Bledsoe: Sacks and Options

[ravidubey]

That is a wash at best. Witten is a great deal better than Campbell, but I would take both WRs over ours and Jones is an inferior pass receiver to McGahee IMO.

The point here is there were few if any open intermediate options-- key to freeing up things deep and helping with the blitz. McGahee was average as a receiver. Moulds is a star but I would take either of our receivers over the Lee Evans of 2004.

It all depends on how optimistic you are about Rivera's back and Peterman's ability to start. Rivera, if healthy, is a huge help. And are you completely assured that Allen is a better tackle than guard? As for Peterman, he was not ready to start last season and was not exactly doing great when he ripped up his knee. I don't think he is going to be able to pull off an outstanding recovery like Al Johnson did. Nor do I think he is or was as talented as Al. Johnson was handed a starting job the day he was drafted. Peterman was thrown into a mix at LG. At no time last year was he even considered anything above a depth player.

This is just being argumentative. A line with three prowbowlers is better than a line without even a single one.

Flip that one back around. If Buffalo had the worst OL in the league and that led to Bledsoe's issues, how on earth did McGahee do so well?

Buffalo's line is better at run blocking. Pass blocking is another skill entirely. For example, in recent years the right side of the Cowboys OL has been good at pass blocking.

It is counterbalanced. Vinny was Interceptaverde. Bledsoe takes sacks and fumbles the ball with an equally alarming frequency.

Vinny was awful as a Jet in 2003 and yet far better as a Cowboy in 2004. As a coach you can do things to limit sacks and thus hopefully any resulting fumbles, but you can't do a thing about a QB who makes bad decisions and throws picks.

The Pro Bowl three seasons ago is irrelevant. We are not getting that player with the same skills. They have eroded and his weaknesses then are even more profound now.

I disagree. I don't think his skills have eroded this much. I agree age has played a part in some negative stats, but the situation has affected things more.

The coaching is negated by the fact that Bledsoe has often not been coachable to begin with. So if he does not take advice, then the results he produces on his own freelancing are his responsibility. And from what has been whispered out of Buffalo, he did just that. He wants to air it out and still believes he can.

He did not trust his coaches in Buffalo and with good reason.

Logic states he won't.

Not logic; you are projecting his 2005 performance to be identical or far worse than his performance in Buffalo by factoring all other things equal and only making Bledsoe one year older. IMO that's flawed reasoning.

I think Testeverde was better "trained" than Bledsoe is because there was a shorter gap between Parcells exposure. Now we are going even further back. I would not put past Coach Parcells having to chew Drew out more than a few times as the season goes along for falling into the very bad habits that he has.

There may be something to this but I doubt it. These two trust each other and the proof of that is they are together yet again.

I don't deny that. At the same time, I don't see those skills as making him head and shoulders better than what we had. Slightly? Maybe. Drastically, absolutely not.

Drew is way better than either Quincy or VT.

Conversely, I don't see any evidence that he will be able to do much more than he did in Buffalo last year. And that is well below what Testeverde did in the first half last year.

- Better Coaching
- Better Intermediate Receivers. Keyshawn and Witten will help him more than Eric Moulds and a rookie could last year. You need a range of options to be succesful passing, and Buffalo was stunted both short and intermediate last year. At least he had Larry Centers in 2002.
- Better pass blocking.
- Equal running game
- Equal short passing game
- Weaker, but still very capable deep receivers (when healthy).

 

[kartr]

There you go again.

Care to define "pocket QB"?

I think Carter was a "pocket QB" because he certainly did better from the pocket with his feet set.

I define a "pocket qb" as a stiff who can't create on his own when he has to,i.e. one dimensional. I prefer an Elway to a Marino, a Steve Young to a Kerry Collins. I think of Carter as a "pocket QB" also, but a mobile one. I think all "good QB's" are pocket ones, but to me the best ones have enough mobility to make defenses pay. I do prefer Carter to Bledsoe, but I also prefer Carter to Vick also. I consider Vick, a smaller version of Vince Young, but nevertheless, a winner, but an exception to the rule. The whole point in my statement was that so many here have made an enormous amount of excuses for a qb that has lost his last two jobs and hasn't done anything for this team yet. Where was that support for Carter before Aug. 04 last year?

