportedly in his best physical condition in years), 2 other multi-year Pro Bowlers and a 2nd round draft pick in his '2nd' year (for all intents and purposes).

Wow, that sucks.

And if the line is so bad, then that only further proves JJ is a better runner than McGahee.

That is part of my point. If Bledsoe could be as good as Vinny was in that stretch, I think it would do. I am just not confident that he can. He will definitiely not get tired arm, but I think his inability to sense the rush and fumbles will equal out the interceptions. That is why I think we will be fortunate to have a better year out of Bledsoe than we got out of Testeverde. He will need a ton of help. We better run the ball alot.

So in your opinion, he can't do what a 41 year old QB who is among the most infamous Interception throwers in NFL history did. Gotchya.

Drew has had some monster seasons in the past. If his inability to sense the rush and get rid of the ball was of such debilitating Hutch proportions, he would have been run out of the league years ago, not gone to the Pro Bowl just 3 years ago.

The more likely explanation is that while it is a weakness (and I'm not saying its not), his coaching and personnel have not been good enough to cover it, as they were in years past.

But you know Coach Parcells. He stubbornly believes in "his guys", so he might be daring enough to try to air it out. That scares me to death.

This has been debunked to death.

With the *possible* exception of Vinny/Henson, name ONE player of any signifigance who got anything resembling real playing time over a more talented player because he was a "Parcell's Guy". Name one time Parcells didn't put players in the best positions to succeed because he 'liked' someone.

Hell, name one time Bill has gone "Air Parcells" - even in the Patriots/Bledsoe heyday the play selection was 50/50. And after severely spanking Drew 2 years ago in 2003 with blitzes up the middle, do you really think Bill is that stupid that he is going to open up Drew to that same kind of abuse? Are you that irrationally cynical of Parcells?

Better pocket presence. Uses the checkdown and sees the field better. Does not always look for the big play. Can hang onto the football when hit.

Vinny is also a far worse decision maker, often forces things that are simply not there, and had several key fumbles/Ints that lost games last year. Once Glenn went down he tunnel visioned on KJ at times, and everyone in the stadium knew it. Remember this is a guy who earlier in his career who was subject to rampant speculation that he was color blind.

Drew has a stronger arm and greater accuracy, and as mentioned won't wear down over the course of the year.

I don't see anything here compelling enough to definitively state that Drew can't reproduce Vinny's first half last year over 16 games, given everyone stays healthy.

I am not advocating Henson over Bledsoe. That makes sense when you are out of playoff contention. If we are out of shouting distance, we might see him. But otherwise, we will get the "best chance to win" business we got late last year until the bitter end. Sorry, if you want Drew, you better watch ESPN classic replays or hope for injury.

I want Henson when he's ready to play NFL calibre football. Not a moment before. Till then I'll make do with what we have.

You used "significantly" better.

What is "significantly" better? I simply think we get similar results. If you think significantly better is a slightly better int/TD ratio, then I agree.

If Vinny's numbers had tracked the same over the course of the 2nd 8 games as they did the first, he would have thrown for 4000 yards, 18 TDs and 14 INTs.

The 4000 yards won't happen because we WILL highlight Julius (who Bill loves as much as he ever did Drew), but Drew threw 20 TDs/16 INTs last year on what I consider an inferior offense with a far inferior coach in a tougher Conference. Yes, I think he can 'significantly' improve those TD/INT numbers this year on this team.

Note, I'm NOT saying he WILL. I'm saying he I don't believe it to be a real stretch to believe he COULD. Not any more so than your belief that he WONT.

The best we can hope for, but that does not mean love it.

When you can't provide even one viable option that Bill had, your criticism is meaningless. For all we know Bill is sitting in his office right now saying "Cripes, how did I wind up with this guy as my starting QB, and how the hell am I going to keep him vertical?"

Reality is what it is. Good QBs just don't hit the FA market very often, and of what was available this year the best option was Bledsoe.

No, you don't have to like it. And certainly you are entitled to your opinion as to Drew's eventual effectiveness here. Just as certain other people are entitled to theirs that a reunion with Bill will bring out the best of what talent's Drew has left at this point in his career.

For all your 'rose-colored glasses' accusations, you are simply mirroring their 'false' hopes from the other side.

