Can you believe that we got Terry Glenn for a 5th round draft pick?

[Eskimo]

...be special for Glenn. He doesn't have to carry this team because there is a more dangerous threat on the other side.

He also doesn't have to take on the middle of the field, but rather focus on his strength which is route running in open space.

I don't expect big yardage numbers, but I have a feeling that Glenn may just surprise the league with low catch totals and a very high ypc avg.

I think that Glenn will likely top his numbers from last year because the OL is improved (still not great but hopefully not the horror show that was the second half of last year) and he has TO on the other side now attracting lots of attention.

I also expect Julius and Barber to put up better numbers on the ground.

My actual big area of concern is still defending the run up the gut. I'm not sure Fergy is going to be able to hold the fort and I don't think Stanley is going to be ready to step up this year. Hopefully improved play from Carpenter, James and Ayodele mitigate this weakness to some extent.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Yep, she aint half bad.

 

[riggo]

the constant TO bashing in here that went on UNTIL he became a cowboy and now the constant jock carrying - gets annoying.

 

[ravidubey]

Can you believe we sent two first rounders to Seattle for Joey Galloway???

Can you believe we then sent another 3rd rounder to Seattle for James McKnight??

Who's the stupid looking one now???

Desperation accelerated the Cowboys' demise. Jones did not realize his team was a mere veneer of what it had been in the past. He was gambling and taking risks all over the lineup with guys like Alonzo Spellman. He, along with a lot of people, felt that had Greg Ellis not broken his leg, James McKnight not torn his ACL in the Blue-White scrimmage, and Michael Irvin not gone down that the Cowboys would have been competing for a Superbowl in 1999.

So he went for it in 2000, taking even more risks like with Demetrius Underwood and a Leon Lett who could barely stand and betting the farm on Aikman, Smith, and Galloway.

It was all he knew and it had worked in the past. Problem is Aikman and Smith were too old to remain effective and the Cowboys had some truly terrible offensive linemen and corners to boot. Larry and Woody couldn't save the day by themselves and Flozell wasn't yet the player he's become.

A true GM would have seen all of this, but Jones couldn't-- he identified too closely with his stars and was unable to distance himself. Well, add to this an inability to draft well and it all collapsed.

Now we've finally built a real front office built around better scouting and football people. It's no coincidence that outside of a few first rounders like Ellis, Flozell, and Roy our true foundations are built on drafts from 2003 onwards. Jerry learned the hard way that being a maverick and gambling on shortcuts does not lend itself well to running a football team. I think we are now truly lucky to have Jerry Jones as our owner-- we paid the price for his learning curve, but we do have three more Superbowl trophies to show for it .

 

[riggo]

it was actually for a 6th, and yeah, I can't believe it now, esp. watching the Skins give up a 3rd and 4th for Brandon Lloyd and giving him twice the contract Glenn received

lloyds numbers last year- on the worst offense in football- were actually better than what glenn has averaged with 10 years in the league with QB's like bledsoe and favre throwing to him.

when you factor in the fact that he's a former #7 overall pick - by bill parcells- who has been a bust by making all of 1 pro bowl...7 years ago...., been a headcase who was benched for the season 4 games into a season in which his team went on to win the super bowl, has been plagued by injury.... and likes to get drunk and to pee behind fast food joints......, lloyd looks like a steal.


seriously, glenn had a good year last year. and he'll probably be good this year, though injury history and age suggest otherwise. up til last year, he hadnt done squat.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Be proud iceberg. You have riggo agreeing with you.

And looky, now that Lloyd is a Commander, riggo comes to the rescue with his "objectivity."

And to set the record straight, I never bashed TO, and there are many posters in here that did not prior to him being a Cowboy, nor after he became one. There are also many posters in here who do not like TO, and have said so, and still say so after the 'Boys signed him.

 

[gbrittain]

What are you for? Like you guys would not have Sean Taylor doing 25 to life if he were a Cowboy.

Since Sean Taylor is a Commander there are tons of threads and hundreds of posts defending poor Sean Taylor. Dude has the makings of a thug. Wasn't he arrested earlier in the year for a DWI charge?

I think you are going to have save your for you Commander fans and their hypocrisy regarding Sean Taylor.

TO has the makings of a bad teamate, Sean Taylor has the makings of a criminal. Do the math.

