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Chip Kelly versus Jason Garrett

Discussion in 'Overtime Zone' started by erod, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Idgit

    Idgit Fattening up Moderator

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    This is true, and I'm hoping you're right that he becomes a less influential figure head and is more of a public mascot as he gets a bit older.
     
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  2. Idgit

    Idgit Fattening up Moderator

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    Probably the part of the quote you cut off. The part that made it clear that the development quotes were in regards to developing a Super Bowl winning coach and not just one capable of holding the job:

    Last time I checked, neither Kelly nor Garrett had won the big one, yet.

    As I said earlier, I like Kelly a lot. And I like Jim Harbaugh a lot, as well. Both of those guys have advance their teams farther than Garrett has, and they both did it quicker. But I don't buy the argument that all teams are equal or that an NFL franchise can be readily turned around in a season or two. It can take more than that. You have to look at the job the guys do under the circumstance they're in, and you have to understand that those situations differ so much that you can't measure the job on short term wins and losses. I've said it several times before, but John Wooden has said that his best job coaching he did for a team with a losing record.

    All in all, I think I'd have to say that what Kelly's done I find more impressive than what Jason's done. Mostly because I think he's done it with a snack-pack of below-average QBs and on the strength of his system. But then he's also had a lot of time to work out some of those kinks at the collegiate level, so that's probably too be expected. I like where Dallas is right now, long term, better than where the Eagles are. I think the Eagles are doing a lot with smoke and mirrors and have some way to go yet in terms of personnel. And managing and developing personnel at the NFL level is the hardest part of building a successful organization long-term.
     
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  3. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye.

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    I have finally made an appearance in this thread, and that's all I have to do to demonstrate complete ownage and mastery of it. Bow at my feet.
     
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  4. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    And that is your opinion again those who have worked for him disagree. I trust inside voiced more so than message board posters, call me crazy
     
  5. rcaldw

    rcaldw Well-Known Member

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    This is spot on. I really am amazed at the blindness and stubbornness from some around here. This discussion makes sense at 3-7, but 7-3? This discussion makes sense with back to back losing seasons, but wait, the team has been rebuilt WITHOUT a losing season.

    There is a word for such debates..... stupid.
     
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  6. atlantacowboy

    atlantacowboy Well-Known Member

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    Some listen to what Jerry says, others watch what he actually does. I guess we know where you stand.
     
  7. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I stand with Parcells who worked for him and whose comments about perception people have are wrong. I would think he would know a lot more than media spin and fan perceptions. Are there things Jerry has said that I disagree with sure? Has Dallas made trades I have disagreed with? Yep. Ultimately success of failure has much to do with the people you hire and information they are providing. This can be said for 31 other teams because despite what many will say GM do not scout they have a scouting department who does this and the information they have goes back to the GM so that he can make decisions. Who you hire makes a hugh difference be in the NFL or any other business. Ultimately win or lose Jerry is responsible
     
  8. atlantacowboy

    atlantacowboy Well-Known Member

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    Jerry wasn't in the locker room or on TV when Parcels was coaching. Who doesn't know that??

    Jerry does not like coaches like parcels and johnson and he has said so. Thats why he hires guys like Switzer, Gailey, Campo, Wade, and garret. He likes coaches he can walk over and who don't mind him in the locker room and being the team spokesman . This is not something new. I am incredulous that you don't know this when its pretty much common knowledge.

    The GM difference in Dallas is that GM also owns the team and hires everyone. There really hasn't been a parallel since Al Davis died.
     
  9. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    BS Jerry was still active when BP wanted Spears ahead of Ware it was Ireland who sold Jerry on taking Ware, later in rd 1 we got Spears. Jerry has always gone to the locker room since he bought the team and he went down to the sidelines from the get go. Hell he goes to the sideline less often now days than he did in the beginning and yet now days I see many Owners and GM go to the sidelines. As for Garrett being a puppet it was Garrett who took playcalling away from Callahan and it was Garrett who brought in Linehan whom he had worked with before and trusted to run the offense.
     
  10. erod

    erod Well-Known Member

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    He inherited a 1-7 squad with a long list of starters in steep decline.
     