Here, have some Kool-Aid. Its tasty and refreshing....

 

[ravidubey]

Rally around the qb in Dallas a tradition, surely you jest. Maybe you should have said rally around the pocket qb.

Carter experienced Jerry-backlash from the fans, much like Bledsoe is getting "Parcells-guys" backlash now. Carter was a decent prospect who ultimately could not handle the mental aspect of being QB, partly because of how he was developed. He is one of many NFL QB prospects that come and go-- normally no big deal, except for the fact that he was unfairly put under the biggest spotlight in the NFL by Jerry Jones and WAY too early at that. In New York, he was on his way to proving he can be a solid backup QB in this league, until he apparently lost his marbles. I wish him nothing but the best, but am glad he's no longer a Cowboy.

Bledsoe is an above average passer with much higher pedigree who has played at a high level in the NFL yet has not fared well vs. elite competition. Whatever Bledsoe's faults may be, you can't question his arm strength, class, heart, and toughness-- all things that were issues with Quincy. He's going to pleasantly surprise a lot of Cowboy fans this season.

 

[Alexander]

I said better receiving options.

Glenn, KJ, Whitten, JJ > Moulds, Evans, Campbell, McGahee

That is a wash at best. Witten is a great deal better than Campbell, but I would take both WRs over ours and Jones is an inferior pass receiver to McGahee IMO.

OMG a rookie!!!! That completely destroys a line comprised of a future HOFer still playing at a high level (and reportedly in his best physical condition in years), 2 other multi-year Pro Bowlers and a 2nd round draft pick in his '2nd' year (for all intents and purposes).

It all depends on how optimistic you are about Rivera's back and Peterman's ability to start. Rivera, if healthy, is a huge help. And are you completely assured that Allen is a better tackle than guard? As for Peterman, he was not ready to start last season and was not exactly doing great when he ripped up his knee. I don't think he is going to be able to pull off an outstanding recovery like Al Johnson did. Nor do I think he is or was as talented as Al. Johnson was handed a starting job the day he was drafted. Peterman was thrown into a mix at LG. At no time last year was he even considered anything above a depth player.

And if the line is so bad, then that only further proves JJ is a better runner than McGahee.

Flip that one back around. If Buffalo had the worst OL in the league and that led to Bledsoe's issues, how on earth did McGahee do so well? You said it best, splitting hairs. But you know as well as I did that a healthy McGahee was considered a top ten RB in college. Jones happened to be a Parcells find. But based upon previous results, and adding in both backs limited time last year, I am inclined to give the edge slightly to McGahee.

So in your opinion, he can't do what a 41 year old QB who is among the most infamous Interception throwers in NFL history did. Gotchya.

It is counterbalanced. Vinny was Interceptaverde. Bledsoe takes sacks and fumbles the ball with an equally alarming frequency.

Drew has had some monster seasons in the past. If his inability to sense the rush and get rid of the ball was of such debilitating Hutch proportions, he would have been run out of the league years ago, not gone to the Pro Bowl just 3 years ago.

The Pro Bowl three seasons ago is irrelevant. We are not getting that player with the same skills. They have eroded and his weaknesses then are even more profound now.

The more likely explanation is that while it is a weakness (and I'm not saying its not), his coaching and personnel have not been good enough to cover it, as they were in years past.

I would not stretch it that far.

The coaching is negated by the fact that Bledsoe has often not been coachable to begin with. So if he does not take advice, then the results he produces on his own freelancing are his responsibility. And from what has been whispered out of Buffalo, he did just that. He wants to air it out and still believes he can. I pray Parcells tells him to shut up and here is what we are doing. Treat him just like he did Quincy and I think we have a chance to be okay. If not, forget it.

With the *possible* exception of Vinny/Henson, name ONE player of any signifigance who got anything resembling real playing time over a more talented player because he was a "Parcell's Guy". Name one time Parcells didn't put players in the best positions to succeed because he 'liked' someone.

You could throw Antonio Bryant (Keyshawn Johnson) out there. ReShard Lee (Eddie George) as well. I am not saying I believe it, but if madmen talk about things enough, there usually is some truth to it.

