Chargers and the 3rd pick

[Sydla]

Things I learned today.

1) Elliott is a transcendent player
2) 3rd round TBs can't pass protect apparently
3) Time of possession doesn't matter............. except when an Elliott fan is waxing on about how he'll keep the defense off the field
4) You need an elite TB behind an elite OL to have an elite rushing attack

 

[DandyDon1722]

Murray was a 3rd round pick. If you want to go get a RB at pick 76? I'm all for it. At 4? Insanity.

Except those picks are hit and miss and there lies the true insanity. Yes there are RB's throughout the league drafted later in rounds but those guys who do emerge are the result of good fortune, not necessarily good drafting, because as you correctly said, the position is so fungible.

I believe Zeke is the safest and most effective pick we can make - even over Ramsey who doesn't even have a true position.

 

[MRV52]

Ramsey gets picked by San Diego he's the best impact skill position in the entire 2016 process, Zeke isn't anywhere close to Gurley or Jalen ... and he eats ecstasy with his fruitloops.

No way, a corner is going to have the most impact on a team, it is Elliot by far and it isn't even close.

 

[erod]

Oh we can have "time of possession"?

And yet you are one of the ones saying that Elliott will have as much effect on the defense as any defensive player because with Elliott the Cowboys can work the clock and keep the defense off the field.

Seriously, do you even realize all the times you contradict yourself?

No, I didn't. Reading comprehension, sir.

When opponents are behind, they have to take chances. That leads to much better defensive performance. More sacks and turnovers for Dallas.

Elliott has a big impact on keeping the score in Dallas' favor by finishing runs, not fumbling, and protecting Romo.

 

[erod]

One of Murray's strengths was as a pass protector. He was a 3rd round pick.

Eventually. Not as a rookie. He was awful at it at OU.

 

[DandyDon1722]

Things I learned today.

1) Elliott is a transcendent player
2) 3rd round TBs can't pass protect apparently
3) Time of possession doesn't matter............. except when an Elliott fan is waxing on about how he'll keep the defense off the field
4) You need an elite TB behind an elite OL to have an elite rushing attack

Something else I bet you learn today - what it's like to have Ezekiel Elliott as a Dallas Cowboy.

Let the good time roll.

 

[revospeed]

Will Elliott make our running game elite? I think so.

Will Ramsey make our secondary elite? I don't think so, especially considering our defensive line and the fact that you don't know where to play him.

Elliott makes this team better for a long time.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Things I learned today.

1) Elliott is a transcendent player
2) 3rd round TBs can't pass protect apparently
3) Time of possession doesn't matter............. except when an Elliott fan is waxing on about how he'll keep the defense off the field
4) You need an elite TB behind an elite OL to have an elite rushing attack

Doing the lord's work.

 

[Sydla]

I understand what he is saying ........ but I am thinking what a great running back could do behind the line that made Murray look good.

And I think that would be more valuable than yet another first round defensive back ....... how many first round defensive backs do we need?

Jesus ........ drafting d-backs is not working ...... our D gets worse every year.

Drafting strategy based on past failures is fairly idiotic drafting IMO. Not taking a defensive back in the first round, even if you think he's a future stud, because you failed on Claiborne and Newman would be a pretty horrible draft strategy.

And I am one that subscribes to a theory of diminishing returns. Is Elliott likely better than say Dixon in the 3rd round? Probably. But how much better? Not enough to give up taking an elite defensive player IMO. How many games do the Cowboys win if Elliott runs for 2,000 yards compared to when Murray ran for 1,800? I would guess not many, especially if the defense is still porous.

It's the same logic that I use in thinking it would probably be a wasted pick if they took Tunsil at 4. Is he better than Free? Totally. But are you getting a much better OL over what is already considered the best OL in football by taking Tunsil (again at the expense of another position)? I am not so sure.

 

[ufcrules1]

Magically, we were able to do just this with a 3rd round TB that apparently according to erod was a bum.

So explain to me again why the only way we can do what you suggest is use the 4th pick on a TB?