 

[wileedog]

That is a wash at best. Witten is a great deal better than Campbell, but I would take both WRs over ours and Jones is an inferior pass receiver to McGahee IMO.

I like Jones better in space, and i think we'll use him more there via the short pass this year.

Moulds is the best of the WR lot, but Glenn was having a better season last year before he went down.I'd take KJ over Evans (for this season - obviously long term I want Evans). He adds much more to the team than just receiving.

Whitten is, as mentioned, far better, and even Morgan at #3 (assuming no shoulder problems) is still better than anyone else on Buffalo's roster past Moulds/Evans.

For 2005, I take what we have.

It all depends on how optimistic you are about Rivera's back and Peterman's ability to start. Rivera, if healthy, is a huge help. And are you completely assured that Allen is a better tackle than guard? As for Peterman, he was not ready to start last season and was not exactly doing great when he ripped up his knee. I don't think he is going to be able to pull off an outstanding recovery like Al Johnson did. Nor do I think he is or was as talented as Al. Johnson was handed a starting job the day he was drafted. Peterman was thrown into a mix at LG. At no time last year was he even considered anything above a depth player.

I've seen nothing to suggest there will be ongoing problems with Rivera's back. He will be going full contact in camp, and is a massive upgrade to Gurode. Don't forget Campbell is back as well, who is a premeire run blocking TE.

And maybe I missed something, but is Allen definately going to Tackle (I've been out of the loop a few weeks)?

It is counterbalanced. Vinny was Interceptaverde. Bledsoe takes sacks and fumbles the ball with an equally alarming frequency.

Which makes my point. You are saying the Bledsoe will do worse than Vinny.

If they are 'counterbalanced', then why will Bledsoe do worse than Vinny?

The Pro Bowl three seasons ago is irrelevant. We are not getting that player with the same skills. They have eroded and his weaknesses then are even more profound now.

How does age affect decision-making skills?

Hell, Vinny's got better as he got older. Most QBs do.

Looks more like Bledsoe was allowed to get into a lot of bad habits like waiting on ERic Moulds to get open all the time because for a while he had no one else but a rookie to throw the ball to.

Bad habits can be broken.

I would not stretch it that far.

The coaching is negated by the fact that Bledsoe has often not been coachable to begin with. So if he does not take advice, then the results he produces on his own freelancing are his responsibility. And from what has been whispered out of Buffalo, he did just that. He wants to air it out and still believes he can. I pray Parcells tells him to shut up and here is what we are doing. Treat him just like he did Quincy and I think we have a chance to be okay. If not, forget it.

Again, I don't highly doubt Bill will put up with free-lancing. Its one of the things which got Antonio shipped out of here.

The MORE LIKELY scenario is that gets nipped in the bud the first time Bledsoe tries it in training camp or in a game.

You could throw Antonio Bryant (Keyshawn Johnson) out there.

And maybe if Antonio had kept his big trap shut, not threw a jersey in his coaches face, worked hard and blocked when he got in games and didn't freelance routes he would have had a chance to take that job away.

Keyshawn didn't get one ounce of playing time that should have been Antonio's because Antonio was a idiot.

ReShard Lee (Eddie George) as well.

Eddie George the career Titan is a 'Parcells Guy?"

Vinny could also avoid the rush better and used his checkdowns better.

I think Testeverde was better "trained" than Bledsoe is because there was a shorter gap between Parcells exposure. Now we are going even further back. I would not put past Coach Parcells having to chew Drew out more than a few times as the season goes along for falling into the very bad habits that he has.

I think most of the chewing will come in training camp.

Again, habits can be broken. ANd if there's one guy who can break them its Parcells.

Which is why many people are happier with this signing because of the coach. If we still had Campo, trust me I would be crying about this right along with ya.

I don't deny that. At the same time, I don't see those skills as making him head and shoulders better than what we had. Slightly? Maybe. Drastically, absolutely not.