  11. rcaldw

    rcaldw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think what he (Kelly) has done is more impressive at all. The old run-n-shoot proved something years ago. Short term turnarounds are easier with novel systems. Long term success has to be more substantive. What Jason has done is with an eye to long term, sustainable, success. Over time I am confident that it will become clearer and clearer that Cowboys fans have been blessed by Jerry Jones choice of Jason Garrett.
     
  12. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    one thing for sure Philly under chip Kelly sucks when it comes to goal line offense. You would think with the RB they have they would be much better inside the 5 but they are not
     
  13. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member

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    This thread probably has more posts than the total yards we allowed in Philly :lmao:
     
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  14. rcaldw

    rcaldw Well-Known Member

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    And yet when we are 7-3 the only evidence that people keep TRYING to produce to discredit Garrett are quotes, taken out of context, from Jerry. Its a weird world.
     
  15. Dave_in-NC

    Dave_in-NC Well-Known Member

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    Jerry said it himself he was walking on egg shells when Parcells was here. Now with Jerry's 40yo brain he might have been dreaming it.
     
  16. erod

    erod Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for the day Garrett is extended. Half the Cowboy fanbase will jump from the tallest building. What a great day that will be.

    Somehow, Jerry has to get Garrett, Marinelli, and Linehan inked at the same time. I'm pretty sure Callahan wants out unfortunately. Marinelli may jump, too, so Jerry needs to promise him all his attention in free agency and the draft.
     
  17. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Yet him and Parcells are still close and Jerry still talks with him and gets his views on issues
     
  18. bkeavs

    bkeavs Well-Known Member

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    The only issue I have with this reasoning is that it has taken so long for this to happen that we will be looking for a top level QB in the near future. We essentially wasted the prime of Romo's career
     
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  19. BigStar

    BigStar Stop chasing

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    A team that also made the playoffs and won a game the year before under Wade. That 1-7 start had a lot to do with JG (remember the flare pass before the half against WAS?) just to name one of the gaffes that came to mind immediately. But that was what it was. I was excited about JG at the time. The following season JG had a franchise QB (top 10 @ least) and the best pass rusher in the NFL, to go along with an all pro TE. I'm not saying the talent was plentiful, but it was more than the rebuild jobs displayed in SF and SEA. No one rebuilds with a franchise QB and the top pass rusher in football; so the shtick about "rebuilding" while maintaining 8-8 becomes too far fetched. PHI/SEA/SF didn't have franchise QBs, and those coaches took their teams to the playoffs (SB). We are continuously told that JG just needs more time; but this standard has been outdone by Harbaugh, Carrol, Kelly, Arians ,etc.

    The D was terrible last season, injuries before that, before that the OL, etc. Now in year 4 of the regime, a new OC has been brought in and is running the offense completely different than JG had during his tenure as HC/OC and has greatly contributed to the 7-3 start by mainly shortening the game with Murray. We are supposed to have faith that JG had a plan for this direction; though he never displayed any of these behaviors before? He didn't orchestrate this OL (though grateful) because if he was serious about rebuilding the OL, he wouldn't have attempted it over a four year span using only first round picks. The narrative is being written after the fact and the "aren't you glad we stuck with him" mantra being pushed is usually what this relates to. All that being said, I have acknowledged that if JG wins a playoff game he is due an extension. I still feel JG is painfully bland in his vision/scheme, and his influence wouldn't be lost on this team.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
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  20. Idgit

    Idgit Fattening up Moderator

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    I'm obviously a big fan of Garretts, so we're in perfect agreement there.

    I was watching to see if the Eagles back-slid this year, because I agree that it looked like a distinct possibility. I especially thought it was possible that Foles would return to earth, which he obviously did. But they keep winning. It's been 26 games now, and I'm not sure you can call it a fad. Chip Kelly does a lot of novel and innovative things to gain small advantages wherever he can. And he's also new to the league and still sorting out where those advantages can be found. He also doesn't really have his QB in place yet. We'll see what happens over time, but I think it's looking more likely that he'll get better as he figures the league out and not worse as we figure him out. As I said, though, I do like where Dallas is relative to the rest of the NFCE. A lot. Assuming, of course, we're able to sort out a long term solution at the QB position.
     
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