Climate Change

[BigStar]

Yes

Of course, not all 12 million US scientists therefore agree with ‘The Consensus’. But this puts the PetitionProject’s 31,486 signatories in some kind of context.
Our maths here is somewhat coarse. Some better data suggests the ‘consensus’ figure is around 97.5% of publishing climatologists and around 90% of all publishing scientists supporting the human-induced climate theory. See this study for more details (PDF – Doran And Zimmerman 2009)

Actually, here’s how some of it looks:

 

[jrumann59]

Climate change today is our, Earth is Flat, or the universe revolves around the earth theory of yester years. So what happens when the magnetic pole shift is done adn the temperatures starts falling, and the amount of UV getting to the surface starts going down. Will they be honest enough to say, "Oops my bad." I doubt they will say, "See following our advice has started to make a difference." in the 1800's it was precious metals, in the 1900's it was oil, in 2000's it is solar/wind power, there is always some entity behind the curtain pulling the strings.

 

[Hoofbite]

http://americanprosperity.com/weather-channel-founder-debunks-global-warming-hoax/

Coleman says in the video there are 9,000 PhDs and 31,000 scientists who have signed a petition saying that the CO2 global warming theory is a hoax. These climate change “non-believers” aren’t heard by most Americans because they don’t receive government funding. And they aren’t covered by the mainstream media because it almost always promotes the climate change theory.

That site that has 31,000 signatures is terrible. Check a few pages back.

 

[burmafrd]

That site that has 31,000 signatures is terrible. Check a few pages back.

just love to watch you twist in the wind

 

[burmafrd]

Climate change today is our, Earth is Flat, or the universe revolves around the earth theory of yester years. So what happens when the magnetic pole shift is done adn the temperatures starts falling, and the amount of UV getting to the surface starts going down. Will they be honest enough to say, "Oops my bad." I doubt they will say, "See following our advice has started to make a difference." in the 1800's it was precious metals, in the 1900's it was oil, in 2000's it is solar/wind power, there is always some entity behind the curtain pulling the strings.

why do you think it went from GLOBAL WARMING to CLIMATE CHANGE? Because they realized they were going to get called on that; and figure with all the support they have in the MSM and government no one will notice.

 

[Hoofbite]

just love to watch you twist in the wind

I don't even know how to respond to you. You are so willfully dense it's hard to decide if responding at all is worthwhile because there is literally nothing that can be said that you won't ignore as you continue to just spout off.

Anyway, here goes. These are the "Qualifications of Signers":

Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

Over 1/3rd of their signees have a Bachelor of Science degree. That is not a scientist and there's not a single person on earth who would say they were.

Here's the actual petition:

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/GW_Petition_Only_90dpi.png​

Here's how they collected the information.

This petition is primarily circulated by U. S. Postal Service mailing to scientists. Included in this mailing are the petition card, the letter from Frederick Seitz, the review article, and a return envelope. If a scientist wishes to sign, he fills out the petition and mails it to the project by first class mail.

Additionally, many petition signers obtain petition cards from their colleagues, who request these cards from the project.

Basically, "I am who I say I am, and have the indicated level of education in the field of study that I say I do".

That's it. Look in a phonebook and you can fill out as many petitions as you like.

They do include this disclaimer:

Petition project volunteers evaluate each signer's credentials, verify signer identities, and, if appropriate, add the signer's name to the petition list.

Well, that's comforting isn't it. At least they evaluate and verify names........or so they say.

Here's an article that found the names of celebrities and fictional characters on the list:

Several environmental groups questioned dozens of the names: "Perry S. Mason" (the fictitious lawyer?), "Michael J. Fox" (the actor?), "Robert C. Byrd" (the senator?), "John C. Grisham" (the lawyer-author?). And then there's the Spice Girl, a k a. Geraldine Halliwell: The petition listed "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell."

Asked about the pop singer, Robinson said he was duped. The returned petition, one of thousands of mailings he sent out, identified her as having a degree in microbiology and living in Boston. "It's fake," he said.

Perry Mason, Michael J. Fox, and a Spice Girl? That's some pretty astonishing expertise. There are other reports that Charles Darwin was on the list at one time until someone wrote about it and the site pulled the name.

To be fair, I'm betting these are just a few that slipped through the cracks, though. They are censoring fakes, right?

"When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake," Robinson, 56, said in a telephone interview from Oregon.

