Church disrespect

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
with a pass rush, we'll soon see how good our backfield looks..........

They will improve, but it will not be instantaneous. There is still some real development that has to come from Lawrence and Gregory. And we need to probably wrap Crawford up in bubble wrap until the regular season since we have nothing at defensive tackle.
 

Bowdown27

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,448
Reaction score
7,696
I love Barry church. BUT I think he plays out of position. He's more of an in the box safety type like john lynch. If Byron jones moves to safety I think it will do wonders for Wilcox and Church.
 

wileedog

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,356
Reaction score
2,393
That's BS, and you know it. Rod has been running a lot of Cover 3 and Cover 1, which puts Church in the box. He is as solid as solid gets. He isn't flashy, but he does his job and cleans up. You rarely see him out of position, and you rarely see him give up a play. He is the quintessential working man. He goes to work, does his job, and goes home. Highly underrated, IMO.

I was being largely facetious, but IMO Church is Keith "Killa" Davis 2.0. A good tackler who cleans up what he gets too, but not an above average safety by any stretch.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
People would really rather keep Church over Wilcox? Church is a SS who gets to play SS and is an average performer.

Wilcox is SS who is forced to play FS and is an average performer. If..... say Jones...was moved to FS I have little doubt that Wilcox would beat out Church at SS and be an above average performer for us.
 

perrykemp

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
9,274
That's BS, and you know it. Rod has been running a lot of Cover 3 and Cover 1, which puts Church in the box. He is as solid as solid gets. He isn't flashy, but he does his job and cleans up. You rarely see him out of position, and you rarely see him give up a play. He is the quintessential working man. He goes to work, does his job, and goes home. Highly underrated, IMO.

All true. He is above average against the run.

Just don't ask him to cover anybody.

Put it all together and you have an average safety.
 

perrykemp

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
9,274
What do you think the word "safety" means? When you have rookie 4th rounders starting, don't you think there will be some guys who slip through the cracks? I'm not saying he's an all pro, but I doubt there are 10 strong safeties better than him.

Here's the stats:

xgQBfy5.png

Charles Woodson is unbelievable. 50 years old. 113 tackles, 12 Passes Defensed, 4 Interceptions....
 

perrykemp

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
9,274
People would really rather keep Church over Wilcox? Church is a SS who gets to play SS and is an average performer.

Wilcox is SS who is forced to play FS and is an average performer. If..... say Jones...was moved to FS I have little doubt that Wilcox would beat out Church at SS and be an above average performer for us.

What have you seen from Wilcox that has you so excited Turok?

The best thing Wilcox has going for him is youth. He he still can get better. Church is as good as he will ever be.
 
Last edited:

Titleist

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
2,408
If we had a ball hawking FS we wouldn't be talking about Church at all.

Well, the majority of NFL teams could say the same thing. True ball hawk FS's are pretty rare nowadays. Didn't seem that way in the 70s-90s for some reason.
 

perrykemp

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
9,274
For the record I think Church is a perfectly acceptable SS. He is a hoover when it comes to tackling. If he gets his hands on a offensive player that player isn't going anywhere.

He isn't much of a pass defender, however, that wouldn't be a big deal if the team had at least an average FS, which they don't.

As someone mentioned above, when you are longing for the days of Gerald Sensabaugh, you know there are issues....
 

Aven8

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,125
Reaction score
45,973
Well, the majority of NFL teams could say the same thing. True ball hawk FS's are pretty rare nowadays. Didn't seem that way in the 70s-90s for some reason.

There weren't any TE'S at 6'5" running 4.5 40's with a 40" vertical back then either.
 

TrailBlazer

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,841
Reaction score
3,525
What a horrible sign it is when your safety is making that many tackles.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
What have you seen from Wilcox that has you so excited Turok?

The best thing Wilcox has going for him is youth. He he still can get better. Church is as good as he will ever be.

Youth. Athleticism. Willingness to stick his nose in there. Competitiveness (the man threw a haymaker at Dez!)

There is a lot to like if you squint and remember he's barely played the safety position.

Put him closer to the line. Shrink what he has to think about. And let him go play. Remember when we did that for Carter? And let him be a run and hit guy?
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,711
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
First of all don't get me wrong This is not intended to negate wilcox. Both are ss types not fs. Sensabaugh is a better fs than those 2 so far and that's bad. Not saying wilcox cant surpass him. I love the toughness of wilcox that church doesn't seem to show. Wilcox is always in a scrum. But we have church under 3 mil a year and people act like a random guy from walgreens can do his job.

2013 tackles - church 107 next closest carter with 73

2014 tackles - 87 church next closest jj with 69

that is a sick ss rotation now if we use jones at fs or cb will decide a lot. I'm actually good with these 2 at fs and ss this year. These 2 are solid safeties and especially church.

I like Church and Wilcox better than most fans; however, this post/thread would not cause me to like them if I was on the fence.

Tackle totals are not a great representation of the quality of Safety play in the modern pass-happy NFL.

Wilcox is better at FS than the majority of fans believe. On many many plays that appear in real-time to be his fault, it is actually the fault of surrounding players. The FS, especially in Marinelli's scheme, has to take angles based on what other players should be doing. If those other players free lance or don't play within the scheme, then it makes it appear that the FS took a bad angle. One of the culprits last season was Bruce Carter. The LBs in this scheme have defined requirements in terms of funneling players in a specific direction. The FS is coached to play within the scheme, but that can be disastrous if the players in front of him don't play within the scheme.
 

conner01

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,971
Reaction score
26,617
Church is a solid safety and Wilcox is a solid safety that still has some upside.

Good assessment
To some you are a super star or a bust but the majority of most teams are somewhere in the middle
Church is what he is, a solid player
Now some want a pro bowler at every position and that's never gonna happen and reality is you don't want that or you will be replacing them too often because they will get too expensive
Can church be upgraded? Possibly
Is upgrading him a big priority? No
We have other spots that we have lesser talent at that are more important to upgrade
 
Top