Twitter: CBs: Lowest/Highest Burn Percentages

[ConceptCoop]

Prove it. Most go on to other teams because, well, teams are insane and think corners make the difference.

That might explain why Darrelle Revis has been paid millions by multiple teams and now is considered a wash out.


Whoa. I love how the narrative changes depending on perspective.

So, Elliott has not elevated this offense to a new level, but Ramsey, with his burn rate, has some how propelled the woeful Jags D to a new level?

So Elliott has done nothing for the offensive production?

Are you really going to go there?

Perhaps you maybe just should not talk about things you don't know, like what makes a winning football team.

Last time I checked the Cowboys were on the upswing because of their first round pick.

The Jaguars. Well, there you go.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I prefer yards per pass attempt counting ALL of the attempts for which the DB was on the field. If a cornerback plays an entire game in man-to-man with the opponent throwing 40 passes but is targeted only once for a 9-yard catch, he almost certainly played at an elite level. But his "burn percentage" was 100 percent, and his YPA was 9.0, both of which are terrible. Never mind that he completely shut down the opponent and allowed 0.225 yards per opponent pass attempt, which is insanely good.

Thank you.

"Burn rate" is crappy stat.

Beyond what you already noted, it doesn't account for a CB getting burned but the QB air mailing the ball over his head or if the receiver gets seperation beating the corner but drops an easy ball. It simply tabulates the end result without context.

That said, I think Mo is playing the best ball of his career, but folks shouldn't cleave to this stat as a primary indicator of his play.

 

[Alexander]

I guess that means you have, well, nothing. Good to know.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Ramsey's achievement is getting into a Twitter war with Steve Smith. Otherwise, he certainly has not done much to improve the Jaguars' defense.

And the idea was between the two, who makes their team better. I guess it is convenient now to talk about shelf life.

Sad to say, CB longevity is not a lot better than RBs. Go back to 2013, 2012. How many of those DBs earned second contracts with their original teams? I don't get that concept that you draft for contract length. The salary cap basically makes this a game like college, four years and you are up unless they are a star.

Ramsey is playing very well for the Jags.

You're just hellbent on trying to draw a stark contrast between the two players (Elliott & Ramsey), as in "Elliott's awesome and everyone else sucks...therefore we did the right thing."

 

[Alexander]

Ramsey is playing very well for the Jags.

You're just hellbent on trying to draw a stark contrast between the two players (Elliott & Ramsey), as in "Elliott's awesome and everyone else sucks...therefore we did the right thing."

Not at all.

My whole argument at the time, and feel free to research, was that Elliott fit the best and frankly, we wouldn't have known what to do with Ramsey to begin with.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Not at all.

My whole argument at the time, and feel free to research, was that Elliott fit the best and frankly, we wouldn't have known what to do with Ramsey to begin with.

Yup. Playing him at CB is a waste.

 

[theebs]

Anyone know what is considered being burned? Pass plays more than 20yds?

I think gil sits in his lazy boy and watches games and goes damn that guy got burned.

and then makes the list accordingly.

 

[muck4doo]

newman? as in Terrence Newman? Geez, never thought that guy would still be playing but he seems to be getting better and better as he ages.

I thought he was finished after he got hurdled. He was just bad that season. Glad he turned it around, and has had a long career. He always seemed like a nice guy in all the video I have seen of him.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Not at all.

My whole argument at the time, and feel free to research, was that Elliott fit the best and frankly, we wouldn't have known what to do with Ramsey to begin with.

I'm guessing the Cowboys coaching staff would have been able to figure it out.

He took over starting CB in Jacksonville and is playing great. Taking him would have made sense on so many levels but one of them being he provides quality insurance and depth in the secondary going into next year when a few of our players come off the books.

If your argument is that RB provides more of an immediate impact, I don't think you'll find many that would argue against that. Elliott has been outstanding (and he needed to be) for the most part.

 

[Alexander]

Yup. Playing him at CB is a waste.

Ramsey was basically what we have with Jones. Wildcard and figure it out. How do you justify taking that early?

We picked a player that had one job. One role. And might end being a great one.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He has barely been targeted and has allowed only short catches. According to PFF's data --

Week 1 against Green Bay -- allowed 3 of 4 for 25 yards.

Week 2 against San Diego -- allowed 3 of 5 for 25 yards

Week 3 against Baltimore -- allowed 4 of 6 for 13 yards

Ramsey played all but three snaps in those games, against Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers and Joe Flacco, who threw 34, 25 and 40 passes, respectively. He allowed 10 catches on 15 attempts (a "burn rate" of 66.7%) -- but only 6.3 yards per catch, 4.2 yards per attempt, 21.0 yards per game and less than 0.65 yards per opponent pass attempt. All of those numbers are very, very good.

I don't have the Week 4 numbers from PFF, but Andrew Luck threw 42 passes for 234 yards (5.6 YPA).

@Alexander
@dogunwo

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Can anyone show me a single poster who said Ramsey would be better in the first year? I hope that I, and the rest of the Ramsey camp, end up being wrong. But our argument was never that Ramsey helps more day one. It was that RBs have a shorter, more injury prone shelf-life, and are easier to replace. Thus, are not worth the #4 overall pick.


And Ramsey is having a good rookie year. I have no idea what the hell that stat is, but it can't be too damning if Joe Hayden is on the list.

This argument is too nuanced for most. See below..

