Church disrespect

[CATCH17]

What have you seen from Wilcox that has you so excited Turok?

The best thing Wilcox has going for him is youth. He he still can get better. Church is as good as he will ever be.

Wilcox made plays last year and he has very little experience playing safety.. Plus he's a hammer.

You don't draft a raw athletic talent like him who doesn't look like he is in over his head at all and just give up on him before we even get to his 3rd year.

JJ Wilcox can play and still has upside to get to another level of play. He'll be an above average NFL safety imo at some point.

 

[jnday]

I have nothing against Church except his lack of speed. There are too many players on this defense that play at the low end of the speed requirements for their positions. On the defensive side of the ball , I want very fast players with no exceptions. I think speed has held this defense back long enough. For example, the Mo pick. If a team is going to draft a CB with the 6th pick in the draft, at the very least he should have above average speed. Mo didn't. I expect fast DBs and fast LBs. I will admit that my thinking was influenced by the defense's that Jimmy fielded during the 90's, but that doesn't change the fact that speed matters. Church is just too slow IMO.

 

[CATCH17]

I have nothing against Church except his lack of speed. There are too many players on this defense that play at the low end of the speed requirements for their positions. On the defensive side of the ball , I want very fast players with no exceptions. I think speed has held this defense back long enough. For example, the Mo pick. If a team is going to draft a CB with the 6th pick in the draft, at the very least he should have above average speed. Mo didn't. I expect fast DBs and fast LBs. I will admit that my thinking was influenced by the defense's that Jimmy fielded during the 90's, but that doesn't change the fact that speed matters. Church is just too slow IMO.

I too would like a faster safety but Church's speed won't be the difference between us winning and losing.

I wish we had a Earl Thomas but it's hard to find guys like that.

Also, I don't want a super fast defense because the trade off is usually size.

You saw what we did to teams this past year like Indianapolis that are just small and fast. We steamrolled them.

 

[xwalker]

I have nothing against Church except his lack of speed. There are too many players on this defense that play at the low end of the speed requirements for their positions. On the defensive side of the ball , I want very fast players with no exceptions. I think speed has held this defense back long enough. For example, the Mo pick. If a team is going to draft a CB with the 6th pick in the draft, at the very least he should have above average speed. Mo didn't. I expect fast DBs and fast LBs. I will admit that my thinking was influenced by the defense's that Jimmy fielded during the 90's, but that doesn't change the fact that speed matters. Church is just too slow IMO.

I agree that Claiborne is not super fast to be the #6 overall pick. He ran a 4.43 which is not terrible, but with the 6th pick it would be preferable to get 4.38 guys like Patrick Peterson and Revis.

The Cowboys are more focused on finding "football players" over freak athletes. Bruce Carter was super fast, but didn't play up to that speed. Guys like Lee, McClain and Hitchens play faster than their timed speed.

Wilcox had an average forty but his 10 and agility times were better than average. He is heavier than most of the Safeties that ran faster. If speed was an issue for him, which I don't think it is, he could drop a couple of pounds and probably improve it. Church dropped weight a few years ago from his draft weight of 222 to about 212 and was visibly faster. I'm not sure what weight is he actually playing at now. The DC.com website roster is never accurate. Players often mention their weight in interviews and it never matches the DC.com listing.

Scandrick ran a 4.32.

Carr ran a 4.43 but does not look that fast.

Byron Jones ran a 4.43 and looks that fast in game footage.

The DL looks fast/quick now and probably quicker than average.

Corey White ran a 4.39 at his Pro Day. He is probably replacing Sterling Moore who ran a 4.54.

Summary: Church, Carr and some guys that played the 3rd CB spot are the areas where speed could be improved. Adding Byron Jones to the mix improves the speed in the secondary. My guess is that Church remains a starter and will be the only player on defense really has below average speed.

 

[xwalker]

I have nothing against Church except his lack of speed. There are too many players on this defense that play at the low end of the speed requirements for their positions. On the defensive side of the ball , I want very fast players with no exceptions. I think speed has held this defense back long enough. For example, the Mo pick. If a team is going to draft a CB with the 6th pick in the draft, at the very least he should have above average speed. Mo didn't. I expect fast DBs and fast LBs. I will admit that my thinking was influenced by the defense's that Jimmy fielded during the 90's, but that doesn't change the fact that speed matters. Church is just too slow IMO.

I agree that Claiborne is not super fast to be the #6 overall pick. He ran a 4.43 which is not terrible, but with the 6th pick it would be preferable to get 4.38 guys like Patrick Peterson and Revis.

The Cowboys are more focused on finding "football players" over freak athletes. Bruce Carter was super fast, but didn't play up to that speed. Guys like Lee, McClain and Hitchens play faster than their timed speed.

Wilcox had an average forty but his 10 and agility times were better than average. He is heavier than most of the Safeties that ran faster. If speed was an issue for him, which I don't think it is, he could drop a couple of pounds and probably improve it. Church dropped weight a few years ago from his draft weight of 222 to about 212 and was visibly faster. I'm not sure what weight is he actually playing at now. The DC.com website roster is never accurate. Players often mention their weight in interviews and it never matches the DC.com listing.

