Clarity forming on who Dallas will pick at #4

[texbumthelife]

His 20 yard SS is average, but it's not bad. Faster than Marcus Trufant, Jonathan Joseph, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie (actually DRC was .01 faster), Aquib Talib, Joe Haden and Richard Sherman.

So saying he just has straight line speed is a bit of an exaggeration

I didn't say "he just has straight line speed." We were talking about coverage ability. I said I think he is great covering in a straight line. Otherwise, his coverage isn't all that impressive. Nothing about speed to it.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

He is a Darren Woodson type with cornerback skills type of player.

Ed Reed is the best safety of all time.

I don't see the Darren Woodson comparisons. Woodson was a college LB that moved to safety. Jimmy was smart enough to sit him on the bench and train with the corners and he became a quality cover guy that could hit like a linebacker.

Ramsey is a college corner (that had some time at safety). He's a much better overall athlete than Woodson was and would likely start right away. I wouldn't count on him laying the lumber and being a force against the run game like Woodson was, but he would be a superior cover guy that can tackle and has off-the-charts athleticism.

2 distinctly different players. I still want Lynch, but I would love to have Ramsey if we go that route.



YR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I didn't say "he just has straight line speed." We were talking about coverage ability. I said I think he is great covering in a straight line. Otherwise, his coverage isn't all that impressive. Nothing about speed to it.

then I'll just say, just like any rookie CB there will be good mixed with bad, I think we both agree on that, but I think long term he's a CB and I'd rather get used to covering WRs then TEs and backs.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't see the Darren Woodson comparisons. Woodson was a college LB that moved to safety. Jimmy was smart enough to sit him on the bench and train with the corners and he became a quality cover guy that could hit like a linebacker.

Ramsey is a college corner (that had some time at safety). He's a much better overall athlete than Woodson was and would likely start right away. I wouldn't count on him laying the lumber and being a force against the run game like Woodson was, but he would be a superior cover guy that can tackle and has off-the-charts athleticism.

2 distinctly different players. I still want Lynch, but I would love to have Ramsey if we go that route.



YR

I just think he could do the same things Woodson could do with the ability to play corner as well.

I don't doubt that Ramsey could play linebacker in passing situations.


He can be a nickelback, backer, in the box, out of the box safety, or a corner. He is a complete DB.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I still contend that if you fix your D line, you fix your secondary at the same time. If you fix your secondary.......it doesn't do anything to fix your D line. It just seems like a waste to me. A great D line can make an average secondary look great.

That's great if it's 2010 or 2005 or 1995. Look at the passing scatter charts around the league. Very heavy towards short throws out on the perimeter. QB's often get the ball off in less than 1.5 seconds. Tough for a pass rush to get there. Unless you have the secondary that can:

1. Play a mix of man and zone and play different zone coverages

2. Play press and off coverage

3. Can tackle

That helps not only prevent the WR's from getting open and getting space on those short passes, but it also prevents the opposing offense from gaining yards on those short completions.

The Cowboys secondary was pretty much the exact opposite of that last year.

We played almost extensively man or Cover-1 man. We played almost extensively press coverage and outside of Church and Byron, nobody else could tackle. And Church is more of a tackler in the running game than in the passing game.

That meant that opposing QB's could easily read our coverages and where to go with the ball and once the receiver caught it, they could break tackles and gain yards easily. If the opposing team's O-Line wasn't defending the pass rush...all they had to do was throw some pick plays and WR's screens and get easy yardage and protect their QB.

If you want to rush the passer in today's NFL, you need a quality secondary that can take away the underneath stuff and force the offense to throw deeper and give the pass rush something more along the lines of 2.3 seconds to get to the QB.







YR

 

[Rogerthat12]

Chargers could take Ramsey, they are said to be split on Ramsey and Tunsil.

They could trade down but it will probably take considerable draft currency for a team to move up!

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Too bad Ramsey is a Beast and Zeke is a Derper.

 

[cowboys2233]

I've heard this now from David Moore, Mike Fisher, Dane Brugler, and a couple of other local insiders.

Dallas' pick will be either Jalen Ramsey or Ezekiel Elliott. If they're both there, Dallas will take Ramsey. Joey Bosa is out of the running at 4.

Bu...bu...but...I just heard RANKINS is the pick! These guys will need some spankins if it's Rankins.

