Bob McGinn's Scout's Comments on Zack Martin

[jterrell]

Fail. Seattle and SF are the two best teams in the league now. Why? Look in the trenches.

please stop with that.

Seattle is very deep and quite good but not great on the DL but has a mediocre OL that is well below Dallas.
They have an all-time great DB group which is why they just paid a fortune to two DBs in the week leading up to this draft.
They also have an outstanding RB.

SF has a very good overall team that is loaded with high draft picks everywhere from a decade of sucking.
They've got a 6th overall pick at TE, 10th overall at WR, 11th overall at MLB, 18th overall at FS.
They are the best LB corps in the league by far when Bowman is healthy and Aldon Smith takes his meds.

 

[Leadbelly]

1. ZACK MARTIN, Notre Dame (6-4, 309, 5.2, 1) – Started a school-record 52 games, all at LT. "Love him," one scout said. "Not a real bulky guy. All I know is he's got a great jam and can punch the hell out of you. Nobody beats him. Everybody keeps wanting to move him inside. Well, you better have somebody that can block those outside rushers." Height and arm length (327/8) make a move to guard or even center seem inevitable if not immediate. "Damn good," said another scout. "He might be as safe a pick as there is. I like him better than the (David) DeCastro kid (from the 2012 draft). DeCastro never could have played left tackle at Notre Dame." Two-time captain from Indianapolis. Wonderlic scores of 21 and 27. "Much better player than (Justin) Pugh a year ago," a third scout said. "This guy's a tougher, stronger guy. He can get you out of a game as a tackle but he'll be a really good guard."

And if you read those notes McGinn collects from scouts, 99% of the time it's one scout who loves the player, one who thinks he's a bum, and one who's kind of meh. I think it's pretty telling that all three love him.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Trenches are overrated. Not saying they're not important. Just overrated.

Have you ever watched football?

 

[jterrell]

He may not be as powerful as Warmack or athletic as Cooper but he moves well in the running game and is the best pass protector of the three. He could actually play LT if they had to. He's definitely better than DeCastro who guys were nuttin over a few years ago.

He's a lot like Frederick, just a lot more athletic.

He's a better OT prospect then either I'd agree. But he isn't the pure OG either is.
Warmack is pure power a la older Larry Allen; Cooper is simply a better athlete a la a younger Larry Allen.

I think Martin is a very good and versatile prospect but I don't see him as elite at any one spot.
I simply think he is already close to his ceiling.

I do think he is a better player than Frederick and had we gotten him at 22-26 I'd be stoked.
Just not happy he was the best choice at 16 because I don't see the great fit here or early impact since we were already solid on the OL but sucked terribly on defense.

 

[Leadbelly]

I think he slammed it down because he lost the connection, literally hanging up on whomever he was talking to.

Sprint network. Official NFL provider. Drops calls all the time (much like the refs).

 

[manster4ever]

I've been saying it for YEARS....we have to re-build from the inside out....interior lines have to take first priority. JJ is seeing the light. Don't know or care who has his ear, just that they do. It's the only way to get this train back on the tracks IMO

 

[manster4ever]

He is the only guy who stonewalled Aaron Doanld at the Senior Bowl

Just saying.

I didn't know that Hos, but it isn't a shock. Martin is the kinda guy Donald will struggle with in the NFL. Donald is a nice player but was overrated IMO. I said that months ago and I never changed my mind. Not vastly overrated mind you...but he went about 10 picks too soon

 

[jterrell]

I didn't know that Hos, but it isn't a shock. Martin is the kinda guy Donald will struggle with in the NFL. Donald is a nice player but was overrated IMO. I said that months ago and I never changed my mind. Not vastly overrated mind you...but he went about 10 picks too soon

Donald on that Rams team will be insane. That is one super scary DL.
If they get any offense that team is as good as San Fran.

 

[speedkilz88]

He's a better OT prospect then either I'd agree. But he isn't the pure OG either is.
Warmack is pure power a la older Larry Allen; Cooper is simply a better athlete a la a younger Larry Allen.

I think Martin is a very good and versatile prospect but I don't see him as elite at any one spot.
I simply think he is already close to his ceiling.

I do think he is a better player than Frederick and had we gotten him at 22-26 I'd be stoked.
Just not happy he was the best choice at 16 because I don't see the great fit here or early impact since we were already solid on the OL but sucked terribly on defense.

Cooper isn't that powerful. They are closer than you think in that area. Cooper is extremely athletic but still isn't the pass protector that Martin is and Martin moves pretty easily on run plays.

 

[jterrell]

Cooper isn't that powerful. They are closer than you think in that area. Cooper is extremely athletic but still isn't the pass protector that Martin is and Martin moves pretty easily on run plays.

Cooper put up 35 reps at 225 and had a zillion pancake blocks at UNC.
He is very powerful.

Martin has shorter arms than either Cooper or Warmack. Warmack actually has arms long enough to play OT.

I think as an OG prospect Martin is similar to DeCastro. Comes in with great technique so unlikely to see surprising jump but should work way into long term starter status and lock down a spot for years.
DeCastro went at 24.
In that area I'd have loved Martin.

But it is what it is.

Hopefully we get some help on defense in next few rounds. We need it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He may not be as powerful as Warmack or athletic as Cooper but he moves well in the running game and is the best pass protector of the three. He could actually play LT if they had to. He's definitely better than DeCastro who guys were nuttin over a few years ago.

He's a lot like Frederick, just a lot more athletic.

I have to say that Warmacks power is about as overrated as there is. Martin is more pwerful than Warmack. You can tell by the impact their punch has and how they drive and finish blocks. You can tell by the combine results.