No way of filtering out fakes, which means the inverse of, "there's no way of validating real signatures" is also true.

What about the organizer himself? Surely this guy is in the know about global warming, right?

Robinson, who acknowledges he has done no direct research into global warming, said the petition includes thousands of people "qualified to speak on this subject" including biochemists, geophysicists and climatologists.

No direct research into global warming? You mean the guy who organized the petition isn't even qualified to say a single thing about global warming? Color me shocked. So what does this guy do? Apparently he's a politician but he also the President of the Oregon Institute of Medicine.

That sounds legit. "Institute" and "Medicine" in the same sentence, that has to be something respectable.

http://www.oism.org/

Aside from it being stuck in the late 1990's visually, the site and entire institute are a joke. Wanna know what the OISM looks like? Straight from their homepage:

What is that? A shed, or sheet metal shop perhaps?

Click around the site. You'll see all sorts of great links to information such as how a diet of raw vegetables and fruits can cure cancer, and - perhaps my favorite - links to sites that deal with Doomsday Prepping.

Anyone want to know how to survive a nuclear war? Well, OISM has you covered.

http://www.oism.org/s32p903.htm



Honestly, is there anything more that needs to be said? That petition, and the guy who organized it are a laughing stock. Just search "Petition Project" and you'll find so much information about how awful that site is that you'd have to be just as crazy as Robinson himself to put any stock into his site.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Here in Maryland, it was a pretty cold winter, spring seemed rather chilly, and the summer, so far, has seemed pretty tame with a lot of days cold. We have many days with a high around 80 with the lows dropping into the 50's. Sorry, just not feeling any global warming. Changing the name to 'climate change' was a genius move on their part. Man-made climate change, yeah, that's the ticket. As long as it is man-made and bad, the research money will flow.

 

[BigStar]

"But temperature change itself isn't the most severe effect of changing climate. Changes to precipitation patterns and sea level are likely to have much greater human impact than the higher temperatures alone. For this reason, scientific research on climate change encompasses far more than surface temperature change. So "global climate change" is the more scientifically accurate term."

http://pmm.nasa.gov/education/articles/whats-name-global-warming-vs-climate-change

It is used interchangeably in the scientific community. It was changed to avoid the confusion link to simple temperature fluctuations as referenced several times in this thread.

 

[iceberg]

Wake up before_replying, note to self

 

[DFWJC]

That poll in 2009 for Earth Scientists is interesting.
I know a helluva lot of those...all with PHDs or Masters degrees...and not a single one that was asked to take that survey. In fact, I've never met a single Earth Scientist that thinks for sure that man is a key factor in climate change. Not one. And these are some of the best Geologists and Geophysicist in the world.

But I DO know several, like me, who would not rule out the possibility.

Anyway, hopefully we're all for a cleaner environment.

 

[BigStar]

That poll in 2009 for Earth Scientists is interesting.
I know a helluva lot of those...all with PHDs or Masters degrees...and not a single one that was asked to take that survey. In fact, I've never met a single Earth Scientist that thinks for sure that man is a key factor in climate change. Not one. And these are some of the best Geologists and Geophysicist in the world.

But I DO know several, like me, who would not rule out the possibility.

Anyway, hopefully we're all for a cleaner environment.

 

[burmafrd]

I don't even know how to respond to you. You are so willfully dense it's hard to decide if responding at all is worthwhile because there is literally nothing that can be said that you won't ignore as you continue to just spout off.

Anyway, here goes. These are the "Qualifications of Signers":

​

Over 1/3rd of their signees have a Bachelor of Science degree. That is not a scientist and there's not a single person on earth who would say they were.

Here's the actual petition:

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/GW_Petition_Only_90dpi.png​

Here's how they collected the information.

​

Basically, "I am who I say I am, and have the indicated level of education in the field of study that I say I do".

That's it. Look in a phonebook and you can fill out as many petitions as you like.

They do include this disclaimer:

​

Well, that's comforting isn't it. At least they evaluate and verify names........or so they say.

Here's an article that found the names of celebrities and fictional characters on the list:

​

Perry Mason, Michael J. Fox, and a Spice Girl? That's some pretty astonishing expertise. There are other reports that Charles Darwin was on the list at one time until someone wrote about it and the site pulled the name.

To be fair, I'm betting these are just a few that slipped through the cracks, though. They are censoring fakes, right?

