Can Newman Stick with Moss?

[superpunk]

Didnt we shadow Steve Smith in Parcells second to last year here with Newman on every play?

The game where Smith got ejected for pushing Newman he was so frustrated...

With Newman, yes. We didn't add the LB wrinkle to beat him up off the ball.

People are playing scared against the Pats. Sitting back and hoping you catch some breaks. Someone's gotta run up and punch em in the face. Might as well be us. Might as well have our OLBs blow Moss up every time he releases inside.

 

[DTK]

No, I'm not. I'm basing it on his domination during those years. His most prolific accomplishment was complete domination of the best receiver to ever play the game so in turn I stress it. I think Newman and Ware are the top two players on our defense just like Smith and Haley where back then. Funny how a top pass rusher and a top CB work in tandem. A pass rusher can get more sacks if a top CB like Smith or Newman. A CB can get more INTs if you have a monster pass rusher like Ware and Haley.

Newman is great, but I've seen him get beat. I honestly do not remember Smith ever getting beaten on a big play between 92' and 94'.

I've been trying to figure out how you've come to the conclusion that Smith had "compete domination of the best receiver to ever play the game". I don't recall Pup EVER owning Rice, so I checked for some stats and this is what I found.

In the 1992 NFC Championship game: Rice 8 - 123 yards and 1 TD. He also had a 63 yard TD called back because of a holding penalty. I would hardly call that domination.

The other game I found was the next regular season game in which he had 8 catches for 74 yards. Again, not complete domination. I've yet to find the other two games, but I will.

So where is this complete domination? Pup was good, no doubt. But to say he dominated Jerry Rice is...well, crazy.

 

[DTK]

OK, here you go with Rice versus Kevin Smith.

1992 NFC Title Game: Rice 8-123 1TD
1993 Reg. Season: Rice 7-82
1993 NFC Title Game: Rice 6-82
1994 Reg. Season: Rice 5-93 1 TD
1994 NFC Title Game: Rice 2-36 1TD

You can find this at NFL.com and search Jerry Rice, check his game logs.

I would hardly call that domination. Like I said, I loved Pup and all, but owning Jerry Rice. C'mon.

 

[TonyFreakinRomo]

Romo could

 

[Frozen700]

Romo could

Drew Bledsoe is that you?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it!

I've been trying to figure out how you've come to the conclusion that Smith had "compete domination of the best receiver to ever play the game". I don't recall Pup EVER owning Rice, so I checked for some stats and this is what I found.

In the 1992 NFC Championship game: Rice 8 - 123 yards and 1 TD. He also had a 63 yard TD called back because of a holding penalty. I would hardly call that domination.

You mean this?

SAN FRANCISCO - When the greatest receiver in NFL history caught the game's most important pass Sunday, he was not covered by his old nemesis.

When it mattered most, Jerry Rice was defended one on one by Dallas cornerback Larry Brown. A 57-yard touchdown bomb from 49ers quarterback Steve Young came at Brown's expense. What happened to Cowboys cornerback Kevin Smith, who usually handles Rice with amazing success?

Smith was defending another receiver on other side

The other game I found was the next regular season game in which he had 8 catches for 74 yards. Again, not complete domination. I've yet to find the other two games, but I will.

You are right, now lets finish the rest of what you left out because it didn't suit you.
LINK

"There was a little bit of talking going on and I decided to try and dish out a little myself and I got the flag," Rice said. 'We'll Destroy You'

"I knew it was over for them then," Smith said. "As soon as I got him talking trash like me, I knew I had him. Without him, they are not that good. I told him he's in my neck of the woods. He's in my game."

Defensive lineman Jim Jeffcoat of Dallas, sounding like Darth Vader, agreed. "Jerry Rice came over and started popping off, and that's the worst thing he could have done," Jeffcoat said. "Don't ever come in here and challenge us like that, or we'll destroy you."

Rice still finished with 6 catches for 83 yards, but he wasn't a factor in the game. Then again, no 49er was.

Whoops, it appears Rice DID GET OWNED! Thank you!

So where is this complete domination? Pup was good, no doubt. But to say he dominated Jerry Rice is...well, crazy.

Pup dominated Rice, and in a championship game no less.

 

[YosemiteSam]

See above. During many of those games, the 49ers moved Rice over to Larry Browns side or Issac Holt was covering him. Thank you, please try again.

OK, here you go with Rice versus Kevin Smith.

1992 NFC Title Game: Rice 8-123 1TD
1993 Reg. Season: Rice 7-82
1993 NFC Title Game: Rice 6-82
1994 Reg. Season: Rice 5-93 1 TD
1994 NFC Title Game: Rice 2-36 1TD

You can find this at NFL.com and search Jerry Rice, check his game logs.

