But I Thought Dak Was Just a Dink And Dunk QB?

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
77,542
Reaction score
96,340
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Make no mistake about it it was the defense that lost that game. The Rams powerful veteran offensive line blew us off like we weren't there

That was an awful display of D. Which I am glad to see they loaded up on the DL to have a better and deeper rotation this year.
At least on paper for now it looks good. Need to see them for real.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,369
Reaction score
44,161
The tweet in the OP was extracted from a longer thread in which it was specified that the sample included attempts when the margin was 8 points or less in the 4th quarter or OT, commonly known as "late & close."

8 points is a at least a two score game to either tie (TD + 2 point conversion) or take the lead (TD + extra point and FG or TD).

That’s not “close.”
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,908
Reaction score
58,577
Dak dinks and dunks until he has no choice but to sling it.

Why is this so hard for so many to see with their own eyes?
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
77,542
Reaction score
96,340
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Dak dinks and dunks until he has no choice but to sling it.

Why is this so hard for so many to see with their own eyes?

I seen an OC call short comeback routes, not allowing Dak anything but dinks and dunks.
We seen what happened when Cooper and Dak, decided to go deep and it resulted in a long TD against the Eagles.
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,928
Reaction score
22,452
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The tweet in the OP was extracted from a longer thread in which it was specified that the sample included attempts when the margin was 8 points or less in the 4th quarter or OT, commonly known as "late & close."

Did the article specify that it only included attempts to come from behind when it is "late & close" or did it include any situation in which there was a margin of 8 points or less in the 4th quarter? Obviously a team with an 8 point lead would act differently than one with an 8 point deficit, especially as it gets late in the 4th quarter.
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,908
Reaction score
58,577
I seen an OC call short comeback routes, not allowing Dak anything but dinks and dunks.
We seen what happened when Cooper and Dak, decided to go deep and it resulted in a long TD against the Eagles.

You mean against that backup safety playing corner (Igwebuke, or something) and other backup safety (Countess) that they picked up that week? The corner basically ran out of bounds and the safety was a day late.

Against backups to actual backups, Dak managed 9 whole points in the first three quarters that day. :laugh:
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
77,542
Reaction score
96,340
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You mean against that backup safety playing corner (Igwebuke, or something) and other backup safety (Countess) that they picked up that week? The corner basically ran out of bounds and the safety was a day late.

Against backups to actual backups, Dak managed 9 whole points in the first three quarters that day. :laugh:

Doesn't matter, all teams have to play back ups if needed. If their coaching is so great, he should have been prepared.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
31,734
Reaction score
18,005
Make no mistake about it it was the defense that lost that game. The Rams powerful veteran offensive line blew us off like we weren't there
offense and defense were both bad....make no mistakes...4 drives in the middle of the game totaling 8 minutes....that's an awful offensive performance....in the first half alone, they had 4 drives for a total of 10 minutes..... that's not on defense. you have the ball. hold it, score. something.....you can't blame the defense for that.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,231
Reaction score
17,331
Because he doesn't doesn't mean he can't. We'll see what happens with Kellen Moore

No it means he'll only throw deep if it's a high percentage throw. Inherently throwing deep is a low percentage play.

Dak either is unwilling to challenge defenses and dictate terms of the passing attack or he is unable.
 

erod

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,908
Reaction score
58,577
Doesn't matter, all teams have to play back ups if needed. If their coaching is so great, he should have been prepared.

If a guy can't play, he can't play. No matter how you prepare him.
 

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
"Late in close games" is a massive qualifier. It ignores, what, 90% of the games?

For the record, I think most quarterbacks "dink and dunk," and dont' really think it's a problem.
I wasn't saying you think it's a problem, I was saying it's an inaccurate description of Prescott - unless you're only talking about the first three quarters of games. But of course, to do that would be to ignore fully half of what sets him apart.
 

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
8 points is a at least a two score game to either tie (TD + 2 point conversion) or take the lead (TD + extra point and FG or TD).

That’s not “close.”
I didn't define the term or invent this use of it, but I'm guessing it works the same way that an 8-point margin is commonly referred to as a "one possession game."

If you sense something misleading in using these particular parameters, you can certainly choose different parameters, and I'll be glad to look up results for you.
 

Afigueroa22

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,307
Reaction score
470
Here, and in the twitter thread from the OP as well. The upshot is that Dak is conservative through three quarters, and then lets loose late in close games.

15+yd targets by quarter
(as a percentage of total attempts)
1st Dal 12.8% NFL 17.2%
2nd Dal 14.6% NFL 18.3%
3rd Dal 9.2% NFL 17.4%
4th/OT Dal 18.9% NFL 18.6%
Late & Close Dal 25.7% NFL 20.0%
Is it Dak that is conservative or is it the play-calling?
 

Future

Intramural Legend
Messages
27,566
Reaction score
14,714
I wasn't saying you think it's a problem, I was saying it's an inaccurate description of Prescott - unless you're only talking about the first three quarters of games. But of course, to do that would be to ignore fully half of what sets him apart.
Well I mean, the first three quarters of games is the majority of the time. So, primarily, yes he's dink and dunk lol.
 

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
Did the article specify that it only included attempts to come from behind when it is "late & close" or did it include any situation in which there was a margin of 8 points or less in the 4th quarter? Obviously a team with an 8 point lead would act differently than one with an 8 point deficit, especially as it gets late in the 4th quarter.
There's no article involved here. In researching the two QB, I found an interesting contrast and made a tweet about it. Then someone made this thread about my tweet. "Late & Close" is exactly as I described above: margin of 8 points or less in the 4th qtr or OT. If you've looked at passing splits over the last 15 years or so, that's how the "late & close" split is defined. It's kind of a generic split.

If you'd like more specific splits for "leading by 8 points or less" or "trailing by 8 points or less," those can be easily provided.
 

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,928
Reaction score
22,452
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
There's no article involved here. In researching the two QB, I found an interesting contrast and made a tweet about it. Then someone made this thread about my tweet. "Late & Close" is exactly as I described above: margin of 8 points or less in the 4th qtr or OT. If you've looked at passing splits over the last 15 years or so, that's how the "late & close" split is defined. It's kind of a generic split.

If you'd like more specific splits for "leading by 8 points or less" or "trailing by 8 points or less," those can be easily provided.

I just think that matters because it's not a valid comparison between 2 QBs if the majority of the time one is in that situation it is with a lead, and the majority time the other is in that situation it is with a deficit.
 

percyhoward

Research Tool
Messages
17,062
Reaction score
21,861
I just think that matters because it's not a valid comparison between 2 QBs if the majority of the time one is in that situation it is with a lead, and the majority time the other is in that situation it is with a deficit.
Understood. That's why I said I'd be glad to get you more specific information.

4th qtr/OT
tied or leading by 8 points or less
Prescott
69 of 93 74.2% 994 yd 9 td 2 int 10.7 ypa 131.7
Wentz
34 of 49 69.4% 336 yd 4 td 1 int 6.9 ypa 107.2

4th qtr/OT
tied or trailing by 8 points or less
Prescott
81 of 124 65.3% 1203 yd 9 td 1 int 9.7 ypa 117.9
Wentz
50 of 79 63.3% 553 yd 3 td 1 int 7.0 ypa 91.4
 
Top