 

[riggo]

Be proud iceberg. You have riggo agreeing with you.

iceberg made a legit and obvious point. many old school cowboy fans agree with him.

And looky, now that Lloyd is a Commander, riggo comes to the rescue with his objectivity

what part wasnt objective?

And to set the record straight, I never bashed TO, and there are many posters in here that did not prior to him being a Cowboy, nor after he became one. There are also many posters in here who do not like TO, and have said so, and still say so after the 'Boys signed him.

i'm sure there are cowboy fans who never have 'bashed' TO on a message board, but this is the guy who posed on the star. even i loved it when teague drilled him for that. TO deserved to be bashed for that alone, whether any cowboy fan actually said so on a message board or not.i've said so before, i have a lot of respect for cowboy fans who have a problem with TO being a cowboy.

 

[iceberg]

Be proud iceberg. You have riggo agreeing with you.

And looky, now that Lloyd is a Commander, riggo comes to the rescue with his "objectivity."

And to set the record straight, I never bashed TO, and there are many posters in here that did not prior to him being a Cowboy, nor after he became one. There are also many posters in here who do not like TO, and have said so, and still say so after the 'Boys signed him.

did i say "you"? no - i said the typical mindset of the average cowboy fan was bash TO w/o mercy with a thousand valid reasons. the very second he's THINKING about being a cowboy, the tide starts turning. now that he is, there's a large contingent of fans that are now making him to be the victim and misunderstood and if he went to ANY OTHER TEAM the bashings would continue and we'd be laughing at "the fools".

i'd like to think ANY rational person could see the shift in mindset regardless of which team they root for. just because a player puts on "our colors" doesn't make them a good guy all of a sudden and worthy of fan-fickleness.

i hated TO when he was a 9'er, i hated him when he was an eagle, i'll hate him the entire time he's a cowboy, and i'll probably hate him after the NFL also. i don't suddenly like a guy just because he's on our "team" when that word is the LAST thing he gives a damn about.

when TO puts the team ahead of himself, THEN i'll think he's changing. till then, he's the same old punk i always hated and i just have to deal with the fact he's a cowboy. i won't excuse or justify his past behavior when i was so adamantly against it before.

we call those fans hypocrites on other teams, just never use that label so freely on ourselves for the very same actions.

if you don't think the average fan changed opinions overnight, great. i do. we'll agree to disagree and move on.

 

[iceberg]

What are you for? Like you guys would not have Sean Taylor doing 25 to life if he were a Cowboy.

Since Sean Taylor is a Commander there are tons of threads and hundreds of posts defending poor Sean Taylor. Dude has the makings of a thug. Wasn't he arrested earlier in the year for a DWI charge?

I think you are going to have save your for you Commander fans and their hypocrisy regarding Sean Taylor.

TO has the makings of a bad teamate, Sean Taylor has the makings of a criminal. Do the math.

hypocracy regarding taylor? hey, i just don't care for taylor but what did he *really* do?

this is what *i* today understand the issue to be:

the scenario/charge:
Taylor was arrested late Saturday night after he turned himself in to the Miami-Dade County Police Department. He was charged with aggravated assault with a firearm, a third-degree felony, and simple assault, a first-degree misdemeanor.

what he did:
However, a press release yesterday from the police department made no mention of whether Taylor fired any shots or whether any shots even were fired. It specifically said Taylor pointed a firearm at two victims and that no shots were fired at that time.

the incident:
According to the press release, the incident began Wednesday evening when Taylor drove his blue 2005 Yukon Denali to an area in southern Dade County. He was accompanied by Charles Elwood Caughman of Baltimore and several other unidentified individuals. Some members of the group were in a second vehicle.
Taylor accused the two victims of stealing a pair of all-terrain vehicles, according to the press release. He pointed a gun at them and demanded his property be returned. No shots were fired. Taylor's group left the scene and returned about 10 minutes later. Taylor got out of the car and "physically assaulted one victim with his fists," the press release said. Caughman wielded a baseball bat as he chased the second victim. The second victim was not struck. Taylor's group then fled the scene again.

all pulled from:
http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050606-123849-8725r.htm

so, someone supposedly stole his property, he waved a gun at them to get it back, and then proceeded to beat the hell out of the people instead, never firing a shot.

take out sean taylor and put in jojo monkey - no one in here cares, and certainly if we did find out about it we'd identify with the side protecting their property.

in an objective world that alone is NOT something to send someone way for awhile. we'd like to think so in here cause he's a Commander and that alone should be a manditory 2 years SOMEWHERE.

in reality someone steals my truck, i'm coming at 'em if i know who did it and it won't be pretty. i don't own a gun but i'd damn sure stop for a bat.

in a perfect world we call the police, they come and take a report, they go find it and it's back safe the next day but as people we're emotional, not perfect. i agree sean needs to curb his anger and not go waving guns around, but for that alone it's stupid to think he should go to prison.

