Canty & Spears-"Need more out of them"-- Bill Parcells

[DallasDW00ds0n]

its gonna be ugly this week if we cant pressure Brees

 

[cowboyjoe]

Exactly, we've got to hit and pressure Brees, are he will pick us apart. As you all know, we have trouble from our free safety, and sometimes strong safety in coverage.

Sean Payton coach of Saints, knows our defense and how to attack it, if you look at a lot of his plays this year, they have been deep passes to WR down the field, which is our weakest link, deep coverage.

So, granted our defensive linemen dont have to get a lot of sacks, but pressure Brees, make him throw before he wants too. and play good defense and contain their 2 running backs.

I think their star rookie WR is or will still be out with ankle injury, and I think Joe Horn will be out too, due to hamstring, so key issue contain Brees, pressure him and get after their running backs.

 

[dogunwo]

Remember these guys are still in year 2. Everyone cannot be instant start in a few years, Example-Bradie James. We have a very, very young D that will only get better.

I understand your point, but sometime soon, the light is going to have to click soon. Maybe Bill can bring in some of his old defensive line stars to help. And while we're at it, maybe bring over Jumbo Elliot to help the o-line.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Well Parcells reply to the reporters was when one of them told Parcells said that he Canty had a hard time getting down in stance, etc,

Parcells replied, Too Tall Jones didnt have a problem, and he was 6-9. So, why dont we get Too Tall Jones to come in for a week and tutor Canty and Spears, maybe help Hatcher alittle too, although hatcher is doing pretty good.


For motivation, i would say bring in Randy White, and tutor spears in motivation.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

During today's press conference (12-4) Bill Parcells mentioned several times that our defensive ends need to contribute more-- especially in the pass rush.

he's been saying that since around week 4, it's almost every week, if not every other week, he says in his PCs that he needs to see more from those 2 in the pass-rush

What do you think?

I've been one of the people that has been critical of the lack of pass-rush by our starting 3-4 defensive ends. Some have said that 3-4 DE's don't have to be pass-rushers. The coach seems to have a different point of view. Obviously 2 sacks out of both guys through 12 games is not acceptable in Bill Parcells' eyes.

Parcells even mentioned that we may have different starters out there-- soon if they don't pick up the pace.

Some may blame Zimmer... I'm blaming Canty & Spears. I don't think either is playing up to potential quite frankly.

doesn't matter how good a coach there is, if your front 3 are getting stonewalled in the pass-rush, what good are schemes? and I was blasted for saying they need to be more consistent, it's not like they never do well in the pass-rush, but that it's very inconsistent, and they need to do more

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Remember these guys are still in year 2. Everyone cannot be instant start in a few years, Example-Bradie James. We have a very, very young D that will only get better.

well BP says he needs to see more, inexperience isn't an excuse anymore, they're starters, no more on-the-job training

 

[Bob Sacamano]

yesterday our LBs tackled poorly and took strange routes, same with FS/SS.

it was a bad day all around, our 3 guys up front weren't occupying enough blockers, on those big runs, it seemed every one of our LBs had a personal blocker

 

[Cbz40]

I understand your point, but sometime soon, the light is going to have to click soon. Maybe Bill can bring in some of his old defensive line stars to help. And while we're at it, maybe bring over Jumbo Elliot to help the o-line.

You would think so.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

well again MW, they are replaced on virtually every passing down

how many sacks do you epect them to get?

David

teams pass on 1st and 2nd down too don't you know?

 

[2much2soon]

Come playoff time the 'boys can't leave a Brees or Hasselback standing back there with no pressure for 5-10 seconds every time they drop back to pass. It will get ugly if they do.

 

[FLcowboy]

If they are not going to call blitzes, if they are going to have ware and or others out in coverage.

Than yes those guys have to create more pressure.

So yes it is on the players in some respects, sometimes the scheme in others.

The other night, James blitzed untouched into the backfield and Manning easily sidestepped him and threw for a touchdown. Maybe the players need to learn how to blitz.

 

[Wood]

Hatcher has earned the right to start (so has Barber on offense). I like Spears size but he just takes too many plays off. Canty needs to increase his upper body strength (huge thighs but small upper-body). If we dont see increased production from Canty and Spears over the next two game I think you are looking at: Hatcher, Fergy and Ratliff as starters. They will move Ratliff over I believe. Parcells sent a strong message today...we will find out if these guys care.

