Both Kowalski and Arkin looking good?

I thought the additions to the secondary last year were very important, considering how the league is so pass-heavy but we're all entitled to our opinions. Would the resources have been better spent on the O-Line, quite possibly. But hopefully where there's smoke, there's fire with a few of these guys so we can put this debate to bed.
 
RoyTheHammer said:
Im saying in only one year here, im seeing more improvement and development among our later round draft picks and UDFA's than in Houck's last 4 years here.. and that a top 10 draft pick who is basically a sure thing, elite talent with freak althetic ability playing well isn't much proof to most people that an OL coach is doing a great job. That's all. Not trying to turn this into a drawn out back and forth, so agree to disagree i guess.

Mainly i just objected to the people throwing the one poster under the bus because he didn't think Houck was doing a super great job in his final years here. Yes, he had been a great OL coach, but i think age caught up to him in his final stint with us.
Click to expand...


actually the kid did not even seem to know about Houck's record more than thinking he was not a good coach. As regards Houck, clearly he was not what he was; but still seemed to do a fine job with Tyron- who also - obviously you seemed to forget- had to adjust to playing at a weight of more than 30 pounds above what he was used to. Maybe you think that is easy but if so talk to a O lineman or D lineman sometime about that- 'child'.
 
burmafrd said:
actually the kid did not even seem to know about Houck's record more than thinking he was not a good coach. As regards Houck, clearly he was not what he was; but still seemed to do a fine job with Tyron- who also - obviously you seemed to forget- had to adjust to playing at a weight of more than 30 pounds above what he was used to. Maybe you think that is easy but if so talk to a O lineman or D lineman sometime about that- 'child'.
Click to expand...

Yea show me where I said I didn't know who Houck was? Where do some of you people get this stuff. I said we have a proven guy in Callahan never did I say Houck never did anything I think his record speaks for itself. Why you coming up with these crazy thoughts to try and make you look right? Houck WAS a great OL coach but it was time to move on from him, age was a big factor in that. You call me "kid" but your the one who needs to grow up
 
burmafrd said:
I was being nice to the kid and did not mention Houck's resume
Click to expand...

Let's hear about Houck's resume. A great OL coach should be judged on his ability to build a great OL. Jackie Slater and Larry Allen would have been great players with no coaching.

His resume does not include building the great Cowboys' OLines of the early nineties. That was done by Tony Wise. Houck didn't come to the Cowboys until Jimmy's final year in Dallas.

The Cowboys had 2 top OLinemen that came in as rookies while Houck was here. Larry Allen and Flozell. Both players were said to rely on their overwhelming talent over technique. LA just lined up and overpowered all defenders. There was really no technique involved. Flozell was never able to quit jumping off-sides.

Houck did get the freakishly talented Tyron Smith ready to play early; however, I was at training camp Tyron's rookie year and Houck basically ignored all other OLinemen and spent all of his time coaching Tyron.

Jimmy and Tony Wise built one of the greatest OLines in NFL history by adding 2 talented draft picks (Stepnoski and Erik Williams) to the following list of previously mediocre players:
63 John Gesek G
66 Kevin Gogan G
61 Nate Newton G
71 Mark Tuinei T
68 Frank Cornish C

Houck had a hard time keeping a decent OLine together despite having 2 of the most physically talented players at their positions in the NFL (LA and Flozell, I won't count the post car wreck version of Erik Williams).
 
burmafrd said:
actually the kid did not even seem to know about Houck's record more than thinking he was not a good coach. As regards Houck, clearly he was not what he was; but still seemed to do a fine job with Tyron- who also - obviously you seemed to forget- had to adjust to playing at a weight of more than 30 pounds above what he was used to. Maybe you think that is easy but if so talk to a O lineman or D lineman sometime about that- 'child'.
Click to expand...

Actually, i'd wager the "kid" knows alot more about most things Cowboys than you do.. and will eventually learn to just ignore most everything you have to say like the rest of us normally do. Houck has been a good OL coach in the past, but he did nothing with our lines in his final stint here. He took an elite talent, a top 10 pick with freakish athletic ability, and got him to play well at RT during his rookie year. Hooray! lol

Honestly, i'd like to hear you describe for us all what "Houck's record" even means to you, "big guy".
 
xwalker said:
Let's hear about Houck's resume. A great OL coach should be judged on his ability to build a great OL. Jackie Slater and Larry Allen would have been great players with no coaching.

His resume does not include building the great Cowboys' OLines of the early nineties. That was done by Tony Wise. Houck didn't come to the Cowboys until Jimmy's final year in Dallas.

