Cam Newton's Return

[TheMarathonContinues]

I believe in 2020 this is very possible.
Tom was not that good last year and his game has been about scheme for a long time.

Ok and how good was Cam last year? Or the two years prior?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No, I don't think I mentioned Tampa Bay.

You didn't. But the Patriots didn't do anything last year WITH Tom Brady. But you are proposing after a year of being hurt and rehabbing that with Cam the Patriots will stop the Cowboy from winning the Super Bowl.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think Cam went to the proper place.
But it's still unlikely he is a long-term answer much less a SB favorite.
All that said Brady wasn't a plus player last year.
A refreshed committed Cam might be really good in a single season type scenario.

It will be interesting because BB is a mad scientist and likely finds a way to be good.
All that said, the recent Pats offenses have been quick read short passing attack offenses.

Cam has run mostly longer read, play-action then run or pass it deeper type stuff.

He had really good seasons in timing based passing systems.

I think Bellicheat gets credit for the wrong things. He doesn't make people fit. His genius comes when he grabs the RIGHT players to fit what he does.

 

[Williamsboys]

This will be a very interesting season coming up, Dallas with a new coaching staff and a great draft, and trust me, alot of fans will be interested to see who does better, Tampa Bay Tom Brady or Bill Belichick WITHOUT him.

 

[jterrell]

Ok and how good was Cam last year? Or the two years prior?

He was trash.
But as we sit here today he's 31 and bigger, stronger and faster than Brady.
He's had a full year to get healthy and a year of working out to prepare for his next gig.

Brady had BY FAR the better supporting cast, coaching and routine in Boston.

Now as they flip ends of the country, Cam gets arguably the GOAT NFL Coach and the weather advantage that should play into his power running football.

I'm not saying it's a lock and I do think Cam's body will break down again at some point but on a 1 year basis I think it's very possible Cam is better than a 42 year old Brady.
All that said Tampa has elite WR weapons and if Brady can get the ball deep those guys will make massive plays.
I'm just not sure a 42 year old who's never been known for arm strength is the guy for that offense with deep vertical threats more so than quick, win at the line guys.

 

[jterrell]

I think Bellicheat gets credit for the wrong things. He doesn't make people fit. His genius comes when he grabs the RIGHT players to fit what he does.

This ignores that he totally changes what he does routinely.
He is generally running contrary to most of the league then they adapt and he changes again.

 

[xwalker]

... means no SB victory for the Cowboys in the Dak/Zeke/Amari era. Belichick just checkmated the rest of the NFL with a guy that was voted the best player on the planet not that long ago. A healthy Cam Newton that is resolute to stay in the pocket yet mobile enough to still get the ball out when the pocket breaks down will dominate all. What say you?

Appeal to Mods: If I had a vote, I would vote to keep this thread in the main forum for awhile considering nothing is happened at this point in time with the Cowboys other than Zeke's personal issues and Dak's contract.
- The fact that Newton was available combined with the fact that Dak has not signed a contract does make it relevant a Cowboys discussion, IMO.


Cam Newton is a mental midget.

There is no doubt that he has incredible physical talent, but QBs with (multi) million dollar physical talent and a 10 cent brain have not won very many Super Bowls.

The huge question is whether he can tolerate the extreme restrictions of having Belichick as his Head Coach.

The 2nd question is whether he can function in the same offense that Brady mastered even if it is drastically "dumbed down".

Even if Cam has success for a year or two, dealing with Belichick wears down many players. Brady and Gronk both eventually had enough.

Keep in mind that Cam had a complete meltdown during and after his Super Bowl loss.

The season following the Super Bowl loss:
For the 2016 season, Newton completed 52.9 percent of his passes, marking a career worst in that category. He threw 19 touchdown passes, 16 less than the previous year, and 14 interceptions, the second most of his career behind his rookie season. The Panthers regressed from their 15–1 record from the previous year to a 6–10 record in 2016.

 

[xwalker]

He was trash.
But as we sit here today he's 31 and bigger, stronger and faster than Brady.
He's had a full year to get healthy and a year of working out to prepare for his next gig.

Brady had BY FAR the better supporting cast, coaching and routine in Boston.

Now as they flip ends of the country, Cam gets arguably the GOAT NFL Coach and the weather advantage that should play into his power running football.