 

[MONT17]

this just me but comparing most 3-4s to the Cowboys 3-4 in terms of getting sacks out of the DL is wrong... most 3-4s run multiple "Zone Dogs" the Cowboys never have Canty and Spears droping in zones... as far as I know anyway! Most 3-4 teams replace those DE who cant get to the QB with Guys like Palumalo and Willie McGinest in the form of a zone blitz!!!

therefore since the Boys do not have that type of attack then it is important to get something from Spears and Canty when they play the pass!

Why wouldnt anyone including BP want the DEs to do more... I would take a pass defensed every now and then! Haley and Too Tall were masters at getting their hands up in the QBs passing lanes! Canty and Spears are out to lunch in this area!!!

I also think BP gave them both too much too soon last year and they did not work very hard or long for their starting jobs, it was basicly given to them by a coach who was having doubts in his win loss record!

 

[Rack]

You're 100% right.

For some reason many want to pile on Zimmer and give Canty & Spears a free ride-- no more it seems. Parcells' is putting the wood to Canty & Spears. 2 sacks over 12 games isn't acceptable. That's not all the scheme. A 3-4 defense doesn't mean the defensive ends are totally allevated of their pass-rushing responsibilities-- like some here would have all of us believe.

Yes, over the passed 7 years our lack of a pass rush has been because of ALL the players we've had here, not the coaching. It's ALL cuz of the players..

Again...


Zimmer doesn't preach to his DL to attack. He preaches "read & react". When you read & react every dang time, you don't get consistent pressure.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yes, over the passed 7 years our lack of a pass rush has been because of ALL the players we've had here, not the coaching. It's ALL cuz of the players..

Again...


Zimmer doesn't preach to his DL to attack. He preaches "read & react". When you read & react every dang time, you don't get consistent pressure.

OK Rack...

So you're saying that Parcells is so incredibly stupid that he would not just allow a inept coach, who has no understanding of "pass-rush", to continue teaching his "inept" methods but will retain the guy year after year?



Yeah I'm sure Reggie White is resting peacefully tonight knowing that his sack record was never threatened by tremendous talents like:

Ebenezer Ekuban
Marcellus Wiley
Shante Carver
Kavika Pittman
Peppi Zellner

Because they were "ruined" by inept coaching.

 

[Rack]

OK...

So you're saying that Parcells is so incredibly stupid that he would not just allow a inept coach, who has no understanding of "pass-rush", to continue teaching his "inept" methods but will retain the guy year after year?

He's afraid he'll get something worse.

Tell me, how long did he stick with Bledsoe before replacing him? Was he stupid for keeping him in as long as he did?

Yeah I'm sure Reggie White is resting peacefully tonight knowing that his sack record was never threatened by tremendous talents like:

Ebenezer Ekuban
Marcellus Wiley
Shante Carver
Kavika Pittman
Peppi Zellner

Those guys never had a chance with Zimmer as that defensive coach.

Because they were "ruined" by inept coaching.

They sure as hell didn't reach their potential.


What about ellis? He looked pretty good his second year, then got hurt.

Then switched sides the year after his injury. Then switched back the year after that... when Zimmer became his coach. He never again looked as good as he did his 2nd year.

Roy Williams? Still a great player, but not as good as his rookie year.

Ware? Still hasn't developed any kind of an inside pass rush move.


The list of players that haven't reached their potential under Zimmer is long.


But it must be ALL those players, right? The coach has had no impact on their lack of development?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

He's afraid he'll get something worse.

Tell me, how long did he stick with Bledsoe before replacing him? Was he stupid for keeping him in as long as he did?

I don't think anyone has a complaint with Parcells sticking with Bledsoe last year.

This year? Yeah I think he went at least a couple games too long.

But how long has Zimmer and Parcells been here together? 4 years?

I think even a total ****** like Parcells would "figure it out" after a while don't you?

And to say "He's afraid he'll get something worse"... Is just something out of a SNL skit. I think you can come up with something better Rack.

Those guys never had a chance with Zimmer as that defensive coach.

They must have been cursed at birth.

They sure as hell didn't reach their potential.

