Cedrick Wilson looked good

xwalker

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I do to but this idiot coaching staff has a woody for Noah because he’s a decent blocker

I like jonvay ability to run routes he’s crisp and he gets open but his stone hands may be his undoing

Anybody that does not understand why Noah Brown is a interesting player to the coaches, is someone that does not study the game footage.

That does not mean that Brown should definitely make the 53, but anybody that studies game footage understands why Brown is a consideration for a roster spot.
 

DasSchnitzel

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Anybody that does not understand why Noah Brown is a interesting player to the coaches, is someone that does not study the game footage.

That does not mean that Brown should definitely make the 53, but anybody that studies game footage understands why Brown is a consideration for a roster spot.

You're not describing anything interesting though. So you've noticed some 4-3 teams switch to nickel when he comes in. Ok. Why should I be surprised that another receiving option induces a switch to nickel? Any receiving option could cause that if the defense trusts a nickelback more than their 3rd LB.

Noah Brown had 5 catches last year and 4 the year before that. It's kind of unimaginative to find a 5 catch guy with above average blocking skills to be an interesting option.

I also highly doubt that every 4-3 team switches to nickel every time Brown plays, and then you havent addressed 3-4 teams.
 

buybuydandavis

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Notice that there a 2 LBs (Nickel Defense).

The Cowboys are in 11 personnel (3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB).

The TE (Schultz) blocks the LDE.

If they replace Brown with a 2nd TE, then the defense will go to base with 3 LBs.

Even if the 2nd LB makes the same block that Brown made, now there is a 3rd LB which means a stronger run defense.

When teams realize that Brown is a teeny tiny blocking TE, they'll keep in 3LBs as a matter of course.
 

starfan1

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Cooper, Gallup, Cobb, Austin, Wilson, Johnson is the receivers I would take to the 53. Guyton didn't flash enough in the first preseason game. So at this time I don't have him on the 53 but most likely a practice squad guy. Austin might get hurt again and that would allow us to bring Guyton up.
Ya the only reason I list guyton is he’s kind of a pet cat for me. I work at UNT
 

Irvin88_4life

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Ya the only reason I list guyton is he’s kind of a pet cat for me. I work at UNT
I like Guyton too and would rather go with him over Austin. Austin is only making like 1.4 million this season or something so not like we can't let him go. Others would say too many young guys with no experience behind Cooper, Gallup and Cobb but I'm ok with that. Wilson can contribute right now in the slot if one of the 3 went out and can possibly work on the outside if needed.

Hopefully Guyton gets some more chances next week. Reggie Lewis is another guy that is doing well as is Devin Smith.
 

xwalker

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You're not describing anything interesting though. So you've noticed some 4-3 teams switch to nickel when he comes in. Ok. Why should I be surprised that another receiving option induces a switch to nickel? Any receiving option could cause that if the defense trusts a nickelback more than their 3rd LB.

Noah Brown had 5 catches last year and 4 the year before that. It's kind of unimaginative to find a 5 catch guy with above average blocking skills to be an interesting option.

I also highly doubt that every 4-3 team switches to nickel every time Brown plays, and then you havent addressed 3-4 teams.

Nickel is the standard defense against 11 personnel (3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB).

Base is the standard against 21 personnel (2 WRs, 2 TEs, 1 RB).

In 2018 when Brown was in the game, defenses stayed in the expected formation against 11 personnel which is Nickel.

In 2018 when the Cowboys had TEs Jarwin and Schultz in the game defenses primarily stayed in base.

Brown is a straight up better blocker than Jarwin.

As long as defenses stay in Nickel against Brown, it's a match-up win for the Cowboys.

Brown will have to show something as a receiver or at some point defenses will start treating him as a 2nd TE on the field and play base but up to this point defenses have stayed in Nickel.

The Rams took blocking by their WRs to another level. They made it an integral part of their blocking scheme instead of the common just get in the way type of blocking by WRs that is almost an after-thought for most offenses.

I think Kellen Moore wants to implements some similar concepts. It actually appears that Boise St. going back to Moore's time as the QB were doing some things that.we didn't see in the NFL until the Rams started using similar concepts.

Moore reportedly really wanted Tony Pollard in the draft. Pollard did a lot of open field blocking as either a 2nd RB or as WR. Memphis had RB Darrell Henderson as the lead RB (3rd round pick by the Rams).

It's an interesting connection with Henderson to the Rams and Pollard to the Cowboys. Henderson said the Rams showed by far the most interest in him prior to the draft. Pollard said the same with regards to the Cowboys.

Summary:
Noah Brown is an interesting match-up type player and finding match-up advantages appears to be a bigger and bigger focus for teams the past few years.

The ability of Pollard to be on the field with another RB with the option for him to block could decrease the Cowboys desire to keep Brown; although the actual blocking styles of Pollard & Brown are significantly different. Pollard does not overwhelm DBs as a blocker but he obviously offers much more of a threat while on the field in regards to receiving or being used in a "offensive weapon" role (reverses, jet sweeps, etc.).

Cedrick Wilson is also being used as a blocker and multi-usage type player in camp practices. Again he is not on the level of Brown as a blocker but is a better option as a receiver and to run reverses, etc..

As I said earlier in this thread, I don't know if Noah Brown should make the 53 but for anybody that studies extensive game footage it's obvious why the Cowboys value Brown more than most fans can understand.
 

quickccc

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If we keep Brown, at some point teams will realize Brown is just a teeny tiny blocking TE and match him up with a LB. Then he's just a liability on the field.