 

[Kaiser]

I just think he could do the same things Woodson could do with the ability to play corner as well.

I'm not 100% sold on Ramsey but would be happy if he was the pick. Woodson was a LB with the skills to play Safety, to the point he could take reps at CB if he had to. Ramsey is a CB with the skills to play Safety, to the point he could play WLB if he had to.

The team plugged Woodson in at SS and adjusted the defense to his skill set. They will do the same thing with Ramsey if he is the pick, the main difference is that Ramsey will be able to play all over the field and cover, play zone or blitz depending on the package.

 

[BlindFaith]

You need me to define ball hawk for you?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ball hawk
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ball-hawk
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ball hawk

The very definition of ball hawk is intercepting the ball.

Like I said, this doesn't mean Ramsey won't be a great player, but expecting him to suddenly become a ball hawk seems like a reach.

Who in the NFL is a ball hawk then? Only 5 players had more than 5 interceptions last year.

Josh Norman who is now the highest paid CB in the league had 4.
Aqib Talib had 3
Eric Berry 2
Richard Sherman 2

Or is there a cutoff number of interceptions to be called a ball hawk. If so, what is that number exactly? Or maybe you just dont consider the above listed players ball hawks because of their paltry interception counts?

So yes, please define ballhawk for me.

 

[gmoney112]

The team plugged Woodson in at SS and adjusted the defense to his skill set. They will do the same thing with Ramsey if he is the pick, the main difference is that Ramsey will be able to play all over the field and cover, play zone or blitz depending on the package.

Pretty much. The NFL game is becoming more and more about matchups and disguises, especially in coverage. You need guys with talent to be able to pull this off. That's why Wade was so successful in Denver. He had the guys back there to run anything from Cover 1 Robber to a Cover 4 package.

Ramsey is intelligent for a DB(24 wonderlic) with all the physical traits you like to see back there. Same with Byron, who scored a 33 on the Wonderlic, and who has impressed coaches with his ability to pick up play books in weeks.

DB's with that kind of intelligence and athleticism open up the play books on defense and can give you a a significant advantage

 

[KJJ]

I've heard this now from David Moore, Mike Fisher, Dane Brugler, and a couple of other local insiders.

Dallas' pick will be either Jalen Ramsey or Ezekiel Elliott. If they're both there, Dallas will take Ramsey. Joey Bosa is out of the running at 4.

That's the exact take I got from listening to Jerry and Garrett during their PC. They were both gushing over Ramsey they obviously like him the best. Jerry was talking about the wear and tear backs take and I believe they feel signing Morris will help the running game. The team desperately needs a playmaker on defense so unless the Chargers take Ramsey I expect him to be our pick.

 

[BlindFaith]

thats what Im saying hes a SS. 10 TFL 4 FF, 12 breakups

This isn't college.

Mark Barron led the league in TFL last year - he had 16. And that's because he can't cover or play deep. He's an inside the box SS.

The next two highest both played for Arizona - Mathieu and Bucannon. Both had 11. Obviously some scheme dependencies here.

6 other safeties had between 9 and 6.

Because I'm not confident after reading a few reports about his hips and playing the ball with his back turned
to the play....

Several things I've read and even heard (NFL Draft show with Bryan Broddus) they discussed he plays extremely well when the play is in front of him but due to hip rotation when he plays with his back to the play hes not as effective.

yeah, and what does Broaddus do now?

He can open up plenty fine. All this hip talk is crazy. I get it, read and regurgitate.

Has he played a ton at corner? No. Does he need to refine his technique on when to turn for the ball? Yes. Is he best suited to cover the small, quick receivers. Not ideally, but he can. He's also 6'1" and 209 pounds. He can jump, run and out physical any WR in the league. Give me Ramsey covering Julio Jones over Hargreaves any day and ALL day on Sunday. He can match up better against small WR than anyone in this draft can against bigger more physical WR.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Who in the NFL is a ball hawk then? Only 5 players had more than 5 interceptions last year.

Josh Norman who is now the highest paid CB in the league had 4.
Aqib Talib had 3
Eric Berry 2
Richard Sherman 2

Or is there a cutoff number of interceptions to be called a ball hawk. If so, what is that number exactly? Or maybe you just dont consider the above listed players ball hawks because of their paltry interception counts?

So yes, please define ballhawk for me.