Well Murray is no bum at all. Murray is a very good RB and we were lucky to get him in the 3rd round. Just because we did well with a rb we got in the 3rd round doesn't mean we can always find one in the 3rd or 4th round like that. If that were the case we could find Tom Brady in the 6th round of drafts, so why waste pick in the first round on a QB? I think Zeke will end up being a better RB than Murray. When you have an offensive line like we have, you don't say.. "Well anyone can run behind here" you say "How can we get the max benefit out of this line that we worked so hard to build?"

What is our offense really going to do with an average RB back there? Are teams going to have to stack the box to stop us? Are we going to have long sustaining drives that end up in points and eat up TOP and keep the defense fresh? Jalen isn't going to be able to do much to help us now with a pathetic d line. Zeke on the other hand could make us extremely tough to stop on offense and keep our defense fresh at the same time.

It comes down to do you want to win now or win later? Pick Zeke if you want to win now and pick Jalen if you want to win down the road.

 

[revospeed]

Eventually. Not as a rookie. He was awful at it at OU.

It's funny, when he first came to OU, he was a scat back. I remember OU fans telling me he'd be the next Reggie Bush. Fast forward to 2014 and it takes him two trips to haul ***.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Richard Sherman was a 5th round pick. You want to go get a corner in the 5th round? I'm all for it. At 4? Insanity.

You can say that about any position.

Sure if you don't know what you're talking about. Or the relative value of positions. Or never took an economics course on opportunity cost. Or never took a statistics course on probability.

 

[Sydla]

No, I didn't. Reading comprehension, sir.

When opponents are behind, they have to take chances. That leads to much better defensive performance. More sacks and turnovers for Dallas.

Elliott has a big impact on keeping the score in Dallas' favor by finishing runs, not fumbling, and protecting Romo.

Nope. You've very clearly said in the past that Elliott helps keep the defense off the field. That's time of possession.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I understand what he is saying ........ but I am thinking what a great running back could do behind the line that made Murray look good.

And I think that would be more valuable than yet another first round defensive back ....... how many first round defensive backs do we need?

Jesus ........ drafting d-backs is not working ...... our D gets worse every year.

This is some great mental gymnastics to get to the "draft Zeke" point of view.

Our defense is bad. So let's invest in offense.

 

[erod]

Nope. You've very clearly said in the past that Elliott helps keep the defense off the field. That's time of possession.

He does. Sometimes. Time of possession is a weird thing. Sometimes you dominate it and win, other times you dominate it and get killed. It's relative to each game.

I like points. That stat never fails.

 

[zrinkill]

Drafting strategy based on past failures is fairly idiotic drafting IMO.

Yet thats your excuse for not taking a running back high in the draft.

all I know is that 8 years ago we took Mike Jenkins who was gonna be the next Deion Sanders
4 years ago we took Morris Claiborne who was gonna be the next Deion Sanders.
last year we took Byron Jones who was gonna be the next Deion Sanders.

I want to take the chance to draft the next Emmitt Smith ...... lol

 

[erod]

This is some great mental gymnastics to get to the "draft Zeke" point of view.

Our defense is bad. So let's invest in offense.

If only they let Dallas pick in the other rounds....

 

[zrinkill]

This is some great mental gymnastics to get to the "draft Zeke" point of view.

Our defense is bad. So let's invest in offense.

No mental Gymnastics at all ....... I think we have the talent and our coaches do not know what to do with it on D.

This team has shown it knows how to run the ball with scrubs ....... I want to see what happens when we have a star there.

 

[revospeed]

Sure if you don't know what you're talking about. Or the relative value of positions. Or never took an economics course on opportunity cost. Or never took a statistics course on probability.

What did all those things say about drafting Morris Claiborne that high? Would you still go back and draft him that high because of all the courses on opportunity costs and probability? Don't draft a player who dominated in college and would make your team better because of courses on opportunity costs?

Post your resume, big shot, let's see if all those probability courses you took paid off.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

If only they let Dallas pick in the other rounds....

Irony.