"it's the law!!!" - you bet! but now let's apply "that" logic evenly and see where we get.

sorry, unless there's more to this i don't see the facination of the case against him and he probably will get a slap on the wrist and told to be more careful.

just like jojo monkey would only we'd not care.

 

[SultanOfSix]

"the constant TO bashing in here that went on UNTIL he became a cowboy and now the constant jock carrying - gets annoying"

I don't think there was constant bashing at all which stopped when he became a Cowboy. There were those who bashed him before he became a Cowboy, and there are still those who bash him after. There are also those who never bashed him, and welcome him to the team. Generalization of the "average" fan base may work in this case. But this is NOT AN AVERAGE board.

There will always be fans who switch sides just because a certain player is on the team. See "riggo" for example and his subjugation of Glenn's play to that of Lloyd's because the latter is a Commander. Any NFL talent scout would laugh in his face at his use of statistics. Lloyd has potential. But Glenn has proven it.

As far as TO posing on the star. Who gives a crap? The best way to shut a player up is to stop him on the field of play. And the play of the Cowboys was more embarrassing to me on that day than anything that TO did.

 

[iceberg]

"the constant TO bashing in here that went on UNTIL he became a cowboy and now the constant jock carrying - gets annoying"

I don't think there was constant bashing at all which stopped when he became a Cowboy. There were those who bashed him before he became a Cowboy, and there are still those who bash him after. There are also those who never bashed him, and welcome him to the team. Generalization of the "average" fan base may work in this case. But this is NOT AN AVERAGE board.

There will always be fans who switch sides just because a certain player is on the team. See "riggo" for example and his subjugation of Glenn's play to that of Lloyd's because the latter is a Commander. Any NFL talent scout would laugh in his face at his use of statistics. Lloyd has potential. But Glenn has proven it.

As far as TO posing on the star. Who gives a crap? The best way to shut a player up is to stop him on the field of play. And the play of the Cowboys was more embarrassing to me on that day than anything that TO did.

i don't give a crap. i'm glad he did so teague COULD deck him for it and show some pride. i only wish roy williams would have done it and then maybe TO wouldn't be *able* to be here today.

again - agree to disagree. we went from bashing to and the fools that had him, loved it when we could double up misfortunes on the eagles, and so forth. NO ONE THEN felt TO was misunderstood or the eagles could be right. show me - give me some posts from a year ago IN HERE supporting TO.

when he got here he got his own section of hte newsgroup just to give the TO-lickers some place to play w/o bugging the rest of the newsgroup with the banter and the WE'RE LEGIT NOW!!! mantra.

if you don't see it, great. to a point i envy you, but only to a point.

 

[riggo]

What are you for? Like you guys would not have Sean Taylor doing 25 to life if he were a Cowboy.

Since Sean Taylor is a Commander there are tons of threads and hundreds of posts defending poor Sean Taylor. Dude has the makings of a thug. Wasn't he arrested earlier in the year for a DWI charge?

I think you are going to have save your for you Commander fans and their hypocrisy regarding Sean Taylor.

TO has the makings of a bad teamate, Sean Taylor has the makings of a criminal. Do the math.

we're talking about TO, not taylor. but, if anyone was being a hypocrite about taylor, then they get the hammer as well. fair enough?

 

[iceberg]

we're talking about TO, not taylor. but, if anyone was being a hypocrite about taylor, then they get the hammer as well. fair enough?

so far from a neutral perspective, i'm happy agreeing with you. : )

 

[theebs]

This thread went from Parcells shrewdness in trading for glenn for a 6th round pick in 04 to TO and Sean Taylor.

Wow. Trolls rule I guess.

One thing I have no interest in talking about is TO or Sean Taylor. Its all a waste of time.