Conversely, I don't see any evidence that he will be able to do much more than he did in Buffalo last year. And that is well below what Testeverde did in the first half last year.

Again, you're contradicting yourself.

You've said several time that Drew is 'slightly' better than Vinny, yet somehow he cannot manage to reproduce what Vinny did last year before he physically broke down? And all because Vinny knows how to "check down" better?

I'm sure Favre will be lauded for his 'checking down' skills at his Canton ceremony....

Fair enough. I don't consider his chances of doing as you say nill. The 4000 yards? Absolutely positively no way. The 20 TDs are a bit high. I do think he has a positive TD to INT ratio, but his fumbles will account for the fewer INTs in my estimation.

He had 6 whole fumbles last year.

Vinny had 7 in 2001, BTW.

That tells me that we will run the ball frequently. I firmly hope that we do.

I wouldn't worry about it. We didn't draft Barber and sign A-Train because we expected Julius to have a light workload.

You will forgive me for seeing it is grape and is being handed to me by Reverend Jim Jones.

Beats dying of thirst.

 

[kartr]

Oh, I don't know Kartr. I think most Cowboy fans rallied around Carter. The difference being, some did it to sacrafice "Hutcher's" in offering and some did it to stack the wood at his feet so that the fire could be lite, post haste.

It's really all in the way you view it.

:laugh2:

And what did Hutch do in Chicago in 5 starts when he had his chance?
Right now it looks like Grossman's knee isn't going to hold up and they're already talking about how good Kyle Orton looks. Apparently, Orton is showing more than the 'great Hutch'.

 

[Alexander]

This is just being argumentative. A line with three prowbowlers is better than a line without even a single one.

I never said Buffalo's line was close. That is being argumentative.

He did not trust his coaches in Buffalo and with good reason.

Please elaborate how this was a lack of trust as opposed to having his own opinion and refusing to take direction.

- Better Intermediate Receivers. Keyshawn and Witten will help him more than Eric Moulds and a rookie could last year. You need a range of options to be succesful passing, and Buffalo was stunted both short and intermediate last year. At least he had Larry Centers in 2002.

He is not particularly fond of using intermediate receivers and feels most comfortable slinging it downfield. This is not an advantage.

 

[Doomsday101]

I never said Buffalo's line was close. That is being argumentative.



Please elaborate how this was a lack of trust as opposed to having his own opinion and refusing to take direction.



He is not particularly fond of using intermediate receivers and feels most comfortable slinging it downfield. This is not an advantage.

Bledsoe did not have a problem with Intermediat routs when he had someone who could run them.

 

[Jarv]

That 1st list ! He had to pass to Bjornson ?

 

[blindzebra]

I define a "pocket qb" as a stiff who can't create on his own when he has to,i.e. one dimensional. I prefer an Elway to a Marino, a Steve Young to a Kerry Collins. I think of Carter as a "pocket QB" also, but a mobile one. I think all "good QB's" are pocket ones, but to me the best ones have enough mobility to make defenses pay. I do prefer Carter to Bledsoe, but I also prefer Carter to Vick also. I consider Vick, a smaller version of Vince Young, but nevertheless, a winner, but an exception to the rule. The whole point in my statement was that so many here have made an enormous amount of excuses for a qb that has lost his last two jobs and hasn't done anything for this team yet. Where was that support for Carter before Aug. 04 last year?

Pretty easy to tell it's a lie when you contradict yourself in just two sentences.

Now how about your REAL definition.:jerk:

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And what did Hutch do in Chicago in 5 starts when he had his chance?
Right now it looks like Grossman's knee isn't going to hold up and they're already talking about how good Kyle Orton looks. Apparently, Orton is showing more than the 'great Hutch'.

Apparently, he did enough to secure the number 2 spot, or at least, that's what his HC and OC said earlier this year. He posted a 73.6 QB rating. He had more TDs then INTs. and he had a 57.1 Comp%. All this after only 9 pro starts in the NFL.

In any event, this discussion is not about Hutchinson. Honestly, how is Hutchinson relivant to this discussion?