I would hardly call that domination. Like I said, I loved Pup and all, but owning Jerry Rice. C'mon.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Brady to Moss can be negated by a ton of pressure on Brady. Now that Ellis is looking "healthy" again, I suspect that they will get Ellis, Spencer and Ware on the field in certain packages just to bring the heat.

 

[DTK]

LOL. I didn't leave anything out because it didn't suit me. The guy said Pup dominated him. I don't recall it being that way, so I simply checked NFL.com and found Rice stats from those games. I would hardly call those stats as being dominated. I'd also add that in a few of those games, Darren Woodson would cover Rice in the slot. So Pup wasn't manned up on him all day.

 

[DTK]

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it!

You mean this?


You are right, now lets finish the rest of what you left out because it didn't suit you.
LINKWhoops, it appears Rice DID GET OWNED! Thank you!
Pup dominated Rice, and in a championship game no less.

Where in that article does it say Smith was manned up on Rice and shut him down? NO WHERE! Did we contain him? Yes. Was it because of Smith? Partly. But a lot of credit goes to our LB's like Norton, Darrin Smith and Dixon Edwards for covering the underneath routes which were so vital to the WCO. We were more of a zone defense back then. There wasn't a lot of bump and run coverage by our corners, that I recall. I may be wrong about that, but I do know that his stats weren't bad enough to be considered being owned.

If that's the case then T.O. was owned by the Rams corners on Sunday.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Didnt we shadow Steve Smith in Parcells second to last year here with Newman on every play?

The game where Smith got ejected for pushing Newman he was so frustrated...

Newman I believe covered Smith until Smith got ejected..

But Newman matches up better to Smith. Both are quick/fast and Newman is 2 inches taller than Smith.

Newman shouldn't be isolated on Moss, as he will lose on the perfectly thrown deep ball from Cool Tom.

 

[YosemiteSam]

With Newman, yes. We didn't add the LB wrinkle to beat him up off the ball.

I remember Newman getting the best of Smith, but they must not have moved him around, because I can't rememeber a single time Parcells would *shadow* a player. Generally, if Newman played the left corner, that is where he was all game. (unless playing the slot when in the nickel)

 

[superpunk]

I remember Newman getting the best of Smith, but they must not have moved him around, because I can't rememeber a single time Parcells would *shadow* a player. Generally, if Newman played the left corner, that is where he was all game. (unless playing the slot when in the nickel)

We did it against Carolina and Washington last year (the game Moss played in). Saw it in-game, and Parcells confirmed it in that really long NY Times piece someone posted a while back.

None others, that I can recall.

 

[khiladi]

Where in that article does it say Smith was manned up on Rice and shut him down? NO WHERE! Did we contain him? Yes. Was it because of Smith? Partly. But a lot of credit goes to our LB's like Norton, Darrin Smith and Dixon Edwards for covering the underneath routes which were so vital to the WCO. We were more of a zone defense back then.

I think it is implicit that when an article says:

What a relief Shed of nemesis Smith,

It means that Kevin Smith got the best of the greatest receiver in the game, otherwise, words such as relief' and 'shed' would not be employed. The clear fact is the article itself insinuates that Smith was the nemesis of Jerry Rice, and that it was only when Smith was relieved of covering Rice, did he score...

Smith was in Rice's head...

 

[QT]

Holy Smokes, this is turning into a Kevin Smith vs Terrance Newman thread. 11 pages and we still have two weeks til the game.

I'm a big Kevin Smith fan. Saw him a few times in Dallas after he retired at Seafood restaurants here in Dallas. I'm a big TNew fan also. We will never know if one is better then the other, but the point of this thread is if Newman can stick with Moss.

I don't think so. Newman is not 100%. Newman gives up 5 inches to Moss. I'm sure Newman will have 20 out of 25 (if they put Newman on Moss) good covering plays on Moss, but those 5 plays that Newman doesn't, might end up in a big long play or TD. There is nothing Newman can do against the quick lob in the back of the endzone. Not only does Newman give 5 inches to Moss, factor in that Moss' arms are probably longer then Newman's also.

Did you see that TD that Moss caught from Brady where the corner is basically running stride for stride with Moss on the sideline? Brady threw it over both of them and where Moss could extend his arms. Moss just outstretched his long arms and caught the ball. Nothing the CB could do in that play. He had good coverage on him too.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Would you line him up man to man and hope for the best. I think you have to play him press coverage and get over the top help for Newman.

I would personally line up Newman with him wherever he was on the field, press coverage, and give him help over the top. I think Newman can stick with him on the deep ball but would be playing catchup and not in a position to play the ball thereby needing help.

How would you guys suggest playing him, he has been uncoverable in the games I have watched NE play.

No he cannot do it alone.

 

[DallasEast]

Holy Smokes, this is turning into a Kevin Smith vs Terrance Newman thread. 11 pages and we still have two weeks til the game.

Nah. Only four pages.