Broaddus: Too many teams covet OL for one to fall to the Cowboys w/audio

[Sarge]

I still think there's at least a 50% chance that either Cooper or Warmack are there at 18.

I agree.

 

[Prossman]

One thing to consider is: ur a bottom 15 team with a losing record. Obviouisly there has to be a need for a skill position somewhere. Tickets have to be sold, the fan base needs to be energized, and you draft a guard. Not very energizing . Don't discount the "Sexy" factor when it comes to picks 1-15. Wr, qbs, cbs, dt, dends/oslbs, even Lt are sexy and perceived as instant impacts. Not that guards don't make a impact but ...... I hear experts talk about how "safe" it would be to take warmack or cooper, but when you suck everyone needs someone to hang their hat on that the future is getting brighter. Safe is scouts wanting to cover their collective butts, but when crunchtime comes many teams will go sexy.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I think there's a 50% chance that both Warmack and Cooper are there at 18. I think there's a 95% chance that at least one of them is.

I think draftnicks overrate 1st round guards. Let's take a look at history. 2011 was the only time in the last 5 years 2 interior o-linemen were drafted in the first round.
- Mike Pouncey was taken at #15 ahead of Nate Solder who went at #17. Solder is now the starting left tackle for the Patriots. Who would you rather have, a center or a starting left tackle?
- Danny Watkins was taken at #23 by the Eagles. He was a can't miss guard who was going to have super-elite mobility (sound like Cooper?) and such great feet he could even play tackle in the NFL. Turns out he's actually the weakest link on an offensive line of weak links, he's the Eagles' Phil Costa.

GMs have learned their lesson. Last year Decastro was supposedly the best guard in the history of mankind (before Warmack was the best guard in the history of mankind, of course) and he fell to 23. Draftnicks had him a top-10 pick before the draft.

I would not be at all surprised if both Warmack and Cooper made it to 18.

 

[erod]

When the light goes on and they're up, I don't see cruddy teams drafting offensive guards. Maybe I'm wrong.

Teams need to generate excitement, too,.and drafting a guard doesn't change a 5-11 team much or generate fan interest.

Jerry is fortunate that the Cowboys get interest no matter what, although he doesn't get that.

 

[mschmidt64]

How do we lose buy getting a better skill player again?

Winning starts in the trenches. We already have good skill players. Our lines our bad, and we play bad football.

Do the math.

 

[Idgit]

Winning starts in the trenches. We already have good skill players. Our lines our bad, and we play bad football.

Do the math.

Winning starts with passing the ball effectively. And with defending the pass effectively. And with not turning over the football.

Our DL isn't bad, and we don't play bad football overall, but those points are a bit far afield from the thread topic.

Our OL needs to improve. Either through some combination of players in the first three rounds of the draft, or via one or more of the available veteran free agents. Either way, we're not going to lose by drafting a good player at another position in the first round.

 

[mschmidt64]

Winning starts with passing the ball effectively. And with defending the pass effectively. And with not turning over the football.

All those things start with the trenches. And with having a good QB.

Our DL isn't bad, and we don't play bad football overall, but those points are a bit far afield from the thread topic.

Our DL is not one of the better DLs in the league. It's pretty average, and if Ware were taken off it, it would be kinda scary.

And we're 8-8, we're not a good football team.

Our OL needs to improve. Either through some combination of players in the first three rounds of the draft, or via one or more of the available veteran free agents. Either way, we're not going to lose by drafting a good player at another position in the first round.

Hey, I'm generally for BPA, so I hear you. But at some point there has to be a commitment to these lines or we aren't gonna win. Either through FA, or by getting some good players later in the draft, or something.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Winning starts with passing the ball effectively. And with defending the pass effectively. And with not turning over the football.

Our DL isn't bad, and we don't play bad football overall, but those points are a bit far afield from the thread topic.

Our OL needs to improve. Either through some combination of players in the first three rounds of the draft, or via one or more of the available veteran free agents. Either way, we're not going to lose by drafting a good player at another position in the first round.

We've been trying this "we'll have so many weapons no one can defend us!!!" strategy for years and each year it's been a failure. One year we actually had Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Laurent Robinson, DeMarco Murray, and Jason Witten all on the field at the same time and you know what we got for it? The #15 offense in the league, ranking between the Oakland Raiders and Buffalo Bills in total points scored. An incredibly average offense.

This isn't fantasy football.

