Bob Sturm takes on Cowboys drafted record 09-present

[Alexander]

Taking OL in the first round three of those years also skewed the "success".

It is a much easier draft pick to make. OL have a lower bust rate.

I just think we have been drafting smarter in the first, taking more sure things or "safe" players.

The deeper we go, the less sound our choices become.

By the later rounds, we are throwing dice, often at unproductive players thinking their traits will be enough.

 

[HanfordDixon]

Yes, let's be wary of facts and quantitatively verifiable data in favor of feel-good emotional BS.

I am giving you facts, bud. Dallas is wholly focused on signing all of its own players because it drafts well. Giants spent like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Dolphins spend like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Eagles, Commanders, Browns, all in the same boat. Here's another fact: Dallas does as well with undrafted free agents as any team in the NFL. Romo, Church, Beasley, Leary, Whitehead, the list goes on and on. I dont' care if they're drafted or not, I care that the people running this team find a steady flow of young talent. And they do. End. Of. Story.

 

[CyberB0b]

Just because it's convenient doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

Lawrence was hurt most of his rookie year, then had two sacks in the playoffs and led the team with eight sacks last year. Now, he's suspended for four games. Are you ready to call his career a bust?

Gregory didn't accomplish much of nothing last year after being injured in his first game. Now, he's suspended for four games. Are you ready to call his career a bust?

This is why I based the data on second contracts. I think by then you can tell if the team feels it was successful in drafting a player that early or not.

Well, we have had Lawrence for half of his rookie contract, and he doesn't have a lot to show for it, especially considering we traded up to get him. His production hasn't been near what we paid for him. That is easy to evaluate.

 

[gimmesix]

Well, we have had Lawrence for half of his rookie contract, and he doesn't have a lot to show for it, especially considering we traded up to get him. His production hasn't been near what we paid for him. That is easy to evaluate.

He had eight sacks last year and was one of our top defenders after missing most of his rookie year, then having two sacks in the playoffs.

I think if I'm going to evaluate him off that, I'm going to say he was a good pick.

Let me do a comparison for you:

Player A was taken in the second round and did not start a game as a rookie while playing in all 16. He finished that year with 0 sacks and 23 tackles. The next year, he had 7 sacks and 37 tackles, starting 15 games.

Player B taken in the second round had 0 sacks and 6 tackles in seven games his rookie year. In his second season, he had 8 sacks and 35 tackles, starting 13 games.

Since it's easy to evaluate Lawrence based on his first two seasons, what is your evaluation of those players?

 

[wileedog]

I am giving you facts, bud. Dallas is wholly focused on signing all of its own players because it drafts well. Giants spent like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Dolphins spend like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Eagles, Commanders, Browns, all in the same boat. Here's another fact: Dallas does as well with undrafted free agents as any team in the NFL. Romo, Church, Beasley, Leary, Whitehead, the list goes on and on. I dont' care if they're drafted or not, I care that the people running this team find a steady flow of young talent. And they do. End. Of. Story.

Wow. Raking in all that young talent and somehow we are a .500 time still.

Funny game football.

 

[zrinkill]

Taking OL in the first round three of those years also skewed the "success".

It is a much easier draft pick to make. OL have a lower bust rate.

I just think we have been drafting smarter in the first, taking more sure things or "safe" players.

The deeper we go, the less sound our choices become.

By the later rounds, we are throwing dice, often at unproductive players thinking their traits will be enough.

I have to agree with this.

 

[yimyammer]

Don't forget Jay Ratliff. Also keep in mind, we're talking about four drafts here that already destroy the entire decade that followed. That's bad.

A think a competent that is being overlooked is player development.

Parcells had a way of getting players to improve. I think he and Jimmy used psychology in an effective way to hit the sweet spot in a player that made him want to play a little harder and do the work to make themselves better. Another aspect of Parcells is I think players had a healthy fear of their jobs when he was around. I'm not sure that exists much under the current crew. Hardy is a case in point, there was no reason to keep him after game 12 (assuming the rumors we've heard are true), yet he remained on the roster, chewing up cap space and undermining his coach in the process.

The problems here run deeper than the draft

 

[yimyammer]

stop giving away picks ! Or trying to.

Then Lynch better suck because if he turns out to be a player, that will stick in jerris mind until his deathbed and you'll have to punt any hope of this ever happening. Probably wont stop him any way because the man loves high risk and gambling with picks, its in his nature.

 

[yimyammer]

A think a competent component that is being overlooked is player development.

Parcells had a way of getting players to improve. I think he and Jimmy used psychology in an effective way to hit the sweet spot in a player that made him want to play a little harder and do the work to make themselves better. Another aspect of Parcells is I think players had a healthy fear of their jobs when he was around. I'm not sure that exists much under the current crew. Hardy is a case in point, there was no reason to keep him after game 12 (assuming the rumors we've heard are true), yet he remained on the roster, chewing up cap space and undermining his coach in the process.

The problems here run deeper than the draft

fixed my post

friggin autocorrect

 

[Common Sense]

I am giving you facts, bud. Dallas is wholly focused on signing all of its own players because it drafts well. Giants spent like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Dolphins spend like crazy because they haven't drafted well. Eagles, Commanders, Browns, all in the same boat. Here's another fact: Dallas does as well with undrafted free agents as any team in the NFL. Romo, Church, Beasley, Leary, Whitehead, the list goes on and on. I dont' care if they're drafted or not, I care that the people running this team find a steady flow of young talent. And they do. End. Of. Story.