 

[riggo]

There will always be fans who switch sides just because a certain player is on the team. See "riggo" for example and his subjugation of Glenn's play to that of Lloyd's because the latter is a Commander. Any NFL talent scout would laugh in his face at his use of statistics. Lloyd has potential. But Glenn has proven it

sultan, youre a reasonable poster. the topic was about glenn being a steal as a trade for a 6th rounder.as far as glenn proving anything, besides his 99 season and last year, he hasnt done anything, which is why the cowboys got him for a 6th rounder. that's all i'm saying. how is that not being objective?? what was wrong with my stats?lloyd is a young talent with no major injury concerns or headcase issues, hence, less risk. he should cost more in draft picks.

 

[gbrittain]

hypocracy regarding taylor? hey, i just don't care for taylor but what did he *really* do?

this is what *i* today understand the issue to be:

the scenario/charge:
Taylor was arrested late Saturday night after he turned himself in to the Miami-Dade County Police Department. He was charged with aggravated assault with a firearm, a third-degree felony, and simple assault, a first-degree misdemeanor.

what he did:
However, a press release yesterday from the police department made no mention of whether Taylor fired any shots or whether any shots even were fired. It specifically said Taylor pointed a firearm at two victims and that no shots were fired at that time.

the incident:
According to the press release, the incident began Wednesday evening when Taylor drove his blue 2005 Yukon Denali to an area in southern Dade County. He was accompanied by Charles Elwood Caughman of Baltimore and several other unidentified individuals. Some members of the group were in a second vehicle.
Taylor accused the two victims of stealing a pair of all-terrain vehicles, according to the press release. He pointed a gun at them and demanded his property be returned. No shots were fired. Taylor's group left the scene and returned about 10 minutes later. Taylor got out of the car and "physically assaulted one victim with his fists," the press release said. Caughman wielded a baseball bat as he chased the second victim. The second victim was not struck. Taylor's group then fled the scene again.

all pulled from:
http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050606-123849-8725r.htm

so, someone supposedly stole his property, he waved a gun at them to get it back, and then proceeded to beat the hell out of the people instead, never firing a shot.

take out sean taylor and put in jojo monkey - no one in here cares, and certainly if we did find out about it we'd identify with the side protecting their property.

in an objective world that alone is NOT something to send someone way for awhile. we'd like to think so in here cause he's a Commander and that alone should be a manditory 2 years SOMEWHERE.

in reality someone steals my truck, i'm coming at 'em if i know who did it and it won't be pretty. i don't own a gun but i'd damn sure stop for a bat.

in a perfect world we call the police, they come and take a report, they go find it and it's back safe the next day but as people we're emotional, not perfect. i agree sean needs to curb his anger and not go waving guns around, but for that alone it's stupid to think he should go to prison.

"it's the law!!!" - you bet! but now let's apply "that" logic evenly and see where we get.

sorry, unless there's more to this i don't see the facination of the case against him and he probably will get a slap on the wrist and told to be more careful.

just like jojo monkey would only we'd not care.

Ice I could care less what Sean Taylor did or did not do. My point remains, had Sean Taylor played for the Cowboys and did or alleged to have done what has been reported the Skins fans would be crucifying Sean Taylor.

This is not about you, you are not a Commander fan. It is kind of like I can talk bad about my brother, but my neighbor can not.

I do not need some Skins fan getting out the ole hammer meet nail when they are as guilty. Do that all you want a Skins board, be my guest. Not in our house. Sure you can do it, but dont think you will not get called on it.

 

[stilltheguru]

sultan, youre a reasonable poster. the topic was about glenn being a steal as a trade for a 6th rounder.as far as glenn proving anything, besides his 99 season and last year, he hasnt done anything, which is why the cowboys got him for a 6th rounder. that's all i'm saying. how is that not being objective?? what was wrong with my stats?lloyd is a young talent with no major injury concerns or headcase issues, hence, less risk. he should cost more in draft picks.

no headcase issues?ask the niners staff before u speak

 

[iceberg]

Ice I could care less what Sean Taylor did or did not do. My point remains, had Sean Taylor played for the Cowboys and did or alleged to have done what has been reported the Skins fans would be crucifying Sean Taylor.

sure they would - but that's from a "fan to fan" perspective not putting that aside and judging things for what they really are.

Commanders fans do a lot of stupid things. *all* fans do a lot of stupid things. doesn't mean we need to keep on doing it.

 

[riggo]

so far from a neutral perspective, i'm happy agreeing with you. : )

see, we CAN all get along. good points about taylors case, btw.