College athletes arise! You half nothing to lose but your chains!

[Doomsday101]

So they have to work @ Jack in the Box bc the NCAA and NFL devised a clever rule that forces young athlete's hand into "scholarship" opportunities. Like you said, these are generally young atheletes that could not afford college otherwise, so they offer this "scholarship" as payment. When it has been discovered how much profit the schools derive from these "scholarship" athletes, it is becoming clear that they ALSO don't care about these athletes. Why should they be forced to follow these rules for the pure motive of greed on behalf of the NFL/NCAA?

The money made is shared and goes back into these program and other benifets to student athletes. Most of these kids will not play NFL or MLB or NBA. NFL draft 7 rounds 32 teams 224 players out of how many college football players? A guy is a total idiot if that is the soul reason to go to college, they give you the oppertunity to play sports to get an education what the kids do with that oppertunity is their own choosing

 

[Doomsday101]

That is why it is considered a free farm league. Weed out the average talent, and develop their bodies to be ready to compete in the NFL. MLB has the minors, the NFL has the NCAA. People calling for the rule change are merely asking for transparancy on behalf of the NFL/NCAA. No more "the opportunitiy" talk. Explain these profits?

Then it is a very poor farm system when so many fail yet the kids can still benifet with the oppertunity for a top notch education and ablity to make a better life for himself even if he never plays another down. It is not all about the NFL or turning Pro. No doubt there is profit they bring in money and the money is shared by schools it goes back into a varity of athletic programs meaning more kids can go to college on scholorships and get a chance of a college education. These college are not pocketing the money.

 

[Doomsday101]

Let us not forget that going to college means . . . BABES!

Babe and parties, I had several friends who did not make the grades and had to leave UT because of too many babes and parties. Freshman year is a tough one.

 

[BigStar]

Then it is a very poor farm system when so many fail yet the kids can still benifet with the oppertunity for a top notch education and ablity to make a better life for himself even if he never plays another down. It is not all about the NFL or turning Pro. No doubt there is profit they bring in money and the money is shared by schools it goes back into a varity of athletic programs meaning more kids can go to college on scholorships and get a chance of a college education. These college are not pocketing the money.

A poor farm system? Tell that to the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, etc. This is where the "pay" issues are really debated upon. Just because the school uses the profit to FUND other arenas doesn't change where the money stemmed from. They are pumping out athletes that are ready to compete "almost" instantaneously and it isn't a coincidence that so many top talents come from the same schools. I'm all for offering the opportunity to go to school for lower income students, just don't sugarcoat titles to make the public feel comfortable with your actions. They are student athletes that the school profits greatly from; or esle the practice would've been abolished a long time ago.

The fact that age restrictions and the "competition" @ D1 schools is considered the only "legitmate" option to display one's skills alos support the idea of a monopoly for College aged athletes to become "employed". That alone proves the position of the players. How did the competition develop to this level of quality without intentional action(s) on behalf of the NCAA and the NFL? The NCAA developed this system in coordination with the NFL. Students aren't racing to semi pro teams and the CFL because it is not considered "legitimate" competition and a place to "develop" one's skills. College football is the preferred venue for that. The NFL "prefers" players go through the "farm league" to showcase and develop their craft until they are fit to compete in the next league. The NCAA profits from the players and events, while being able to parlay that profit into other arenas. The burdens on student athletes are heavier than the typical student and should be paid accordingly for making such accomodations as a result of the entities in place (NCAA/NFL eligibitly provisions)

 

[DFWJC]

The whole play for pay thing is really a tough one to figure out.
And yes, other than a few exceptions, football does fund all of the other sports programs...and the vast majority of the time, even that is not enough and donations are required.

The real question is should they have to go to college at all. I guess if the pro sport in their field says so (and they have a right to) then that's how it works.

Still, there is a real argument though about someone who is elite in his or her field having to attend college before being able to earn a living at it in a free market.