Those are opinions, not facts.

 

[jterrell]

How is that odd? He explained in detail why 2009 was the year to start. He's examining the team's drafting abilities post Parcells / Ireland and starting with the first year of a pure Phillips / Garrett / Ciskowskie draft.

Besides, does Nick Folk really strengthen your argument?

Odd because the draft is now Garrett/McClay/Stephen.
And Yes Folk strengthens my argument because he is an empty number that counts as a starter.
Numbers can and do lie. Not all starters are created equal.
4 average starters versus 2 Pro Bowlers is probably equal if not favoring the Pro Bowlers.

The data was incomplete and rather pointless.
And this from a guy that loves Sturm.
But there are a 100 better draft analysis out there covering more data that show Dallas has drafted well above the curve.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Much truth, but on the flip side.....

Dallas has built the best offensive line in football, with a solid receiving corps, and now a potential superstar running back. Don't forget perhaps the best kicker in football.

Defensively, if Cheech and Chong put down the bong, and Jaylon Smith heals, there is much to be optimistic about moving forward.

No there isnt. Our franchise QB is on his last legs and we have nobody of consequence in the works. The biggest issue of all is about to explode in our faces. And this is the hardest position to fill on the field and he must be developed over 3 or 4 years before he is typically ready to take you to a SB. Then there is almost the entire side of the defense that needs an overhaul. 3/4ths of our secondary needs new studs. Lee and Jaylon are the only remotely good linebackers and they are both big question marks. Do we have one stud on the DL? Nope, not one. And then our coaching is still bad. And then there is Jerry Jones screwing everything up.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Much truth, but on the flip side.....

Dallas has built the best offensive line in football, with a solid receiving corps, and now a potential superstar running back. Don't forget perhaps the best kicker in football.

Defensively, if Cheech and Chong put down the bong, and Jaylon Smith heals, there is much to be optimistic about moving forward.

Oh and I forgot another big one.................We are constantly up against the Cap every year and we can never sign big time FA's. So the ONLY way that we can make our team better is by the draft. And Jones is mediocre to bad at it. Sorry, the future is as bleak as ever. The ONLY thing that is looking up is the next year or two for guys like you that think making the playoffs is the talk of the town.

 

[erod]

Oh and I forgot another big one.................We are constantly up against the Cap every year and we can never sign big time FA's. So the ONLY way that we can make our team better is by the draft. And Jones is mediocre to bad at it. Sorry, the future is as bleak as ever. The ONLY thing that is looking up is the next year or two for guys like you that think making the playoffs is the talk of the town.

The cap is a myth. Teams can do whatever they want to do with a little cap manipulation.

And big free agent signings almost never work out.

 

[erod]

No there isnt. Our franchise QB is on his last legs and we have nobody of consequence in the works. The biggest issue of all is about to explode in our faces. And this is the hardest position to fill on the field and he must be developed over 3 or 4 years before he is typically ready to take you to a SB. Then there is almost the entire side of the defense that needs an overhaul. 3/4ths of our secondary needs new studs. Lee and Jaylon are the only remotely good linebackers and they are both big question marks. Do we have one stud on the DL? Nope, not one. And then our coaching is still bad. And then there is Jerry Jones screwing everything up.

There are 10 good quarterbacks on planet earth.

All 32 teams will turn 3/4 of their rosters over in five years. That's today's NFL.

 

[erod]

First off, Doug Free is from 2007, Leary and Beasley were undrafted, Collins and Gregory are a 1st picks that fell to the second for other reasons, so they don't count in this discussion since they don't meet said criteria of this discussion.

Of those left, how many are quality starters? Scandrick, Lee (though always injured) Murray, Bailey, and maybe Crawford though there are questions there too. I see four real quality starters in that group that were drafted 2-7 since 2009. Six picks times eight years is around 48 picks (plus minus depending on how the draft fell) Getting four quality starters out of 48 picks is AWFUL.

OK, show me the team that is just ladling it's roster with dozens of pro bowl starters after the first round. I'll wait.

I just threw names at a wall in 60 seconds. I could think about it and come up with a lot more.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The cap is a myth. Teams can do whatever they want to do with a little cap manipulation.

And big free agent signings almost never work out.

Im done arguing or even responding to your ridiculous thoughts on football. This is just another one of your head scratching statements that makes no sense what so ever. But really why should I care? Makes no difference to me.

 

[RS12]

We can justify things to ourselves if we try, but the truth is that this current front office is not hitting the target often enough.

We who? Constant swinging for the fences equals many strike outs.

 

[erod]

Im done arguing or even responding to your ridiculous thoughts on football. This is just another one of your head scratching statements that makes no sense what so ever. But really why should I care? Makes no difference to me.

What, about the cap? Salaries can be moved around and renegotiated ad nauseum. The Commanders have been in "cap hell" for a decade, and yet they still sign high-priced free agents by the truck loads. And it never works out.

 

[YosemiteSam]

OK, show me the team that is just ladling it's roster with dozens of pro bowl starters after the first round. I'll wait.

I just threw names at a wall in 60 seconds. I could think about it and come up with a lot more.

I'm not lame enough to fall for asinine hyperbole. You've got to do better than that with me.