 

[manster4ever]

Donald on that Rams team will be insane. That is one super scary DL.
If they get any offense that team is as good as San Fran.

No argument...Fisher is just killing it there...front office too. Just a fantastic job overall.

 

[manster4ever]

Cooper put up 35 reps at 225 and had a zillion pancake blocks at UNC.
He is very powerful.

Martin has shorter arms than either Cooper or Warmack. Warmack actually has arms long enough to play OT.

I think as an OG prospect Martin is similar to DeCastro. Comes in with great technique so unlikely to see surprising jump but should work way into long term starter status and lock down a spot for years.
DeCastro went at 24.
In that area I'd have loved Martin.

But it is what it is.

Hopefully we get some help on defense in next few rounds. We need it.

HAVE to disagree...Martin is a much better player at this stage than DeCastro was. As the scout was quoted above said: "DeCastro would not have started at Tackle and been a Captain at ND"

 

[jterrell]

I have to say that Warmacks power is about as overrated as there is. Martin is more pwerful than Warmack. You can tell by the impact their punch has and how they drive and finish blocks. You can tell by the combine results.

Warmack didn't test at the combine or pro day for strength so not sure what you are talking about.

Warmack dominated SEC DTs like very few players ever have.
Martin was very impressive but played outside at OT versus much, much smaller guys.
Playing the ND schedule and the Bama schedule aren't exactly equal in DL talent.

Where Martin truly shined was at the Senior Bowl.
There he did prove he could handle much bigger guys with ease.
But Warmack had 2 years of that on tape.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Cooper put up 35 reps at 225 and had a zillion pancake blocks at UNC.
He is very powerful.

Martin has shorter arms than either Cooper or Warmack. Warmack actually has arms long enough to play OT.

I think as an OG prospect Martin is similar to DeCastro. Comes in with great technique so unlikely to see surprising jump but should work way into long term starter status and lock down a spot for years.
DeCastro went at 24.
In that area I'd have loved Martin.

But it is what it is.

Hopefully we get some help on defense in next few rounds. We need it.

Gotta have a trade down partner and apparently we didn't....at least not for a reasonable value. I LOVE Martin compared to the possible pick of Shazier.

 

[MRV52]

Trenches are overrated. Not saying they're not important. Just overrated.

Games are won in the trenches thats old school. You build a team from the trenches first if you want to get anywhere.

 

[hutch1254]

I could not believe the Gints passed on Martin to go WR. I figued Martin would get picked for sure at 12 seeing as their Oline needs help and Eli's ankle issue. I understand they lost a WR and were looking to fill that bill but the WR group is deep...they could have drafted Martin and then snagged WR later.

Great for us though. Road graders paving the way.

 

[Idgit]

Haven't seen anyone say they dislike the pick actually.
He's a safe pick and a BPA pick.

Problem for me is a trade down would have been by far preferred.
I like Sua-Filo better than Martin as a guard.
And pick 16 for me has to be a truly elite OG.
Not sure Martin is that.
He's an older incoming player with great technique walking in the door so he'll be fine but his ceiling isn't where Warmack/Cooper is and that's what I want at pick 16 in an OG.

Cowboys may well get great value by using Martin at RG for a year then moving him to RT for the remainder of his career.
This could turn out very, very well for Dallas... but that's more a long term look.
And if I was looking long term Manziel would have been my guy.

If nothing else I'd take Manziel and see if Cleveland/Zona or someone else then bites.

I feel much the same way you seem to, but it was still the right pick to make under the circumstances (assuming the trade down option was really not acceptable). That's all we can really ask for.

There are going to be DL/DE options for us in the next two rounds, and more below them. It's not ideal, but if we scout well and draft our board, the team will eventually get better.

If you haven't seen the article @honeyhock posted last night yet, it's worth a read. There's something to be said for diversifying to fill a need. The unit was so bad last year, that the good news is that improvement is relatively easy.

And then, you never know where you're going to need your depth. Unless we're talking about the Cowboys the last two years, where you could pretty much predict injuries based off of where we were thin to start out.

 

[jterrell]

HAVE to disagree...Martin is a much better player at this stage than DeCastro was. As the scout was quoted above said: "DeCastro would not have started at Tackle and been a Captain at ND"

I was one of VERY few people saying NOT to draft DeCastro (unless we traded down into 20s) but he was clearly the top OG prospect in his class.
He was simply the top OG at a far better school than ND, lol.
DeCastro blocked for Andrew Luck so captain status wasn't gonna happen... it might have at ND.

Part of what you buy with Martin is his flexibility. That's most like Mike Iupati who went 17th. --and I DID love him coming out.
If you get Iupati then you've won.
That guy is a 2 time Pro Bowler and has one All Pro already.
But he is 330 pounds!!
That's what I want at OG.

Martin at 308 is a concern IMHO.
He is tall but has short arms.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Warmack didn't test at the combine or pro day for strength so not sure what you are talking about.

Warmack dominated SEC DTs like very few players ever have.
Martin was very impressive but played outside at OT versus much, much smaller guys.
Playing the ND schedule and the Bama schedule aren't exactly equal in DL talent.

Where Martin truly shined was at the Senior Bowl.
There he did prove he could handle much bigger guys with ease.
But Warmack had 2 years of that on tape.

There was an unofficial result. I need to find it but I remember it being putrid.

I saw McCullers put him on skates. He didn't dominate Logan, the Georgia kid or other guys he faced. He beat up on LB like the guy from ND. Alabama consistently used combo blocks with the center to get push and Warmack was decidedly mediocre when isoed.

Please show me the tape of Warmack dominating DT one on one.