Bob McGinn's Scout's Comments on Zack Martin

[jterrell]

You're kind of going off the deep end with the insults, so I will bite.

What was the Rams record and why?

I will give you a little background first. Jeff Fisher is notorious for his defenses but in all his experience has never won a Super Bowl. Annnnnnnnnnnd go!

record was bad because offense was dreadful perhaps? 30th in total offense.

not sure how the most basic stat related to DL play is off the deep end but ok.... guess we can just say they arent good and ignore facts altogether.

The Fisher discussion has zero to do with me. I've never been a fan.

The Rams added the best OT and the best DT(and IIRC only DT in top 25 picks) in this draft already.
If they get any offense they will be good. If they are 30th again probably not.
Being a +8 in turnovers but 30th in offense is hard to pull off.

 

[texbumthelife]

record was bad because offense was dreadful perhaps? 30th in total offense.

not sure how the most basic stat related to DL play is off the deep end but ok.... guess we can just say they arent good and ignore facts altogether.

The Fisher discussion has zero to do with me. I've never been a fan.

The Rams added the best OT and the best DT(and IIRC only DT in top 25 picks) in this draft already.
If they get any offense they will be good. If they are 30th again probably not.
Being a +8 in turnovers but 30th in offense is hard to pull off.

The point is, you're sitting there gushing about how amazing the Ram's defensive line was, but they won even less games than we did.

The Jeff Fisher point was, the guy always overloads at defense and ignores his offense. It cost Tennessee a Superbowl and pretty much destroyed Vince Young's career.

In other words, using the Rams as a comparison is a little bit porous for me, they're essentially the Cowboys polar opposites.

 

[jterrell]

This is not sarcasm, it's genuine interest--do you have any links to stories about his weight room work. I would really like to read up on that. I've recently made big changes in my life and knowing anything/everything I can about fitness and muscle building. I don't plan to be a power lifter or anything, but it's become a big time hobby of mine.

I looked but every google search pulls 400k results so tough to find.
Ironically did find where he sat some record at a local restaurant for eating two massive 3 pound burgers. lol.

I have been back working out heavily and can tell you it becomes addicting and is a positive thing for mind and body.
I am really sore right now because today was leg day.

 

[jterrell]

The point is, you're sitting there gushing about how amazing the Ram's defensive line was, but they won even less games than we did.

The Jeff Fisher point was, the guy always overloads at defense and ignores his offense. It cost Tennessee a Superbowl and pretty much destroyed Vince Young's career.

In other words, using the Rams as a comparison is a little bit porous for me, they're essentially the Cowboys polar opposites.

I am gushing about the rams DL because it is insanely good. Thats now 4 DL I'd have loved for Dallas to land.
How many games they win doesn't change that.
I've never claimed the trenches is all that matters or that a great DL carries you to the Super Bowl... though it darn sure helps.

Their DL is clearly a top 5 group. Nothing else to see here.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I looked but every google search pulls 400k results so tough to find.
Ironically did find where he sat some record at a local restaurant for eating two massive 3 pound burgers. lol.

I have been back working out heavily and can tell you it becomes addicting and is a positive thing for mind and body.
I am really sore right now because today was leg day.

If he was a noted workout warrior then you would think "chance warmack weight room alabama" would have something about it in the first 5 pages. There isn't. I am going to guess that we can put this with all those DT pancakes you claim too.

 

[jterrell]

If he was a noted workout warrior then you would think "chance warmack weight room alabama" would have something about it in the first 5 pages. There isn't. I am going to guess that we can put this with all those DT pancakes you claim too.

From 2010 "Warmack says he can squat 650 pounds and bench-press 405"
His teammate said at 300 pounds he had visible abs.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/08/tides_warmack_a_product_of_a_h.html

That was one off page one... I didnt really desire to spend hours searching for something I already knew to be true.

If you are done arguing the sky is blue we'll consider this settled.
Otherwise feel free to find anything that says Warmack isn't strong and I'll gladly find 10 articles disagreeing.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As for Warmacks BP i think I was going by what were conflicting reports. I did find this who has him maxing out at 315 which is putrid. Their squat value for him is garbage as well at 415.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Chance-Warmack-79726/print

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From 2010 "Warmack says he can squat 650 pounds and bench-press 405"
His teammate said at 300 pounds he had visible abs.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/08/tides_warmack_a_product_of_a_h.html

That was one off page one... I didnt really desire to spend hours searching for something I already knew to be true.

If you are done arguing the sky is blue we'll consider this settled.
Otherwise feel free to find anything that says Warmack isn't strong and I'll gladly find 10 articles disagreeing.