The Cowboys had 2 top OLinemen that came in as rookies while Houck was here. Larry Allen and Flozell. Both players were said to rely on their overwhelming talent over technique. LA just lined up and overpowered all defenders. There was really no technique involved. Flozell was never able to quit jumping off-sides.

Houck did get the freakishly talented Tyron Smith ready to play early; however, I was at training camp Tyron's rookie year and Houck basically ignored all other OLinemen and spent all of his time coaching Tyron.

Jimmy and Tony Wise built one of the greatest OLines in NFL history by adding 2 talented draft picks (Stepnoski and Erik Williams) to the following list of previously mediocre players:
63 John Gesek G
66 Kevin Gogan G
61 Nate Newton G
71 Mark Tuinei T
68 Frank Cornish C

Houck had a hard time keeping a decent OLine together despite having 2 of the most physically talented players at their positions in the NFL (LA and Flozell, I won't count the post car wreck version of Erik Williams).
Click to expand...

Great point about Houck.
 
Irvin88_4life said:
Yea show me where I said I didn't know who Houck was? Where do some of you people get this stuff. I said we have a proven guy in Callahan never did I say Houck never did anything I think his record speaks for itself. Why you coming up with these crazy thoughts to try and make you look right? Houck WAS a great OL coach but it was time to move on from him, age was a big factor in that. You call me "kid" but your the one who needs to grow up
Click to expand...

Yea, im sure you've noticed by now, but burm is one of the board's resident Debbie Downers. Almost seems like he enjoys being miserable sometimes, but i wouldn't put any weight into what he says. Just consider the source and move on. I think Callahan is going to do a very good job here, and i think with some of the reports we've been seeing about some of the lower round/UDFA's that have previously not done much of anything here (KK, Costa, Arkin, Leary, etc) at least one or two of those guys will be able to start for us either this year or next. Kowalski especially i think deserves a chance to start at OG. He seems to do well with every oppertunity he's been given so far. Certainly, Callahan seems to be off to a better start after only 1 year than Houck got if some of these players keep developing like we've been hearing.
 
Burms better hope his horse Cook starts practicing... Between the failed conditioning test at the start of training camp and now him sitting out because of something else... He's not cementing himself a place on the final roster.
 
RoyTheHammer said:
Yea, im sure you've noticed by now, but burm is one of the board's resident Debbie Downers. Almost seems like he enjoys being miserable sometimes, but i wouldn't put any weight into what he says. Just consider the source and move on. I think Callahan is going to do a very good job here, and i think with some of the reports we've been seeing about some of the lower round/UDFA's that have previously not done much of anything here (KK, Costa, Arkin, Leary, etc) at least one or two of those guys will be able to start for us either this year or next. Kowalski especially i think deserves a chance to start at OG. He seems to do well with every oppertunity he's been given so far. Certainly, Callahan seems to be off to a better start after only 1 year than Houck got if some of these players keep developing like we've been hearing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and I like your insight on the new guys. I too have noticed the young guys playing well Arkin especially seems to be stronger then in the past and playing with better technique. I think the future looks bright and maybe the OG situation might be looking up with Kowalski, Leary, Arkin and Costa all playing OG. I also like that they are putting this players in different spots like Center and so forth. Free looks to be playing better as well, Parnell will be back soon as well Bernadeau. I think Dallas will take a OG pretty high in next years draft if the right one falls but wouldn't mind DL in the first round.

Look forward to more insight from a fellow Cowboys fan like yourself
 
MichaelWinicki said:
Burms better hope his horse Cook starts practicing... Between the failed conditioning test at the start of training camp and now him sitting out because of something else... He's not cementing himself a place on the final roster.
Click to expand...

Yea I don't think Cook makes the team to be honest. The longer these vets are out and the more practice these young guys get will only benefit the team. That being said I hope Cook comes back soon and plays really well as I do for all the players
 
Irvin88_4life said:
Thanks for the info and I like your insight on the new guys. I too have noticed the young guys playing well Arkin especially seems to be stronger then in the past and playing with better technique. I think the future looks bright and maybe the OG situation might be looking up with Kowalski, Leary, Arkin and Costa all playing OG. I also like that they are putting this players in different spots like Center and so forth. Free looks to be playing better as well, Parnell will be back soon as well Bernadeau. I think Dallas will take a OG pretty high in next years draft if the right one falls but wouldn't mind DL in the first round.

Look forward to more insight from a fellow Cowboys fan like yourself
Click to expand...

OL or DL.. doesn't matter to me. We need to get alot better on both fronts. I agree, that should be our focus, and i know alot of other Cowboys fans feel the same. Glad the organization seems to be starting to realize that, as well.
 
xwalker said:
Let's hear about Houck's resume. A great OL coach should be judged on his ability to build a great OL. Jackie Slater and Larry Allen would have been great players with no coaching.