I really hope we move on from him.

what i don't get is Brown continues to be very under developed as a receiver, because he's missed an massive amount of time again for the 2nd year in a row,... and he's still a likely
53 roster WR as Stephen Jones has pointed out ? Why?

and what is going with his lingering issues with his wheels again ( hamstring in 2018, and now a scoped knee in 2019) but they like his size and physical traits so much that he's an automatic keeper
without even having to compete for a roster spot in 2019?
 

xwalker

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When teams realize that Brown is a teeny tiny blocking TE, they'll keep in 3LBs as a matter of course.
It has not happened yet...

He will need to show something as a receiver at some point.

The abilities of Pollard to block when playing WR or as 2nd RB on the field could impact the Cowboys desire to keep Brown.

Also they are using Cedrick Wilson to do some blocking beyond the basic WR blocking in camp.

Pollard obviously offers more in all non-blocking categories while on the field as compared to Brown.

Wilson is ahead of Brown as a receiver.

While Pollard/Wilson are not on the level of Brown as blockers, they could have more impact on pushing him off the roster than WRs like Jon'Vea Johnson.
 

Bullflop

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Cedrick Wilson has been my "pet cat" from the start. He's long been Sanjay Lal's as well, which says a lot about his upside. He does everything that a great receiver should do. Mr. Wilson's a lock to keep the offensive chains moving and that's always invaluable.

Cedrick is versatile, has great hands, very good speed and runs great routes. What's not to like? The hit he took vs. the Niners was awful. Here's hoping he recovers ASAP. . . anyway, let's not sleep on this guy -- this dude's a keeper and then some! ;)
 
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quickccc

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You and I both. Brown should took hgh and moved to tight end. He’s not an nfl receiver.

Noah actually has surprisingly nifty feet for a WR of his size. and I've seen DBs falling off of him trying to tackle-corral him as a WR ( ala vs Skins thanksgiving game) and he's suppose to
have good hands.
But when you're still a raw, underdeveloped WR, who again is missing valuable developmental time in camp, that's still going to continue to limit him as a target in the pass game.

- And it's different than the Rams WRs, as they are established pass catchers first ... and then their additional work as effective move-blockers comes in as a luxury.
when they are in the game, and whether set or in motion, opponents are thinking pass and more occupied with their receiving game.

No one is going to be preoccupied with Noah's receiving game. He hasn't prove a threat there yet- they are going to key on him as a blocker
and underneath target (primarily off the bootleg rollouts) when he gets into the game
 

quickccc

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Cedrick Wilson is well on his way to being the new Allen Hurns.
this is why i don't see the need to keep Hurns as the team was prepared to do, if the two parties could agree.
But the team had to see Wilson in action, in live game performances. some kind of glimpse, flashes and spots where he looked the part

Now they have a young upcomer who has the size, hands, route running and mentality to handle the slot role, which is huge considering Cobb's injury history.
Plus, C-Will can also handle punt return duties on special teams, which is another big luxury, and an area which Hurns would not have been able to help us.

i'm interested to see how C-Will handles on the outside flank and if he has the ability to threaten defenses deep and downfield per his college reputation.
 

quickccc

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I like Guyton too and would rather go with him over Austin. Austin is only making like 1.4 million this season or something so not like we can't let him go. Others would say too many young guys with no experience behind Cooper, Gallup and Cobb but I'm ok with that. Wilson can contribute right now in the slot if one of the 3 went out and can possibly work on the outside if needed.

Hopefully Guyton gets some more chances next week. Reggie Lewis is another guy that is doing well as is Devin Smith.

With Mike White continuing to have his QB issues, i don't think Reggie Davis and Guyton will get to showcase their skill set in these preseason games.
it would have to come when Cooper Rush is in the game.

From what i'm hearing the coaches still love Austin. (speed, open field run skills, return skills, game experience) and he's another like Pollard who could run those jet sweeps/bubble screens
and they think he has slot skills to offer as well. That could place pressure on Reggie Davis to make the squad as he is a similar kind of role player, skill set as Austin.
Davis would have to have a breakout preseason to change impressions and decisions.
But again if White is still in the game with Davis ....

when it comes down to entire body of work with both camp and preseason and what receiver can do in special teams, that's why think Devin Smith will be limited and cut from the team.
I've been hearing how Davis and Guyton and Johnson were impressive in camp, i had not heard near as much from Devin Smith.
 

Irvin88_4life

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With Mike White continuing to have his QB issues, i don't think Reggie Davis and Guyton will get to showcase their skill set in these preseason games.
it would have to come when Cooper Rush is in the game.

From what i'm hearing the coaches still love Austin. (speed, open field run skills, return skills, game experience) and he's another like Pollard who could run those jet sweeps/bubble screens
and they think he has slot skills to offer as well. That could place pressure on Reggie Davis to make the squad as he is a similar kind of role player, skill set as Austin.
Davis would have to have a breakout preseason to change impressions and decisions.
But again if White is still in the game with Davis ....

when it comes down to entire body of work with both camp and preseason and what receiver can do in special teams, that's why think Devin Smith will be limited and cut from the team.
I've been hearing how Davis and Guyton and Johnson were impressive in camp, i had not heard near as much from Devin Smith.
I can't disagree with anything you wrote. Austin has to stay healthy, he is explosive and a great weapon to have but his health is scary. Smith hasn't been talked about much in camp but other than Wilson and Johnson, Smith had a good preseason game.
 
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