 

[Idgit]

We've been trying this "we'll have so many weapons no one can defend us!!!" strategy for years and each year it's been a failure. One year we actually had Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Laurent Robinson, DeMarco Murray, and Jason Witten all on the field at the same time and you know what we got for it? The #15 offense in the league, ranking between the Oakland Raiders and Buffalo Bills in total points scored. An incredibly average offense.

This isn't fantasy football.

Tony Romo threw for 4200 yards and had a passer rating of 102.5 that season and we were in the top third of the league offensively. And total points scored are total team points.

But I don't agree with your assessment of what we've been trying to do for years, either. We've had some good offensive weapons in place, that's true. What we've been trying to do the last two seasons is fix the huge issues we had in the defensive secondary, number one. And, number two, though people don't want to credit it, trying to fix the problems we've had for a long time along the OL. That included overhauling the OT positions with a top 10 pick and a big FA extension for Free, a surprise change at C, and replacing both starting OGs in FA last season. That rebuild blew a tire when Doug Free didn't pan out, but it's still going to be the top priority position group to fix this offseason. That may not specifically happen with the first round pick, depending who's available, but it's going to happen.

 

[TheCount]

We've been trying this "we'll have so many weapons no one can defend us!!!" strategy for years and each year it's been a failure. One year we actually had Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Laurent Robinson, DeMarco Murray, and Jason Witten all on the field at the same time and you know what we got for it? The #15 offense in the league, ranking between the Oakland Raiders and Buffalo Bills in total points scored. An incredibly average offense.

This isn't fantasy football.

I gotta agree with the idea that Romo needs more weapons no longer flies. I don't think there's a QB in this league that has been surrounded with more offensive skill player talent than Tony Romo throughout his career. The last thing we "need" is another mouth to feed on offense, we've got plenty of talent there.

At the very least, I'm curious to see what happens when the focus is on the trenches. We've tried it the other way for a long time, why not at least try something else. What's the worst that could happen?

 

[jnday]

One thing to consider is: ur a bottom 15 team with a losing record. Obviouisly there has to be a need for a skill position somewhere. Tickets have to be sold, the fan base needs to be energized, and you draft a guard. Not very energizing . Don't discount the "Sexy" factor when it comes to picks 1-15. Wr, qbs, cbs, dt, dends/oslbs, even Lt are sexy and perceived as instant impacts. Not that guards don't make a impact but ...... I hear experts talk about how "safe" it would be to take warmack or cooper, but when you suck everyone needs someone to hang their hat on that the future is getting brighter. Safe is scouts wanting to cover their collective butts, but when crunchtime comes many teams will go sexy.

Is that you Jerry?

 

[jnday]

Tony Romo threw for 4200 yards and had a passer rating of 102.5 that season and we were in the top third of the league offensively. And total points scored are total team points.

But I don't agree with your assessment of what we've been trying to do for years, either. We've had some good offensive weapons in place, that's true. What we've been trying to do the last two seasons is fix the huge issues we had in the defensive secondary, number one. And, number two, though people don't want to credit it, trying to fix the problems we've had for a long time along the OL. That included overhauling the OT positions with a top 10 pick and a big FA extension for Free, a surprise change at C, and replacing both starting OGs in FA last season. That rebuild blew a tire when Doug Free didn't pan out, but it's still going to be the top priority position group to fix this offseason. That may not specifically happen with the first round pick, depending who's available, but it's going to happen.

A solid rebuild consists of two jag free agents and a undrafted free agent on the oline. Wow! The media and many fans knew these moves were nothing but hole filling. They made one move to have a solid line and that was drafting Tyron. That's it.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Tony Romo threw for 4200 yards and had a passer rating of 102.5 that season and we were in the top third of the league offensively. And total points scored are total team points.

Top third of the league... they were #11 in terms of yards and there's 32 teams in the league. 32 divided by 3 teams the cut of for top third would be the 10.6th team. So, nope, not even a top third offense - as if barely scraping into the top third is some great accolade.

The Oakland Raiders were #9 in yards with Darius Heyward-Bay and Carson Palmer at the helm that year. How many weapons did they have? But, you know, we had "so many weapons no one could stop us"... until they did.

So maybe it is that we just didn't have ENOUGH skill position guys on the field. Maybe the league will let us substitute another skill position guy for an offensive lineman this year! Or perhaps the fact that in football you have to field an equal number of o-linemen and skill position players means that the fact we've been paying such an unequal amount of attention to the o-line is holding us back.

