Byron Jones: Is he a bad safety?

[GhostOfPelluer]

Jones is actually in solid position here. It takes an all-time great throw to beat it. A RH QB rolling left and hitting a tiny window 35 yards down the field and the receiver being able to come down with the ball in bounds was a miraculous play.

Also, Carr was too deep. With safety help over the top and only one receiver going vertical, his responsibility is to be in front of that vertical receiver and reacting to the QB. He never leaves the outside left receiver and is oblivious to any underneath crossers.

Jones' responsibility on that play is to mirror Rodgers from a depth that helps prevent an undercutting receiver from coming back to a pass.

The scheme would have worked if Carr doesn't abandon his responsibility and simply carry that receiver deep, or if Lawrence doesn't wash himself out of the play with the inside rush - giving Rodgers the angle to make that throw.

 

[negativecreep]

Is he or isnt he, and why. See alot of different opinions here.

No, he's a very smart and talented FS and probably our most talented DB, I have not read this whole thread and I don't need to. He's just getting better, that's my opinion. Not sure why anyone would say he's not, but that's what this board is for, sharing opinions.

 

[CATCH17]

He's been pretty good for us and he's only a 2nd year player.

 

[ondaedg]

I keep seeing comments that he's solid. What is he solid at? He's not solid at picks and he's not solid at defending top tier tight ends. He doesn't knock alot of balls away. The definition of solid should be consistently above average which imho he is not. I have no ill will towards him and would love to see him become the next Ed Reed but I haven't seen that flash of brilliance that one would expect from a future pro bowler or all pro.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Who we should have drafted

 

[LocimusPrime]

I'm here to say, first of all, I'm neither saying Jones is bad nor am I saying Jones is good. He's still on my watch list.

There's a couple of points I have to bring up in light of what you presented. First, as much as fantasy stats don't tell an entire tale it was a well-established plus match-up most of last year to use your TE if they were playing Dallas. I believe the Dallas D was 32nd against TEs for a significant portion of the season. This is a bad thing if the team heralds Jones as being their TE stopper. Second, if we want to just toss the fantasy angle out the window and look at games where TEs had monster production it constitutes more than just the Chicago game***:

Playoffs Cook 103 yds, 1 TD Jones played 94% of snaps
Week 17 Ertz 139 yds, 2 TDs Jones played 89% of snaps
Week 16 Ebron 93 yds Jones played 100% of snaps
Week 15 Brate 73 yds, 1 TD Jones played 98% of snaps
Week 12 Reed 95 yds, 2 TDs Jones played 100% of snaps
Week 4 Celek 79 yds Jones played on 77% of snaps
Week 3 Miller - Already accounted for Jones played on 83% of snaps
Week 2 Reed 70 yds Jones played 99% of snaps - this is a good one for Jones but I think Reed might have still been hurt

Looking at this data I came away impressed by how much Jones does the most important thing a player can do: be out on the field and compete. He played a large portion of snaps. It's also key to note the snap percentage isn't the percentage of time he was on the TEs mentioned. He might have been on the other side of the field for all I know.

However, to place the blame for his poor passer-rating-against on one contest in Week 3 may be slightly disingenuous. There were other games where the TE was a plus match-up to the opponent and showed in the stats.

***Note: I didn't watch these games to know who did what on which play so for all I know Jones never covered any of these TEs in the game. But it would make sense for his passer-rating-against to be so bad if he was victimized several times for a TE's best game of the year or an obviously strong game from a TE.

Good info. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[DCBoysfan]

Jones is actually in solid position here. It takes an all-time great throw to beat it. A RH QB rolling left and hitting a tiny window 35 yards down the field and the receiver being able to come down with the ball in bounds was a miraculous play.

Also, Carr was too deep. With safety help over the top and only one receiver going vertical, his responsibility is to be in front of that vertical receiver and reacting to the QB. He never leaves the outside left receiver and is oblivious to any underneath crossers.

Jones' responsibility on that play is to mirror Rodgers from a depth that helps prevent an undercutting receiver from coming back to a pass.

The scheme would have worked if Carr doesn't abandon his responsibility and simply carry that receiver deep, or if Lawrence doesn't wash himself out of the play with the inside rush - giving Rodgers the angle to make that throw.

That throw was crazy stupid.

 

[rpntex]

I see the Cowboys in zone, and just as BB said, Carr stayed with the first receiver, instead of passing him off to the DB in the deep zone. If Carr isn't so deep, it massively narrows the area where Cook worked his way into.

 

[CyberB0b]

I see the Cowboys in zone, and just as BB said, Carr stayed with the first receiver, instead of passing him off to the DB in the deep zone. If Carr isn't so deep, it massively narrows the area where Cook worked his way into.

They're playing Cover 4. This is essentially the coverage they were running, with different personnel.

He's playing the same coverage the OLB are playing in this graphic.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

They're playing Cover 4. This is essentially the coverage they were running, with different personnel.