You cannot make very many empirical arguments so you resort to ad hominem after ad hominem. Plus the ad hominem is properly stated "arguing the sky isn't blue." You are really petty, I will give you that.

And sorry but 405 bench is decent but it is hardly equivalent to the hyperbole you keep telling.

 

[jterrell]

As for Warmacks BP i think I was going by what were conflicting reports. I did find this who has him maxing out at 315 which is putrid. Their squat value for him is garbage as well at 415.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Chance-Warmack-79726/print

that was from high school.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And I hope it is not lost on people that he is granting that Warmack was not powerful in his play last year, nor is he is able to present Warmack winning isolations by driving or drive and turn downfield.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that was from high school.

Great but 405 isn't even remotely elite either.

 

[jterrell]

You cannot make very many empirical arguments so you resort to ad hominem after ad hominem. Plus the ad hominem is properly stated "arguing the sky isn't blue." You are really petty, I will give you that.

And sorry but 405 bench is decent but it is hardly equivalent to the hyperbole you keep telling.

good grief, do you even know what ad hominem means?
you haven't made a single salient point in this discussion.
none, zero, nada.
That's not a personal attack simply a fact about the argument.
I am clearly attacking your argument; which is heinously devoid of any factual data or logic.
If another person made the same argument it would suck similarly, it is not unique to your person but to this argument.
You are the one taking my calling your argument "simpleton excuses" and making that a personal declaration.
That's not ad hominem but transference.

to recap:
Warmack is very strong, he was a generational type prospect at his position, he in fact had 37 then 39 pancake blocks to lead Alabama both seasons.
He was a top 10 pick at OG. Only the 3rd in the past 15 years.
405 bench with 650 squat is very strong but not otherwordly, weighing 300 with abs as his teammate mentioned is legendary.
I never stated Warmack set weight room records, merely that he was legendary for his work there.
Have no idea if he had off the charts lifts or not just that Saban and others raved about what he did in the weight room.
We do not have a current list of his best lifts. He basically rested on his game tape, the game tape you find lacking yet brought him a top 10 selection.

 

[SportsGuru80]

GREAT selection!

 

[jterrell]

And I hope it is not lost on people that he is granting that Warmack was not powerful in his play last year, nor is he is able to present Warmack winning isolations by driving or drive and turn downfield.

whats not lost on anyone is you keep making things up and pretend saying them makes them true.
the only data you've provided at all was a high school scouting report from 2008.
here's a season recap talking about how he played with power and loves contact but needs better technique.

http://www.titansonline.com/news/ar...-in-2013/16d9fa0a-a2b8-4939-8b0c-473039be0ab6

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

good grief, do you even know what ad hominem means?
you haven't made a single salient point in this discussion.
none, zero, nada.
That's not a personal attack simply a fact about the argument.
I am clearly attacking your argument; which is heinously devoid of any factual data or logic.
If another person made the same argument it would suck similarly, it is not unique to your person but to this argument.
You are the one taking my calling your argument "simpleton excuses" and making that a personal declaration.
That's not ad hominem but transference.

to recap:
Warmack is very strong, he was a generational type prospect at his position, he in fact had 37 then 39 pancake blocks to lead Alabama both seasons.
He was a top 10 pick at OG. Only the 3rd in the past 15 years.
405 bench with 650 squat is very strong but not otherwordly, weighing 300 with abs as his teammate mentioned is legendary.
I never stated Warmack set weight room records, merely that he was legendary for his work there.
Have no idea if he had off the charts lifts or not just that Saban and others raved about what he did in the weight room.
We do not have a current list of his best lifts. He basically rested on his game tape, the game tape you find lacking yet brought him a top 10 selection.

You certainly characterize my argument but you don't address them. Characterizing my argument as "simpleton" is ad hominem. Conflating my arguments with "arguing the sky is blue" is ad hominem.

You still have yet to address his play last season for the Titans which he struggled holding blocks and handling bull rushes. You plain ignore that.

You claim he was legendary in the weight room and all you can come up with is a claim of a 405 lbs bench which is putrid for an interior linemen of 330 lbs. I am not asking for Larry Allen 700 lbs here but he is only incrementally above what Quincy Carter was able to put up back in the day, 350. Nor is a 650 lbs squat impressive for that matter. You lift but you don't seem to have a grasp of what weights an OG that size should be putting up.

You still have yet to come up with a single example of him isoed on a DT and driving him. Instead you keep making claims about what Saban supposedly said but have not yet brought up a single quote even if it was meaningful. That is an appeal to authority and a garbage unsubstantiated one at that.

As I stated before there are plenty of examples of him pancaking LB. He destroyed Te'o and the tape you showed had several examples of him kicking out and planting a LB. What you don't see him do is get low and drive a guy out of the hole by himself. You see Barret Jones helping him with DT.

