Chargers and the 3rd pick

[Toruk_Makto]

The "most important position" is completely relative. It's a silly notion.

Quarterback wasn't the most important position for Baltimore when Dilfer won a Super Bowl. It obviously wasn't in Denver last year when Peyton was awful. Receiver wasn't the most important position when Jerry Rice was there. Running back wasn't the most important position for New England, and corner wasn't the most important position for Green Bay.

Elliott looks like he could be a transcendent player behind this young line for the next 8-10 years. Ramsey looks like a nice piece of a good defense in three years.

Why quibble with that? Just take Elliott.

Whenever you trot out a Trent Dilfer....or a Peyton in 2015...you're using the exceptions that prove the rule. Thanks for playing.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

In 2014, Dallas held the ball 32 minutes a game. 3rd in the league.

In 2015, Dallas held the ball 31 minutes a game. 10th in the league. And did so with no QB and no threat at WR.

These are what we call facts.

 

[ufcrules1]

I don't disagree about the defense, but that will take 3 drafts to fix. Right when Romo retires.

Elliott can do more to help your defense right now than any defensive player in the draft.

Freaking nailed it. No player can help us win more now than Zeke period. Good luck stopping that guy behind our Oline. He would even help Romo get one on one matchups on the outside and kill it with play action pass etc.

 

[erod]

In 2014, Dallas held the ball 32 minutes a game. 3rd in the league.

In 2015, Dallas held the ball 31 minutes a game. 10th in the league. And did so with no QB and no threat at WR.

What was the score?

Teams took no chances against Dallas last year. Didn't have to. Didn't turn it over. Didn't take sacks.

In 2014, teams were behind Dallas. They had to throw and take risks. They paid for it.

It's not about a silly time of possession. If you score in one play, you don't get much TOP, but you get seven points. I hate that stat.

 

[ufcrules1]

Not with that defense they wouldn't have.

Again, you must have passed out in the GB game. The defense couldn't stop Rodgers and the GB offense in the 2nd half.

No team could stock Rodgers that year. GB averaged like 40+ points per game. Our offense wasn't anything special in the GB game and made mistakes too. It was a team loss.. not all on defense.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Kam Chancellor was drafted in the 5th, as was Richard Sherman, as was Josh Norman. You can find extremely talented guys in the later rounds for nearly all positions.

In regards to runningback, if Ramsey isn't on board, I definitely consider Elliott at 4. Not drafting this or that position at such and such is why a lot of highly talented guys end up slipping to the later picks and the top picks end up being unspectacular. If I was a team that wasn't built like the cowboys, then I probably wouldn't get Elliott, but we have arguably the best O-line in the league and we're built for a strong running attack. Most teams aren't built with the running game as the emphasis, but here, a strong running game solves the majority of our red zone problems and significantly helps our defense by keeping them off of the field. It also helps keep Romo upright if Elliott is as great of a blocker as he's touted and it helps out the rest of the offense since opposing defenses have to worry about a guy who can hit a homerun in the run game.

The elite secondary players are taken early. Sure some slip through the cracks. The elite rb prospects routinely fall to the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Why in the world then would you not wait to grab a great rb prospect later when it is generally more prevalent?

This isn't complicated.

 

[Sydla]

And that 3rd round back has no clue how to pass protect, and Romo gets plowed in Week 2, and we are drafting 4th again next year.

Running the ball is only 50 percent of the job.

Oh so 3rd round backs can't pass protect nor can they be taught to pass protect?

Geezus.

 

[kevm3]

In 2014, Dallas held the ball 32 minutes a game. 3rd in the league.

In 2015, Dallas held the ball 31 minutes a game. 10th in the league. And did so with no QB and no threat at WR.

Red zone performance and 3rd down conversions significantly suffered.

 

[Sydla]

Freaking nailed it. No player can help us win more now than Zeke period. Good luck stopping that guy behind our Oline. He would even help Romo get one on one matchups on the outside and kill it with play action pass etc.

Magically, we were able to do just this with a 3rd round TB that apparently according to erod was a bum.

So explain to me again why the only way we can do what you suggest is use the 4th pick on a TB?