To reach potential you need to have some to begin with.

What about ellis? He looked pretty good his second year, then got hurt.

Then switched sides the year after his injury. Then switched back the year after that... when Zimmer became his coach. He never again looked as good as he did his 2nd year.

I think Ellis has had a good career. I certainly wouldn't say he was at his best during his second year.

Roy Williams? Still a great player, but not as good as his rookie year.

I don't know if that's true either.

Ware? Still hasn't developed any kind of an inside pass rush move.

That's all the coaches fault? You can only "teach" so much Rack. At some point the player needs to be responsible.

The list of players that haven't reached their potential under Zimmer is long.

I think every team has a similar list.

But it must be ALL those players, right? The coach has had no impact on their lack of development?

I never said that. But I see some terrific defensive coordinators have some pretty bad defensive numbers because they don't have the talent... guys like Jim Johnson and Greg Williams.

And what about terrific d-coordinators that have become head coaches and still can't field a good defense like Tony Dungy and Marvin Lewis?

Coaching isn't an end-all Rack.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Hey listen Big Bill only confirmed what's I've been saying all year long about those 3-4 ends Canty and Spears, they are NOT playing up to expectations simple as that. Parcells is the master of the 3-4 defense practically so I would trust he knows what's the problem....

 

[Rack]

I don't think anyone has a complaint with Parcells sticking with Bledsoe last year.

This year? Yeah I think he went at least a couple games too long.

So he stuck with the QB too long, but it's not possible that he's stuck with the DCoord too long?

But how long has Zimmer and Parcells been here together? 4 years?

4 years too long.

I think even a total ****** like Parcells would "figure it out" after a while don't you?

So parcells is a "total ******" but he should know if Zimmer is garbage or not?

You sure like contradicting yourself.

And to say "He's afraid he'll get something worse"... Is just something out of a SNL skit. I think you can come up with something better Rack.

Why change Zimmer for an unknown? I'm sure if one of his old defensive coaches became available he'd of hired him.

To reach potential you need to have some to begin with.

Ekuban was never anything special, but he's done better since he's left Dallas.

Hell, his first year away from Dallas he had a career high in sacks. And he wasn't even a starter.

I think Ellis has had a good career. I certainly wouldn't say he was at his best during his second year.

1. I didn't say he had a bad career. Just that he didn't reach his potential.

2. His 2nd year was his best year. 6.5 sacks in 12 games, plus two 90+ yard defensie TDs. EASILY his best season.

That's all the coaches fault? You can only "teach" so much Rack. At some point the player needs to be responsible.

And sometimes you can "over" teach. Zimmer is way too anal about the perfection is the degrees a players foot is when he lines up, and what hand he has on the ground, how he reacts to the ball, etc...

Tell me, since Zimmer has been our DCoord, how well have our DBs been at turning around and playing the freakin' football?

How well has our pass rush been?

He overcoaches, and it takes away from the players' instincts. He does a horrible job of taking advantage of players' strengths.

I think every team has a similar list.

Yeah, and most of them have been bad and have changed coaches a few times.

And what about terrific d-coordinators that have become head coaches and still can't field a good defense like Tony Dungy and Marvin Lewis?

As far as Dungy goes, that team has most of their money in offensive players. I didn't say a Good DCoord will ALWAYS have a good defense and good players. You have to have a good player and a good coach to DEVELOP that player.

Coaching isn't an end-all Rack.

I didn't say it was.


But players won't develop to their full potential if they don't have the coaches with the know-how to DEVELOP their talent.

Hey listen Big Bill only confirmed what's I've been saying all year long about those 3-4 ends Canty and Spears, they are NOT playing up to expectations simple as that.

Yet another couple of defensive players "not playing as well as expected".

 

[MONT17]

BP said Canty/Spears are having problems converting into the pass rush on first down.... and v. the Saints it could be a major problem!!! What else can you get from that besides BP wants a PASS RUSH from the DE spots?


Some people will stick to their guns and call it what they may... but the Bottom line is BP is right and so are the people on this board who think canty and Spears are letting this team down! and should be more disruptive on First Down when teams throw the ball!!!


all this is Q v. Hutch but with the DE spot... So I guess it will take BP to bench one or both of these guys before it will go away!!!