Ramsey's achievement is getting into a Twitter war with Steve Smith. Otherwise, he certainly has not done much to improve the Jaguars' defense.

And the idea was between the two, who makes their team better. I guess it is convenient now to talk about shelf life.

Sad to say, CB longevity is not a lot better than RBs. Go back to 2013, 2012. How many of those DBs earned second contracts with their original teams? I don't get that concept that you draft for contract length. The salary cap basically makes this a game like college, four years and you are up unless they are a star.

You are being purposefully obtuse right? Suggesting that CB longevity is not much longer than RB?

And it's not like we we are talking about prospects that were very much differentiated from each other. They were effectively the same rated prospect. If that's the case you tae the guy who plays longer and is harder to replace. I mean you literally can't argue against that.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Ramsey was basically what we have with Jones. Wildcard and figure it out. How do you justify taking that early?

We picked a player that had one job. One role. And might end being a great one.

Such a silly thing to say. I wanted Ramsey at Safety to form a multiple positionless safety tandem.

The team saw him as a CB.

Scouts said he had all-pro potential at both positions.

Using his versatility in a violent game against him is among the more stupid Ramsey hot takes.

 

[stilltheguru88]

This argument is too nuanced for most. See below..



You are being purposefully obtuse right? Suggesting that CB longevity is not much longer than RB?

And it's not like we we are talking about prospects that were very much differentiated from each other. They were effectively the same rated prospect. If that's the case you tae the guy who plays longer and is harder to replace. I mean you literally can't argue against that.

Who made up that rule? There are no exceptions? Everything isn't black and white.zeke was the better option, Ramsey would've been a nice second choice.

 

[Alexander]

And it's not like we we are talking about prospects that were very much differentiated from each other. They were effectively the same rated prospect. If that's the case you tae the guy who plays longer and is harder to replace. I mean you literally can't argue against that.

If players are disposable within four years, who cares?

And Ramsey is some irreplaceable corner?

Why don't teams just take them in every draft in the first round and be done with it.

What people like you didn't do was look at the cost analysis with the players.

Short window, take the talent. Take the easy meat. Use it.

Elliott is a special talent.

I think that has been proven. Even if it lasts for a few years, you get top shelf production from your top ten pick versus what?

What is Ramsey? You are going to tell me he is Deion reincarnate? Revis? He might be Newman if he is lucky.

 

[Alexander]

Such a silly thing to say. I wanted Ramsey at Safety to form a multiple positionless safety tandem.

The team saw him as a CB.

Scouts said he had all-pro potential at both positions.

Using his versatility in a violent game against him is among the more stupid Ramsey hot takes.

LOL

"Multiple positionless safety" attack.

Good luck with that, Sparky.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

LOL

"Multiple positionless safety" attack.

Good luck with that, Sparky.

This is a passing league. And nobody has ever questioned the physicality of Jones or Ramsey. The Barry Chruch's of the world are fading away.

But way to deflect from the absurdity of your argument that Ramsey's versatility is a negative thing with name calling and nothing else. That is...not smart.

 

[Alexander]

This is a passing league. And nobody has ever questioned the physicality of Jones or Ramsey. The Barry Chruch's of the world are fading away.

But way to deflect from the absurdity of your argument that Ramsey's versatility is a negative thing with name calling and nothing else. That is...not smart.

So please, in very technical terms, explain your revolutionary "multiple positionless safety" theory.

Would just love to hear it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

If players are disposable within four years, who cares?

And Ramsey is some irreplaceable corner?

Why don't teams just take them in every draft in the first round and be done with it.

What people like you didn't do was look at the cost analysis with the players.

Short window, take the talent. Take the easy meat. Use it.

Elliott is a special talent.

I think that has been proven. Even if it lasts for a few years, you get top shelf production from your top ten pick versus what?

What is Ramsey? You are going to tell me he is Deion reincarnate? Revis? He might be Newman if he is lucky.

Well this is silly. Oh Zeke is disposable after 4 years? So you think at 25 the Cowboys are going to walk away from a young special talent that they used the 4th round pick on and paid 25M dollars? That is really a thought that you had in your brain?

And I said CBs are harder to replace than RBs. That's categorically true. And it's obvious based on what they get paid in free agency.

And it's funny you said "people like me" don't do the cost analysis of players. Literally the crux of the argument is a cost benefit analysis. And oh...btw...Ramsey and Zeke were considered both as elite special talents. Continuing to argue that going Zeke over Ramsey was taking talent over...ermm...not taking talent....is again another distraction.

You should really go back into the think tank and have beter lines of questioning if you're going to needle the "Greatly preferred Ramsey" camp. Right now your defense is juvenile, short-sighted, ill thought out and badly researched.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I prefer yards per pass attempt counting ALL of the attempts for which the DB was on the field. If a cornerback plays an entire game in man-to-man with the opponent throwing 40 passes but is targeted only once for a 9-yard catch, he almost certainly played at an elite level. But his "burn percentage" was 100 percent, and his YPA was 9.0, both of which are terrible. Never mind that he completely shut down the opponent and allowed 0.225 yards per opponent pass attempt, which is insanely good.

I remeber FO used to have amazing metrics for CBs and WRs. They had them colored by quality and gave metrics of how they produced against say a Red WR (top?) VS a yellow (average). And the same with WRs. You really got to see who was playing well against quality competition