 

[erod]

These are what we call facts.

I run two offensive plays and score on an 80-yard touchdown pass and an 80-yard run, then I return a punt for a TD.

My time of possession is about 45 seconds, but I'm winning 21-0.

You can have your time of possession.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

In 2014, the Cowboys created turnovers by the bushels. Why?

Because the Cowboys were always ahead. They always had the ball. Opponents HAD to throw and take chances, and it cost them.

With Romo and an elite running game, that can be the case again right now. Especially with a back that can finish runs and doesn't fumble.

Yup. And we were always ahead because we had a healthy Romo and Dez. Not because we had the best pure rushing attack in the NFL.

Our offense is terrible last year with Zeke and no Romo and Dez.

 

[Sydla]

Red zone performance and 3rd down conversions significantly suffered.

Absolutely.

But not because we didn't have Zeke Elliott at TB.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I run two offensive plays and score on an 80-yard touchdown pass and an 80-yard run, then I return a punt for a TD.

My time of possession is about 45 seconds, but I'm winning 21-0.

You can have your time of possession.

Well it's your argument that having the running game keeps the defense fresh.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Guys i'm out. Taking a RB at 4 would be the definition of insanity. If we do enjoy your shiny toys guys.

 

[Direwolf63]

And that 3rd round back has no clue how to pass protect, and Romo gets plowed in Week 2, and we are drafting 4th again next year.

Running the ball is only 50 percent of the job.

One of Murray's strengths was as a pass protector. He was a 3rd round pick.

 

[revospeed]

Murray was a 3rd round pick. If you want to go get a RB at pick 76? I'm all for it. At 4? Insanity.

Richard Sherman was a 5th round pick. You want to go get a corner in the 5th round? I'm all for it. At 4? Insanity.

You can say that about any position.

 

[erod]

Yup. And we were always ahead because we had a healthy Romo and Dez. Not because we had the best pure rushing attack in the NFL.

Our offense is terrible last year with Zeke and no Romo and Dez.

All true.

But I want a guy to finish runs so Romo can take fewer hits in the pocket. Elliott is just a ramped-up version of Murray.

 

[Sydla]

I run two offensive plays and score on an 80-yard touchdown pass and an 80-yard run, then I return a punt for a TD.

My time of possession is about 45 seconds, but I'm winning 21-0.

You can have your time of possession.

Oh we can have "time of possession"?

And yet you are one of the ones saying that Elliott will have as much effect on the defense as any defensive player because with Elliott the Cowboys can work the clock and keep the defense off the field.

Seriously, do you even realize all the times you contradict yourself?

 

[Sydla]

One of Murray's strengths was as a pass protector. He was a 3rd round pick.

Don't waste your time. erod's rolling.

 

[erod]

Yup. And we were always ahead because we had a healthy Romo and Dez. Not because we had the best pure rushing attack in the NFL.

Our offense is terrible last year with Zeke and no Romo and Dez.

All true.

But I want a guy to finish runs so Romo can take fewer hits in the pocket. Elliott is just a ramped-up version of Murray.

Well it's your argument that having the running game keeps the defense fresh.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Guys i'm out. Taking a RB at 4 would be the definition of insanity. If we do enjoy your shiny toys guys.

My argument is that it keeps the opponent in an uncomfortable position of having to play catch up. That leads to more sacks, more turnovers, and a better defense.

 

[zrinkill]

But that's just Toruk's point.

We had the best running attack in the NFL in 2014 and did so because we invested in the OL and turned a run of the mill 3rd rounder into the NFL's leading rusher. And yet despite that, the team came up short largely because their defense just wasn't good enough.

So when Toruk is saying what he's saying, he's saying it with the belief that in order to get over the hump, they need to build the defense, not invest even more into a running game that can probably be elite again given our OL and a 3rd round TB.

I understand what he is saying ........ but I am thinking what a great running back could do behind the line that made Murray look good.

And I think that would be more valuable than yet another first round defensive back ....... how many first round defensive backs do we need?

Jesus ........ drafting d-backs is not working ...... our D gets worse every year.