Nah, we just need that 6th eligible receiver, that's what going to make this offense go somewhere.

 

[Beast_from_East]

When the light goes on and they're up, I don't see cruddy teams drafting offensive guards. Maybe I'm wrong.

Teams need to generate excitement, too,.and drafting a guard doesn't change a 5-11 team much or generate fan interest.

Jerry is fortunate that the Cowboys get interest no matter what, although he doesn't get that.

Yea, Jerry is lucky that he owns a team with one of the largest fan bases in all of professional sports.

Not too many teams can go .500 every season and get the max primetime games. My brother is a Titans fan and they have only 1 primetime game all year.

That's my point.

 

[Idgit]

Top third of the league... they were #11 in terms of yards and there's 32 teams in the league. 32 divided by 3 teams the cut of for top third would be the 10.6th team. So, nope, not even a top third offense - as if barely scraping into the top third is some great accolade.

The Oakland Raiders were #9 in yards with Darius Heyward-Bay and Carson Palmer at the helm that year. How many weapons did they have? But, you know, we had "so many weapons no one could stop us"... until they did.

So maybe it is that we just didn't have ENOUGH skill position guys on the field. Maybe the league will let us substitute another skill position guy for an offensive lineman this year! Or perhaps the fact that in football you have to field an equal number of o-linemen and skill position players means that the fact we've been paying such an unequal amount of attention to the o-line is holding us back.

Nah, we just need that 6th eligible receiver, that's what going to make this offense go somewhere.

A, you're quibbling over the top third comment, but right that mathematically we're just outside it. The point's the same, it was an effective offensive passing attack.

And I don't know how many different ways I can say it. I'm not advocating taking a skill player. I'm saying adding another quality skill player does not make the team worse. At the same time, I'm clearly saying we need to continue to address the OL.

But it'd be straight-up stupid to do so, however, if that meant taking the 5th OT or the 3rd OG at 18 when the BPA at that spot happens to play another position. Even, God forbid, a skill position.

A solid rebuild consists of two jag free agents and a undrafted free agent on the oline. Wow! The media and many fans knew these moves were nothing but hole filling. They made one move to have a solid line and that was drafting Tyron. That's it.

...That rebuild blew a tire when Doug Free didn't pan out, but it's still going to be the top priority position group to fix this offseason.

That's not what I said.

 

[burmafrd]

there are no guards after the first two that will go in the first round so I would like you to name that 3rd guard you talk about.

And bolstering the O line with high picks is about the ONLY way this franchize has been able to do that in the last 20 years.

Outside of high priced FA's that is.

Bottom line is that every OL player we have taken after the second round since the last century has FAILED.

Think about that.

 

[Zordon]

Guys relax. I just read a report the other day that David Arkin is now up to 225 lbs on the bench press. Help is on the way.

 

[Idgit]

there are no guards after the first two that will go in the first round so I would like you to name that 3rd guard you talk about.

And bolstering the O line with high picks is about the ONLY way this franchize has been able to do that in the last 20 years.

Outside of high priced FA's that is.

Bottom line is that every OL player we have taken after the second round since the last century has FAILED.

Think about that.

I assume you're talking about my post, so I'll reply. I'm in favor of taking one of the top two OGs, and saying we should not reach for whoever that third OG might be. Or for whichever OT we might like best after Fluker.

And I'm in favor of taking OL in the second round, too. I'd consider an OG in the third if the right fit where there, but don't believe a third round OT is going to help us much. The same with the OGs below the third round unless we're planning on stashing them for a season.

All that said, you still don't pass up the BPA if he's a better fit for you than an OL. And it certainly doesn't make you worse to take the best player on your board. Especially when there are VFAs available at both OG and OT who represent clear upgrades over our starters.

As for bolstering the OL with high picks in the last 20 years, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Larry Allen, maybe? Though he was the 46th player taken overall and the 10th OL taken in that draft, which pretty much makes my point. Tyron Smith? Jury's still out on Tyron, though I agree he looks hopeful. Andre Gurode? Good player, but another second rounder. Just about every other good OL we've had during that time was a mid-to-lower round pick, or a VFA signing.

 

[Idgit]

Guys relax. I just read a report the other day that David Arkin is now up to 225 lbs on the bench press. Help is on the way.

Dude, you really nailed that one. Good stuff!

 

[Wood]

Same here, although, Warmack or Cooper might slide.

I will be stunned if Warmack makes it out of top 12.