Hell, name one time Bill has gone "Air Parcells" - even in the Patriots/Bledsoe heyday the play selection was 50/50. And after severely spanking Drew 2 years ago in 2003 with blitzes up the middle, do you really think Bill is that stupid that he is going to open up Drew to that same kind of abuse? Are you that irrationally cynical of Parcells?

I am not sure what to believe. Logic states he won't. But I never thought he would do what he did last season. He made some strange decisions. Enough to make you pause and think. Add in someone he is familiar with, and it is tough to totally rule out him doing the unpredictable. I am not betting the farm and I hope what you say is true, I really do.

Vinny is also a far worse decision maker, often forces things that are simply not there, and had several key fumbles/Ints that lost games last year. Once Glenn went down he tunnel visioned on KJ at times, and everyone in the stadium knew it.

Vinny could also avoid the rush better and used his checkdowns better.

I think Testeverde was better "trained" than Bledsoe is because there was a shorter gap between Parcells exposure. Now we are going even further back. I would not put past Coach Parcells having to chew Drew out more than a few times as the season goes along for falling into the very bad habits that he has.

Drew has a stronger arm and greater accuracy, and as mentioned won't wear down over the course of the year.

I don't deny that. At the same time, I don't see those skills as making him head and shoulders better than what we had. Slightly? Maybe. Drastically, absolutely not.

I don't see anything here compelling enough to definitively state that Drew can't reproduce Vinny's first half last year over 16 games, given everyone stays healthy.

Conversely, I don't see any evidence that he will be able to do much more than he did in Buffalo last year. And that is well below what Testeverde did in the first half last year.

I don't expect that. If that occurs, then our running game is a failure.

I want Henson when he's ready to play NFL calibre football. Not a moment before. Till then I'll make do with what we have.

No argument here.

If Vinny's numbers had tracked the same over the course of the 2nd 8 games as they did the first, he would have thrown for 4000 yards, 18 TDs and 14 INTs.

The 4000 yards won't happen because we WILL highlight Julius (who Bill loves as much as he ever did Drew), but Drew threw 20 TDs/16 INTs last year on what I consider an inferior offense with a far inferior coach in a tougher Conference. Yes, I think he can 'significantly' improve those TD/INT numbers this year on this team.

Note, I'm NOT saying he WILL. I'm saying he I don't believe it to be a real stretch to believe he COULD. Not any more so than your belief that he WONT.

Fair enough. I don't consider his chances of doing as you say nill. The 4000 yards? Absolutely positively no way. The 20 TDs are a bit high. I do think he has a positive TD to INT ratio, but his fumbles will account for the fewer INTs in my estimation.

When you can't provide even one viable option that Bill had, your criticism is meaningless. For all we know Bill is sitting in his office right now saying "Cripes, how did I wind up with this guy as my starting QB, and how the hell am I going to keep him vertical?"

If that was as much of a concern, then I think we would have gone after a RT with more urgency. But we added a RG, crossed our fingers he could help whomever we had and drafted/signed two running backs.

That tells me that we will run the ball frequently. I firmly hope that we do.

Reality is what it is. Good QBs just don't hit the FA market very often, and of what was available this year the best option was Bledsoe.

Another case where it is hard to argue. Nothing from nothing equals nothing.

Here, have some Kool-Aid. Its tasty and refreshing....

You will forgive me for seeing it is grape and is being handed to me by Reverend Jim Jones.

 

[dboyz]

Doesn't that bother anyone that Parcells has to "control" him?

Can we add another thing to his plate?

Make draft choices.

Install 3-4 defense.

Hold Mike Zimmer's hand.

Call offensive plays.

Control Drew Bledsoe.

I know he is a control freak, but does he really need or want this kind of control?

It doesn't bother me at all. I think Parcells is very clear and direct with his QB's and he's been quite effective. Maybe what Bledsoe needs is someone like Parcells who will scream at him when he holds the ball too long. For the most part, I don't think we're going to expect Bledsoe to carry us in games. He's just a piece of the puzzle.

Parcells has won with Simms (a pretty good QB) Hostetler (average) Testaverde (who had his best seasons by far under Parcells)

As far as what Bledsoe we're going to see this year, I really have no idea, but
I'm hopeful that Parcells can bring the best out of what Bledsoe has left.