 

[kartr]

Carter experienced Jerry-backlash from the fans, much like Bledsoe is getting "Parcells-guys" backlash now. Carter was a decent prospect who ultimately could not handle the mental aspect of being QB, partly because of how he was developed. He is one of many NFL QB prospects that come and go-- normally no big deal, except for the fact that he was unfairly put under the biggest spotlight in the NFL by Jerry Jones and WAY too early at that. In New York, he was on his way to proving he can be a solid backup QB in this league, until he apparently lost his marbles. I wish him nothing but the best, but am glad he's no longer a Cowboy.

Bledsoe is an above average passer with much higher pedigree who has played at a high level in the NFL yet has not fared well vs. elite competition. Whatever Bledsoe's faults may be, you can't question his arm strength, class, heart, and toughness-- all things that were issues with Quincy. He's going to pleasantly surprise a lot of Cowboy fans this season.

By pedigree, do you mean his draft position? Cause Ryan Leaf, Heath, Schuler, Rick Mirer and many others have been drafted in the 1st round and haven't had as good a career as Carter.

I can question Bledsoe's judgement on the field in holding the ball too long, something that no 12 year NFL veteran should have to be taught.

I can question Bledsoe's intangibles since he has been welcomed everywhere he has been, but was booted out as a disappointing failure after being given every opportunity to prove his 'metal'.

Carter was never welcomed in Dallas the way he should have been and was given little in the way of supporting cast, yet found a way to win with what he had. He also had more detractors than supporters in Dallas, yet kept his head up. There is your heart,class and toughness.For every year he as been in the NFL he has been in the top 5 of longest completions for a TD. There is your arm strength,also Joey Galloway had his highest YPC with Carter and so did Santana Moss.

Bledsoe will flop in Dallas, cause he's flopped everywhere else he has been. Even a great defense and having a first and second caliber running back couldn't help him get to the playoffs the last few years.

 

[Doomsday101]

Apparently, he did enough to secure the number 2 spot, or at least, that's what his HC and OC said earlier this year. He posted a 73.6 QB rating. He had more TDs then INTs. and he had a 57.1 Comp%. All this after only 9 pro starts in the NFL.

In any event, this discussion is not about Hutchinson. Honestly, how is Hutchinson relivant to this discussion?

And what team is taking a chance on the great Quincy Carter! All this talk about a QB who can't find a team. LOL

 

[Alexander]

Bledsoe did not have a problem with Intermediat routs when he had someone who could run them.

He has always been a QB who looks downfield first and goes through his progressions very slowly. If you think he is an accurate intermediate passer, then you apparently have been watching a different QB than I have.

Coach Parcells better have the shock collar on and limit his reads to half the field like he did with Carter.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Where was that support for Carter before Aug. 04 last year?

This, above all else, is mystifiying to me. All I can assume is that you were not hear much before last year. Carter enjoyed unreal amounts of support from many, many fans up to the realization of his issues, last year. Even after, the support was still there. I think it really only started to fade away after the whole Jets thing. Even now, there are several fans who continue to support this guy. I can not imagine that you, of all people, can not see what is painfully clear, where that's concerned.

Interesting that you refuse to acknowledge this.

 

[JDSmith]

Bledsoe should be a significant improvement over Vinny. Vinny was simply shot and got worse as the season progressed. Bledsoe, with all his flaws, will have a better cast around him than he has (and by cast I mean coach and players) and should play better than he did in Buffalo - which would make him better than what we've fielded lately. I don't think Bledsoe will be a great QB, I don't think he'll be a very good QB. But he can be an above average QB in the right situation IMO, and that's enough to win the way Parcells wants to play. To me an above average QB, even slightly above average, is a significant improvement over someone like Viny, who IMO was slightly below average overall on the year - and by the end of the season a good bit below average. I don't think it would a a stretch to say that in the last quarter of the season Vinny pretty well stunk.

 

[Doomsday101]

He has always been a QB who looks downfield first and goes through his progressions very slowly. If you think he is an accurate intermediate passer, then you apparently have been watching a different QB than I have.