He's playing the same coverage the OLB are playing in this graphic.

It wasn't a cover four, it was more of a Cover 2 deep with three DBs in thirds underneath (Carr was here) the two deep with two more DBs underneath (Jones was one of these) them to help w crossers and comeback routes. It's a late game (or half) coverage for situations with limited time left.

It's essentially a 3-1-2-3-2 look with three rushers and a spy. If played correctly there's no room on the sidelines more than 10-15 yards down the field. The opening at 20-30 yards is supposed to be in the middle of the field but Carr went too deep.

 

[FaSho]

I wish he was more of a ballhawk, but INTs don't tell the whole story. He had a very good season (his first at FS) and will keep getting better. Pff graded him as one of the better safeties in the league.

 

[noshame]

IDK when a QB has 6 seconds to throw, no containment, along with a clear field of vision, tough to judge a DB. Can't get enough of the 3 man rush Rod

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I keep seeing comments that he's solid. What is he solid at? He's not solid at picks and he's not solid at defending top tier tight ends. He doesn't knock alot of balls away. The definition of solid should be consistently above average which imho he is not. I have no ill will towards him and would love to see him become the next Ed Reed but I haven't seen that flash of brilliance that one would expect from a future pro bowler or all pro.

He's got excellent range and tremendous speed and explosiveness to make up for plays where he gets fooled on or another DB gets fooled on. He's very good in man coverage and he can play top tier TE's well (don't know what you're talking about since he basically stopped Gronk, stopped Ertz in the first game, shut down Barnridge, and shut down Pitta. He's a solid form tackler that has been solid against the run. I think he's okay in zone coverage as he doesn't quite have the instincts just yet. But so much of his zone coverage was at single high safety because you don't dare put Wilcox or Church at that spot. That means being less likely to make an interception because you're not where the ball is being thrown as much.

And if you watch All-22, you can see a lot of mistakes being made by Carr, Church, Wilcox, Claiborne and Hitchens in coverage where Byron would tell them to be in a certain position and they would still be out of position. This season they weren't nearly as bad, but none of the players listed have a feel for zone coverage. Carr and Claiborne are man guys and Claiborne still has very good man skills. Church is a zone coverage guys, but he's very limited and doesn't have Kam Chancellor type hitting ability to make up for it. Wilcox can play man well and got better as the robber, but he's really lean on zone coverage, which is too bad since he hits like a truck. Hitchens gets fooled often and relies on his speed to make up for it.

I'd like to see Byron work on his zone coverage, but I'd also like to see him get to play more intermediate and short zone coverage. That's part of the exciting thing about Heath is he is much more versatile in coverage. I'd like to see him get more matchup man against good pass receiving TE's and big WR's like Alshon Jeffrey. I'd like to see him play with quality zone corners and a solid coverage linebacker at the MIKE. Get me a decent pass rush and he may not be Ed Reed (or Earl Thomas), but I'll take a Malcolm Jenkins type any day of the week.




YR

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Who we should have drafted

Man, you can play that game with every pick in every draft. Many teams had Jones rated higher because of his position flex (not just us). Collins has really come on and is great in his scheme, but he's still not going to cover a TE one-on-one.

 

[HeavyBarrel]

Who we should have drafted

So you're saying a Safety from Alabama turned out to be a better Safety than a Cornerback from Connecticut??? Inconceivable!!!

 

[mahoneybill]

Looking back at the Woodson era I noticed we had Brock Marion as FS and Darren as SS. I think thats the problem Jones has at this point. He doesn't have the complementary player with him at this point.

 

[Trouty]

Looking back at the Woodson era I noticed we had Brock Marion as FS and Darren as SS. I think thats the problem Jones has at this point. He doesn't have the complementary player with him at this point.

Peppers, mon frere!!!

 

[LocimusPrime]

So you're saying a Safety from Alabama turned out to be a better Safety than a Cornerback from Connecticut??? Inconceivable!!!

But yet we took the Connecticut one in the first while the Alabama one went in the second. Amazing isn't it

So maybe the front office should have listened to your common sense

 

[CyberB0b]

It wasn't a cover four, it was more of a Cover 2 deep with three DBs in thirds underneath (Carr was here) the two deep with two more DBs underneath (Jones was one of these) them to help w crossers and comeback routes. It's a late game (or half) coverage for situations with limited time left.

It's essentially a 3-1-2-3-2 look with three rushers and a spy. If played correctly there's no room on the sidelines more than 10-15 yards down the field. The opening at 20-30 yards is supposed to be in the middle of the field but Carr went too deep.

There's no such thing as a Cover 2 in thirds, that would be a Cover 3. Look at the two outside corners and safeties. All 4 are dropping back into deep coverage.

Everyone else cheated towards the closest receiver, because there was so much empty space. Jones was covering air and got out of position.

 

[Denim Chicken]