I'm not saying it's a lock and I do think Cam's body will break down again at some point but on a 1 year basis I think it's very possible Cam is better than a 42 year old Brady.
All that said Tampa has elite WR weapons and if Brady can get the ball deep those guys will make massive plays.
I'm just not sure a 42 year old who's never been known for arm strength is the guy for that offense with deep vertical threats more so than quick, win at the line guys.

Is it really a question of Belichick as the GOAT?

Belichick is a bit like Deion in that he is not a likable human, but his abilities/results are unmatched.

I guess people could hold the cheating issues against him, but that's really on Goodell for allowing it to happen, IMO.
- Most coaches push the limits, just not quite as much as Belichick has done.
- The Seahawks during the Richard Sherman era with their concept of committing pass interference so much that the refs and NFL would get tired of calling penalties worked for them but it's really cheating, IMO.
- The Packers ability to "hide" their OLs holding by studying exactly what the refs would and wouldn't call and exploiting the "loophole" so to speak.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

As a guy that has watched Cam here in town his entire career, Cam will benefit greatly from a better line.

He hasn't had a good offensive line in many years, not even during the Super Bowl game he played in.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

Even with a somewhat prime Cam, I can't see the Pats upsetting the Chiefs. Or maybe even Baltimore.

Or even the Titans. wink wink

 

[xwalker]

He was trash.
But as we sit here today he's 31 and bigger, stronger and faster than Brady.
He's had a full year to get healthy and a year of working out to prepare for his next gig.

Brady had BY FAR the better supporting cast, coaching and routine in Boston.

Now as they flip ends of the country, Cam gets arguably the GOAT NFL Coach and the weather advantage that should play into his power running football.

I'm not saying it's a lock and I do think Cam's body will break down again at some point but on a 1 year basis I think it's very possible Cam is better than a 42 year old Brady.
All that said Tampa has elite WR weapons and if Brady can get the ball deep those guys will make massive plays.
I'm just not sure a 42 year old who's never been known for arm strength is the guy for that offense with deep vertical threats more so than quick, win at the line guys.

Cam has been the worst starting QB in the league over the last two years. There’s a reason he was on the market so long.

When mobile QB’s legs fail them as they age...their career is over unless they take the steps to improve as a pocket passer. Cam Newton is not Cam Newton unless he can run and he’s too fragile for that and his decision making has been horrid trying to compensate for his new limitations.

Cam Newton has had shoulder problems during the 2017 and 2018 seasons and might have had some limitation from it in 2019 after Jan 2019 shoulder surgery.

He had a Lisfranc fracture in game 1 of 2019. He eventually went to IR because of it in November.

Cam fell apart after losing the Super Bowl with a terrible season in 2016. That all appears to be due to mental issues (although he did have a concussion that caused him to miss 2 starts.)

It seems that 2020 will be the 1st season that his shoulder is 100% or as close to 100% as it gets for QBs that have had shoulder surgery.

His success will most likely come down to his ability mentally to function under Belichick as the HC and in McDaniels offense, even if it is "dumbed down".

 

[TexasHillbilly]

I'm guessing you've never seen the movie Billy Madison. Thanks for taking the bait champ

Hook line and sinker people.

 

[jterrell]

Cam Newton has had shoulder problems during the 2017 and 2018 seasons and might have had some limitation from it in 2019 after Jan 2019 shoulder surgery.

He had a Lisfranc fracture in game 1 of 2019. He eventually went to IR because of it in November.

Cam fell apart after losing the Super Bowl with a terrible season in 2016. That all appears to be due to mental issues (although he did have a concussion that caused him to miss 2 starts.)

It seems that 2020 will be the 1st season that his shoulder is 100% or as close to 100% as it gets for QBs that have had shoulder surgery.

His success will most likely come down to his ability mentally to function under Belichick as the HC and in McDaniels offense, even if it is "dumbed down".

Don't disagree at all.
Wide variance in how things could go for Cam.
But I think the ceiling is pretty high for at least a 1 year return.
Long term his body has taken a lot of abuse for a QB and been breaking down due to it.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This ignores that he totally changes what he does routinely.
He is generally running contrary to most of the league then they adapt and he changes again.

I don't deny that. But this notion that he can just put anyone into his system and things will be successful is a myth. You only hear about the success stories. Everyone is not cut out for that system.