Coach Parcells better have the shock collar on and limit his reads to half the field like he did with Carter.

Believe it or not Parcells knows Bledsoe and has had success with him, he did damn good With Coat running the intermediate routs and I think he will do good with Witten and Key running the intermediate routs. No doubt we will take our shots down field. Bledsoe numbers took a dive when the new coaching staff came into place you may not want to believe that and that is your choice. We will find out soon enough about how Bledsoe will do and I'm more than willing to let Bledsoe play speak for itself, If he plays poorly I will say so but if he shows he still has something left I will also say so.

 

[kartr]

Pretty easy to tell it's a lie when you contradict yourself in just two sentences.

Now how about your REAL definition.:jerk:

What is the contradiction? People mean different things when they say "pocket qb". People who don't like QB's with mobility act as if only "pocket stiffs" are intelligent enough to read defenses. My point was that Young and Elway could beat you in the pocket or on the run. Marino was a one-dimensional pocket qb and so is Bledsoe and so is Kerry Collins, but the difference lies in the mobility option. "Mobile Pocket Passers" such as Elway,Montana,Young can beat you more than one way. So when I speak with disdain about "pocket passers", I'm talking about the Marinos and Bledsoes, not the others. I believe you understood me anyway, your just playing word games.

 

[Jarv]

Bledsoe should be a significant improvement over Vinny. Vinny was simply shot and got worse as the season progressed. Bledsoe, with all his flaws, will have a better cast around him than he has (and by cast I mean coach and players) and should play better than he did in Buffalo - which would make him better than what we've fielded lately. I don't think Bledsoe will be a great QB, I don't think he'll be a very good QB. But he can be an above average QB in the right situation IMO, and that's enough to win the way Parcells wants to play. To me an above average QB, even slightly above average, is a significant improvement over someone like Viny, who IMO was slightly below average overall on the year - and by the end of the season a good bit below average. I don't think it would a a stretch to say that in the last quarter of the season Vinny pretty well stunk.

Yeah, Vinny's arm was like rubber at the end of the year.

I just have this bad feeling about Bledsoe. I don't think he's an above average QB anymore. Hope one of the younguns beats him out.

 

[junk]

I agree.

Carter had many many supporters.

It is only since his drug issues that the dog pile began.

I started about midseason in 2003. It started to become pretty apparent that the guy was limited as a QB.

To hear some tell it around here, the guy is the best thing since sliced bread. Better even than Vick (who is overrated anyway). :laugh2:

Funny though, teams and GMs haven't bothered to sign him yet. Crazy how a guy with that much talent is still out on the street.

 

[kartr]

Apparently, he did enough to secure the number 2 spot, or at least, that's what his HC and OC said earlier this year. He posted a 73.6 QB rating. He had more TDs then INTs. and he had a 57.1 Comp%. All this after only 9 pro starts in the NFL.

In any event, this discussion is not about Hutchinson. Honestly, how is Hutchinson relivant to this discussion?

I thought you mentioned his name, that's why I brought it up. Where do you get 9 starts, he started 9 games for Dallas and 5 games for Chicago. If he can win 10 games for Chicago in 2005, you might have a point, but he wont.
Securing the number 2 spot in Chicago, whose QB's are the worst in the NFL is nothing to crow about.

 

[junk]

Bledsoe is what he is. He is probably going to be a slight step up from Vinny and Carter. I don't think he has the skills to carry a team at this point and his weaknesses have been exposed.

However, this team HAD to have a veteran QB and I don't know that there was really anyone else out there that was worth a darn. Plus, he came dirt cheap. The team can jettison him at just about any time without incurring much of a cap hit.

Also, Dallas went and drafted tons of defensive players, stocked up the RB position and added an interior lineman (interesting how RT was the priority until AFTER the Bledsoe signing when the Rivera signing was sprung on us). A strong defense, a strong running game and strong OL. Sounds like a QB's best friends (young or old).

How well will he do? I guess we'll see, but this was the best place for him. If anyone can get through to him, it will be Parcells. Things have been set up for him to succeed and, if he doesn't, its all on him this time.