And how on earth can you claim I do not address your arguments. The above is a direct refutation of you parroting his pancake totals over and again. You have yet to address it but with that Jets link. I addressed that by asking you where it shows him beating DT by himself with power technique. You ignore that.

You have a whole lot of assertions without substance and petty insults. You lack any real veracity in your arguments. YOu just pretend like it is universally agreed that he is the wonderful power guard but that is not the case. I can prove that by linking this thread at the Titans board:

http://www.gotitans.com/threads/chance-warmack-was-really-bad-in-2013.91534/

You were wrong in your evaluation. Deal with it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

whats not lost on anyone is you keep making things up and pretend saying them makes them true.
the only data you've provided at all was a high school scouting report from 2008.
here's a season recap talking about how he played with power and loves contact but needs better technique.

http://www.titansonline.com/news/ar...-in-2013/16d9fa0a-a2b8-4939-8b0c-473039be0ab6

Please quote the portion that makes that claim. I really have to question your reading comprehension.

That data you provided had him at 405 which is not good. I don't need more than that when you provide the evidence I need. You are not very good at argument at all.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just saw the fluff piece. They didn't show the power either. You going to acknowledge the pff article which quantifies how he struggled with bull rushes and speaks of his inability to hold blocks? The Titans fans certainly didn't feel that way despite the fluff.

You go long on assertions and barely show anything at all.

 

[jnday]

You certainly characterize my argument but you don't address them. Characterizing my argument as "simpleton" is ad hominem. Conflating my arguments with "arguing the sky is blue" is ad hominem.

You still have yet to address his play last season for the Titans which he struggled holding blocks and handling bull rushes. You plain ignore that.

You claim he was legendary in the weight room and all you can come up with is a claim of a 405 lbs bench which is putrid for an interior linemen of 330 lbs. I am not asking for Larry Allen 700 lbs here but he is only incrementally above what Quincy Carter was able to put up back in the day, 350. Nor is a 650 lbs squat impressive for that matter. You lift but you don't seem to have a grasp of what weights an OG that size should be putting up.

You still have yet to come up with a single example of him isoed on a DT and driving him. Instead you keep making claims about what Saban supposedly said but have not yet brought up a single quote even if it was meaningful. That is an appeal to authority and a garbage unsubstantiated one at that.

As I stated before there are plenty of examples of him pancaking LB. He destroyed Te'o and the tape you showed had several examples of him kicking out and planting a LB. What you don't see him do is get low and drive a guy out of the hole by himself. You see Barret Jones helping him with DT.

And how on earth can you claim I do not address your arguments. The above is a direct refutation of you parroting his pancake totals over and again. You have yet to address it but with that Jets link. I addressed that by asking you where it shows him beating DT by himself with power technique. You ignore that.

You have a whole lot of assertions without substance and petty insults. You lack any real veracity in your arguments. YOu just pretend like it is universally agreed that he is the wonderful power guard but that is not the case. I can prove that by linking this thread at the Titans board:

http://www.gotitans.com/threads/chance-warmack-was-really-bad-in-2013.91534/

You were wrong in your evaluation. Deal with it.

Using PFF grades from a fan board is hardly information that I would base an argument on. Also, a very powerful OLman can be bull rushed if his technique is poor when pass blocking, which came up in an earlier post. That doesn't prove anything about his power, only his technique problems needs work. You had problems with Warmack last year. Did he steal your lunch money and give you wedgies at some point in your life?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Using PFF grades from a fan board is hardly information that I would base an argument on. Also, a very powerful OLman can be bull rushed if his technique is poor when pass blocking, which came up in an earlier post. That doesn't prove anything about his power, only his technique problems needs work. You had problems with Warmack last year. Did he steal your lunch money and give you wedgies at some point in your life?

No, I just have sound arguments that you and others have yet to counter. You come up with any examples of him dominating 1v1's with DT or you still going to handwave at him beating up on guys 80 lbs lighter than him? If you would like I can come up with examples of Yankee, Cooper, DeCastro, and Warford. They did it a lot. You guys in over a year still cannot show Warmack doing it. It is very telling really.

And I never cited the grades. I don't find their grading system worth a flip. I cited their pressure stats and their analysis which is straight from pff and not that fan board. I have faith in their ability to see when a guy gets bullrushed I don't like how the grading system at all.

I just linked that to demonstrate that there are plenty of people that now feel exactly as I did then who are Titans fans. jterrell kept trying to act like I was all alone on this.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For example the second play has Warford doing it:

http://www.detroitlions.com/media-c...ghlights/42bfe709-ad7d-4f69-a96d-081f0e628aae

That was tough.