Scandrick ran a 4.32.

Carr ran a 4.43 but does not look that fast.

Byron Jones ran a 4.43 and looks that fast in game footage.

The DL looks fast/quick now and probably quicker than average.

Corey White ran a 4.39 at his Pro Day. He is probably replacing Sterling Moore who ran a 4.54.

Summary: Church, Carr and some guys that played the 3rd CB spot are the areas where speed could be improved. Adding Byron Jones to the mix improves the speed in the secondary. My guess is that Church remains a starter and will be the only player on defense really has below average speed.

 

[waving monkey]

He covers way better than wilcox.

talk to xwalker about that

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I agree but thats what I mean that he and wilcox are ss types. Church and oscan are the most solid players on d and people act like he shouldnt be in the nfl.

And yet the coaches kept Wilcox out there and sat Church in favor of guys like Spillman and Patmon in late season adjustments. He cannot do deep middle or half well and he has to come off the field for man.

Church cannot run well. He is a 4.6 guy that cannot handle being out in space and keep up with receivers downfield in man. The coaches took him off the field in certain nickel sets. I guess they 'disrespect' him too?

Oh and Marinelli in his draft time interviews said that they are going to call even more man this year. You do the math.

 

[xwalker]

Good assessment
To some you are a super star or a bust but the majority of most teams are somewhere in the middle
Church is what he is, a solid player
Now some want a pro bowler at every position and that's never gonna happen and reality is you don't want that or you will be replacing them too often because they will get too expensive
Can church be upgraded? Possibly
Is upgrading him a big priority? No
We have other spots that we have lesser talent at that are more important to upgrade

People probably forget about players like James Washington who was not a star player, but was "good enough" to be the starter in their 1992 Super Bowl season.

 

[Wood]

Church is average in almost every aspect. He is beneficiary of time-period he is playing in. Shortage of true free-safeties and the league attempt to diminish thumping SS.

 

[Wood]

People probably forget about players like James Washington who was not a star player, but was "good enough" to be the starter in their 1992 Super Bowl season.

James Washington value was that he was feared. I still remember the tripod incident.

 

[xwalker]

James Washington value was that he was feared. I still remember the tripod incident.

Refresh my memory...

 

[jnday]

I too would like a faster safety but Church's speed won't be the difference between us winning and losing.

I wish we had a Earl Thomas but it's hard to find guys like that.

Also, I don't want a super fast defense because the trade off is usually size.

You saw what we did to teams this past year like Indianapolis that are just small and fast. We steamrolled them.

Dallas's defense won't be facing Dallas's oline this year. The speed needs to come from the LBs, and DBs, with big athletic DL. Defensive speed kills an offense and it has been a weakness for years.

 

[big dog cowboy]

James Washington value was that he was feared. I still remember the tripod incident.

Good memory. I had forgotten all about that.

 

[xwalker]

He covers way better than wilcox.

talk to xwalker about that

I still remember the performance that Wilcox put on back at the 2013 Senior Bowl practices. He was terrific in 1-on-1 coverage drills against WRs. He was one of the best Safeties that I've seen in those drills. He was better than several CBs that were trying to cover the same WRs.

Wilcox is better than Church in man coverage and it's not really even close. Church his an overachiever and a good player to have on your team, but he is very limited in man coverage.

 

[Maxmadden]

If Church truly turns out to be the weak link on this defense then we are in pretty good shape.

 

[Nation]

Who are the great safeties in the 2015 NFL that they could be replaced with? Church and Wilcox are not All Pro but as we saw with Earl Thomas in the 2nd half of the Super Bowl, even an a Pro is useless without a great rush.

 

[CyberB0b]

I still remember the performance that Wilcox put on back at the 2013 Senior Bowl practices. He was terrific in 1-on-1 coverage drills against WRs. He was one of the best Safeties that I've seen in those drills. He was better than several CBs that were trying to cover the same WRs.

Wilcox is better than Church in man coverage and it's not really even close. Church his an overachiever and a good player to have on your team, but he is very limited in man coverage.

Good thing our safeties are rarely asked to play man coverage. I can't think of 10 safeties in the leauge that I would say are good in man coverage. At this point, it's Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, and then everyone else.

 

[CF74]

Well for what it's worth all our DB's seem to excel playing man vs zone. For one they don't have to think too much just play it up....

 

[xwalker]

Good thing our safeties are rarely asked to play man coverage. I can't think of 10 safeties in the leauge that I would say are good in man coverage. At this point, it's Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, and then everyone else.

Wilcox would be good in Man coverage but was rarely in that situation last season.

 

[Corso]

He is a lot more instinctual out there in comparison. Wilcox just looks like what he is, a running back trying hard to pretend he is a safety.

Sorry- Yes.
This team Truly needs a true Free Safety in the most Truest Way.

Hopefully one day this team shall have one- whether it be from Jones, or someone else...
This team does not have one as of this year, unless Jones is installed there AND he excels AND he takes a starting spot AND it's not at a CB position AND even if it is he excels...
Safety is a position of concern.