His resume does not include building the great Cowboys' OLines of the early nineties. That was done by Tony Wise. Houck didn't come to the Cowboys until Jimmy's final year in Dallas.

The Cowboys had 2 top OLinemen that came in as rookies while Houck was here. Larry Allen and Flozell. Both players were said to rely on their overwhelming talent over technique. LA just lined up and overpowered all defenders. There was really no technique involved. Flozell was never able to quit jumping off-sides.

Houck did get the freakishly talented Tyron Smith ready to play early; however, I was at training camp Tyron's rookie year and Houck basically ignored all other OLinemen and spent all of his time coaching Tyron.

Jimmy and Tony Wise built one of the greatest OLines in NFL history by adding 2 talented draft picks (Stepnoski and Erik Williams) to the following list of previously mediocre players:
63 John Gesek G
66 Kevin Gogan G
61 Nate Newton G
71 Mark Tuinei T
68 Frank Cornish C

Houck had a hard time keeping a decent OLine together despite having 2 of the most physically talented players at their positions in the NFL (LA and Flozell, I won't count the post car wreck version of Erik Williams).
Click to expand...

That is a great point. All I was stating earlier was when Houck was replaced with Callahan that Callahan is proven in developing OL. Debby downer here started making things up that I didn't say .

I don't know everything but its nice to chat with fellow Cowboys fans because I learn new stuff everyday and enjoy talking about our team in a positive manner. I know there is negatives but new season brings new challenges and with that a new team as well.
 
RoyTheHammer said:
OL or DL.. doesn't matter to me. We need to get alot better on both fronts. I agree, that should be our focus, and i know alot of other Cowboys fans feel the same. Glad the organization seems to be starting to realize that, as well.
Click to expand...

Yes I love the fact that Dallas has drafted 2 OL in the first round in the past 3 years. Building in the trenches is where games are won and I heard Jerry say after the draft that 1 more year of drafting OL OG/OT will complete the OL rebuild. Hopefully we draft some young studs on DL next year to add to the talent we already have. Spencer looks to be gone and Ratliff and Hatcher are getting up there in age. Garrett and Jerry are building a team for the first time in a long time and that makes me happy to see greatest being built
 
MichaelWinicki said:
Burms better hope his horse Cook starts practicing... Between the failed conditioning test at the start of training camp and now him sitting out because of something else... He's not cementing himself a place on the final roster.
Click to expand...

Burm still has visions of sugar plums and QB Brady Quinn as an All-Pro.
 
speedkilz88 said:
Watched In The Trenches. Arkin looked pretty good but Kowalski struggled a bit-mixed good and bad.


Training Camp LIVE - In The Trenches (9 minutes)

Multimedia Center @ dc.com
http://www.dallascowboys.com/multim...Trenches/70530ac6-b5d2-46ed-afc4-34a8189ea490

Pop Out Player
http://www.dallascowboys.com/cda-we...-b5d2-46ed-afc4-34a8189ea490&previewMode=true
Click to expand...

Kowalski gave up some ground but always appeared to stay between the defender and the QB.

IMO, the plays that really killed the team last season were the ones where Bernadeau or Livings just whiffed at the line and the pass rusher got a free run at the QB.

I noticed the 270 lb Selvie getting a really good bull-rush on the 325 lb Doug Free.

Frederick appears really strong.
 
RoyTheHammer said:
Im saying in only one year here, im seeing more improvement and development among our later round draft picks and UDFA's than in Houck's last 4 years here.. and that a top 10 draft pick who is basically a sure thing, elite talent with freak althetic ability playing well isn't much proof to most people that an OL coach is doing a great job. That's all. Not trying to turn this into a drawn out back and forth, so agree to disagree i guess.

Mainly i just objected to the people throwing the one poster under the bus because he didn't think Houck was doing a super great job in his final years here. Yes, he had been a great OL coach, but i think age caught up to him in his final stint with us.
Click to expand...

I don't. I don't think age had anything to do with it. I think that's a fan cop out when they can't admit the talent isn't good enough. Give Houck talent, he can coach it. Give him an empty vessel and there's no magic potion to create what isn't there.

I don't see any development in any of the young OL other than Tyron, who had a very good rookie year under Houck. I didn't see even the smallest improvement in our OL last year under Callahan. In fact, they regressed further.
 
I know everyone says what a great OL coach Houck is, but I was just never really impressed that much with him. Tony Wise, IMO was much better and did more with his guys.

Houck was in Dallas pretty much from when the decline started in Dallas in the 90's and then again in the 2000's.

I could be wrong about him, but his units never really impressed me that much.
 
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