​

No way of filtering out fakes, which means the inverse of, "there's no way of validating real signatures" is also true.

What about the organizer himself? Surely this guy is in the know about global warming, right?

​

No direct research into global warming? You mean the guy who organized the petition isn't even qualified to say a single thing about global warming? Color me shocked. So what does this guy do? Apparently he's a politician but he also the President of the Oregon Institute of Medicine.

That sounds legit. "Institute" and "Medicine" in the same sentence, that has to be something respectable.

http://www.oism.org/

Aside from it being stuck in the late 1990's visually, the site and entire institute are a joke. Wanna know what the OISM looks like? Straight from their homepage:

What is that? A shed, or sheet metal shop perhaps?

Click around the site. You'll see all sorts of great links to information such as how a diet of raw vegetables and fruits can cure cancer, and - perhaps my favorite - links to sites that deal with Doomsday Prepping.

Anyone want to know how to survive a nuclear war? Well, OISM has you covered.

http://www.oism.org/s32p903.htm



Honestly, is there anything more that needs to be said? That petition, and the guy who organized it are a laughing stock. Just search "Petition Project" and you'll find so much information about how awful that site is that you'd have to be just as crazy as Robinson himself to put any stock into his site.

Did I say anything about the petition? Just laughing at you

 

[burmafrd]

That poll in 2009 for Earth Scientists is interesting.
I know a helluva lot of those...all with PHDs or Masters degrees...and not a single one that was asked to take that survey. In fact, I've never met a single Earth Scientist that thinks for sure that man is a key factor in climate change. Not one. And these are some of the best Geologists and Geophysicist in the world.

But I DO know several, like me, who would not rule out the possibility.

Anyway, hopefully we're all for a cleaner environment.

cutting pollution is always good.

The Kyoto BS was the first example of idiocy on a wide scale. It made no mention of China or India or many other polluters. Yet for how long did the wacko's whine and cry about us not signing it?

 

[DFWJC]

cutting pollution is always good.

The Kyoto BS was the first example of idiocy on a wide scale. It made no mention of China or India or many other polluters. Yet for how long did the wacko's whine and cry about us not signing it?

The ultimate double standard

 

[BigStar]

The ultimate double standard

And the fact that they are one of the biggest trading partners with the US doesn't apply? Pass that bucket...

 

[Hoofbite]

Did I say anything about the petition? Just laughing at you

You quoted my reply about the petition saying I was twisting in the wind.

Don't back off it now cause I went out and did all the legwork you should have before mocking my statement about that site.

 

[jrumann59]

cutting pollution is always good.

The Kyoto BS was the first example of idiocy on a wide scale. It made no mention of China or India or many other polluters. Yet for how long did the wacko's whine and cry about us not signing it?

It actually was not given to countries to sign with "developing" economies, I beleive the 2 biggest countries to get exemptions from Kyoto was China and India, and that is one reason why GWB refused to sign. It would have further hamstrung our economy more than the EPA already hamstrings the economy.

 

[Rockport]

That poll in 2009 for Earth Scientists is interesting.
I know a helluva lot of those...all with PHDs or Masters degrees...and not a single one that was asked to take that survey. In fact, I've never met a single Earth Scientist that thinks for sure that man is a key factor in climate change. Not one. And these are some of the best Geologists and Geophysicist in the world.

But I DO know several, like me, who would not rule out the possibility.

Anyway, hopefully we're all for a cleaner environment.

Here's a whole boat load:

http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/report/WG1AR5_SPM_FINAL.pdf

 

[jimmy40]

Well it's 12:00 on August the 2nd and here in Bryan/College Station Tx it's 74 degrees with a north breeze blowing. Climate change, global warming, whatever the hell you guys want to call it or blame it on, I like it.

 

[Rogah]

It is used interchangeably in the scientific community. It was changed to avoid the confusion link to simple temperature fluctuations as referenced several times in this thread.

Bull. It was changed for public relations. When you use the term "global warming" you are attaching a specific phenomenon to your thesis. But "climate change" is so incredibly vague, it can be applied everywhere.

Lot of hurricanes this year? Climate change!
Very few hurricanes this year? Climate change!
Lot of tornadoes this year? Climate change!
Very few tornadoes this year? Climate change!
Hot outside? Climate change!
Cold outside? Climate change!

Of course, all this conveniently ignores the fact that in the 4 billion year history of our planet, there has never been a period of time where the climate was not changing.