He was trash.
But as we sit here today he's 31 and bigger, stronger and faster than Brady.
He's had a full year to get healthy and a year of working out to prepare for his next gig.

Brady had BY FAR the better supporting cast, coaching and routine in Boston.

Now as they flip ends of the country, Cam gets arguably the GOAT NFL Coach and the weather advantage that should play into his power running football.

I'm not saying it's a lock and I do think Cam's body will break down again at some point but on a 1 year basis I think it's very possible Cam is better than a 42 year old Brady.
All that said Tampa has elite WR weapons and if Brady can get the ball deep those guys will make massive plays.
I'm just not sure a 42 year old who's never been known for arm strength is the guy for that offense with deep vertical threats more so than quick, win at the line guys.

Whether advantage? What the hell was wrong with the whether in Carolina and the division they play in?

I just don't understand how people can think Cam Newton with Julian Edelman will be better than Brady with Mike Evans, Godwin and Gronk.

 

[Jake]

... means no SB victory for the Cowboys in the Dak/Zeke/Amari era. Belichick just checkmated the rest of the NFL with a guy that was voted the best player on the planet not that long ago. A healthy Cam Newton that is resolute to stay in the pocket yet mobile enough to still get the ball out when the pocket breaks down will dominate all. What say you?

I say 2015 was five years and several surgeries ago. The guy had two offers.

 

[jterrell]

I don't deny that. But this notion that he can just put anyone into his system and things will be successful is a myth. You only hear about the success stories. Everyone is not cut out for that system.


Whether advantage? What the hell was wrong with the whether in Carolina and the division they play in?

I just don't understand how people can think Cam Newton with Julian Edelman will be better than Brady with Mike Evans, Godwin and Gronk.

Do you really not understand the Pats weather advantage?
Forcing teams to come play in that weather?

Agreed on the receiving weapons but I'm not sure Tom is the guy to take advantage of guys winning 25 yards downfield.

And I think it's clear you underrate BB and how he attacks teams/ designs game plans to win.
Defense and Special teams will be far better in NE and that matters.

All that said I would not be shocked if Cam tweaks something early and doesn't end up starting many games.
But all in all I think Cam at 31 is a better bet than Brady at 42 in their respective cities all things considered.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Do you really not understand the Pats weather advantage?
Forcing teams to come play in that weather?

Agreed on the receiving weapons but I'm not sure Tom is the guy to take advantage of guys winning 25 yards downfield.

And I think it's clear you underrate BB and how he attacks teams/ designs game plans to win.
Defense and Special teams will be far better in NE and that matters.

All that said I would not be shocked if Cam tweaks something early and doesn't end up starting many games.
But all in all I think Cam at 31 is a better bet than Brady at 42 in their respective cities all things considered.

I just don't get how you can say that when he has been bad for the past 3 years. And contrary to what some say Brady was not bad last year. His weapons were.

 

[jterrell]

I say 2015 was five years and several surgeries ago. The guy had two offers.

Tom Brady was a late round draft pick.
Assuming teams are genius is not really a good way to handle this topic.

Cam has significant risks.
He had a series of injuries and off the field mental health/happiness question marks.
But pretending Carolina had good offenses or comp[arable overall talent/coaching to Carolina would be disingenuous.
And no one is going to accuse Ron Rivera of being a good offensive mind.
In his last starting work in 2018 he wasn't that bad. 24 TD passes, 3400 yards passing and 94QB Rating. He added 100 rushes for almost 500 yards on the ground.
The team was trash though and that's what people recall.

Brady has issues as well but for very different reasons.
He's already the oldest QB to win a SB by a few years.
The prior oldest was Peyton at 39 years old.
Brady last year had an 88 QB Rating and passed for his lowest yardage total in a full season since 2010. He had the same 24 passing TDs as Cam did in 2018.

I think from a pure football standpoint people are ignoring going from a quick-read veteran laden team with every coaching aspect covered ad-nauseum to a deep ball big-play system where he is bringing all the offensive knowledge,

 

[jterrell]

I just don't get how you can say that when he has been bad for the past 3 years. And contrary to what some say Brady was not bad last year. His weapons were.

Cam's 2018 numbers were as good or better than Brady's in 2019.
And anyone knocking the Pats weapons but ignoring Carolina's is lying to themselves.

 

[DFWJC]

This is a really bizarre thread.
One of weirdest in awhile.
And that is saying ALOT