The only guy you have listed that is a ball hawk is Richard Sherman, because he had 16 ints between 2012-2013. Now he may not be one anymore, since he has only 6 between 2014-2015

As far as who is currently a ball hawk, you can say Marcus Peters, he's young enough that if he is able to repeat the high int numbers he's definitely one. Trumaine Johnson may be on the way to becoming one, but this could just be a flash in the pan.

 

[AbeBeta]

oh, you mean like the signing of a top first round drafted running back in McFadden for nothing from a few years back that ran for 1100 yards behind this offensive line in 11 games he started with no quarterback or lead receiver....god I'd hate to think what he'd get with a healthy Romo, a lead receiver and an offensive line together for another year for a whole season......paid 13 million for Hardy, how did that work out....worked pretty well for Carolina and they let him go

A few years back? 8 seasons under his belt and no history of staying healthy.

You don't draft RB because if that? No, you prepare to eat his deal if you can upgrade

 

[BlindFaith]

The only guy you have listed that is a ball hawk is Richard Sherman, because he had 16 ints between 2012-2013. Now he may not be one anymore, since he has only 6 between 2014-2015

As far as who is currently a ball hawk, you can say Marcus Peters, he's young enough that if he is able to repeat the high int numbers he's definitely one. Trumaine Johnson may be on the way to becoming one, but this could just be a flash in the pan.

I guess Kurt Coleman is a ballhawk then? The 7th round safety picked by the Panthers. He had 7.

How 'bout Marcus Williams. The undrafted CB of the Jets. He had 6. Ballhawk?

This whole notion that A. a ballhawk has to have interceptions is just not correct and B. that a safety or corner have to be a "ballhawk" to be good is just nonsense.

So what do we call a guy who knocks the ball away or covers so well that other teams just don't through his way? That's right, shutdown corner. And Ramsey has the ability to be just that.

 

[coult44]

I've heard this now from David Moore, Mike Fisher, Dane Brugler, and a couple of other local insiders.

Dallas' pick will be either Jalen Ramsey or Ezekiel Elliott. If they're both there, Dallas will take Ramsey. Joey Bosa is out of the running at 4.

San Diego is not going to take Ramsey, but they might trade out of the pick so another team can. That's likely the only way Dallas takes Elliott.

Unless, of course, Dallas is trades down, but those partners aren't expected to be willing to give up much.

Sounds like Jalen Ramsey it most likely will be. I'm fine with the pick, but I'd much rather have Elliott because I want immediate impact.

But if Ramsey is an Ed Reed type of player, then I'll get over it just fine.

There's supposed to be a lot of defensive linemen in Rounds 2 and 3.

This is the best plan unless we could somehow get a crazy trade down scenario.

 

[texbumthelife]

Who in the NFL is a ball hawk then? Only 5 players had more than 5 interceptions last year.

Josh Norman who is now the highest paid CB in the league had 4.
Aqib Talib had 3
Eric Berry 2
Richard Sherman 2

Or is there a cutoff number of interceptions to be called a ball hawk. If so, what is that number exactly? Or maybe you just dont consider the above listed players ball hawks because of their paltry interception counts?

So yes, please define ballhawk for me.

We are talking about college. Jalen Ramsey hasn't played a down in the NFL as far as I know. We are projecting what guys did in college to the NFL. To assume a guy who had three picks in his career will suddenly be a ball hawk against better competition, makes little to no sense.

 

[LocimusPrime]

I think they will either take Bosa or will roll the dice on Myles Jack

Jack might not even get picked in the first.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I guess Kurt Coleman is a ballhawk then? The 7th round safety picked by the Panthers. He had 7.

How 'bout Marcus Williams. The undrafted CB of the Jets. He had 6. Ballhawk?

This whole notion that A. a ballhawk has to have interceptions is just not correct and B. that a safety or corner have to be a "ballhawk" to be good is just nonsense.

So what do we call a guy who knocks the ball away or covers so well that other teams just don't through his way? That's right, shutdown corner. And Ramsey has the ability to be just that.

neither kurt coleman or marcus Williams have been consistent enough to call them ball hawks. this spike in ints could easily be the exception, not the rule, but if they put up similar numbers next year, then they would be. also if you've been following the thread, no one has said you have to be a ball hawk to be good. it has been said several times that Ramsey could be great, but he's no ball hawk, which was mentioned due to the ed reed comparisons.