Here are just a few who succeeded at the highest level and were not forced to go to college (though some did for a year or two) to acheive it:

John D Rockefeller (Standard Oil)
Jimmy Dean (foods)
1000+ hockey players
1000+ baseball players
1000+ tennis pros
1000+ golf pros
100000 entertainers of all sorts
a few more non-athletes....
Larry Ellison (co-founder Oracle)
Ray Kroc (founder of McDonald's)
Abe Lincoln

and a seemly infinite number of others

If you are elite in your field, normally you are allowed to give it a go without college

 

[BigStar]

The whole play for pay thing is really a tough one to figure out.
And yes, other than a few exceptions, football does fund all of the other sports programs...and the vast majority of the time, even that is not enough and donations are required.

The real question is should they have to go to college at all. I guess if the pro sport in their field says so (and they have a right to) then that's how it works.

Still, there is a real argument though about someone who is elite in his or her field having to attend college before being able to earn a living at it in a free market.

Here are just a few who were succeeded in the highest level and were not forced to go to college (tough some did for a year or two) to achive it:

John D Rockefeller (Standard Oil)
Jimmy Dean (foods)
1000+ hockey players
1000+ baseball players
1000+ tennis pros
1000+ golf pros
100000 entertainers of all sorts
a few more non-athletes....
Larry Ellison (co-founder Oracle)
Ray Kroc (founder of McDonald's)
Abe Lincoln

and a seemly infinite number of others

If you are elite in your field, normally you are allowed to give it a go without college

Great points! Your last statement is really my main point. How can one be forced into accepting a "scholarship" merely because of the rules put in place by the NFL (in coordination with NCAA ) and the school that just so happens to profit IMMENSLEY from the rules in place? Somthing smells, and it isn't just my lack of hygiene

 

[Doomsday101]

A poor farm system? Tell that to the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, etc. This is where the "pay" issues are really debated upon. Just because the school uses the profit to FUND other arenas doesn't change where the money stemmed from. They are pumping out athletes that are ready to compete "almost" instantaneously and it isn't a coincidence that so many top talents come from the same schools. I'm all for offering the opportunity to go to school for lower income students, just don't sugarcoat titles to make the public feel comfortable with your actions. They are student athletes that the school profits greatly from; or esle the practice would've been abolished a long time ago.

The fact that age restrictions and the "competition" @ D1 schools is considered the only "legitmate" option to display one's skills alos support the idea of a monopoly for College aged athletes to become "employed". That alone proves the position of the players. How did the competition develop to this level of quality without intentional action(s) on behalf of the NCAA and the NFL? The NCAA developed this system in coordination with the NFL. Students aren't racing to semi pro teams and the CFL because it is not considered "legitimate" competition and a place to "develop" one's skills. College football is the preferred venue for that. The NFL "prefers" players go through the "farm league" to showcase and develop their craft until they are fit to compete in the next league. The NCAA profits from the players and events, while being able to parlay that profit into other arenas. The burdens on student athletes are heavier than the typical student and should be paid accordingly for making such accomodations as a result of the entities in place (NCAA/NFL eligibitly provisions)

those conferance do produce better than others but as a whole most kids will never play pro sports they will get a lot more out of the degree than they will out of the fact they played football or some other sport. While I agree some compensation outside of the scholorship should be given equally to the student athletes I do not agree that some kids should be getting paid more than others. If you pay 1 you pay the all, this is something that the NCAA has talked about doing and hopefully they will but it is not so called pay for play where the star player gets the big money others get less. The mistake with making them union they already get many benifets and now by being an employee they can be forced to pay taxes on that scholorship that they currently do not have to pay. Northwestern gives out 4 year scholorships how about if they go 1 year scholorship and when someone better comes along and takes your spot how about if they choose not to give you the other 3 years?

 

[BigStar]

those conferance do produce better than others but as a whole most kids will never play pro sports they will get a lot more out of the degree than they will out of the fact they played football or some other sport. While I agree some compensation outside of the scholorship should be given equally to the student athletes I do not agree that some kids should be getting paid more than others. If you pay 1 you pay the all, this is something that the NCAA has talked about doing and hopefully they will but it is not so called pay for play where the star player gets the big money others get less. The mistake with making them union they already get many benifets and now by being an employee they can be forced to pay taxes on that scholorship that they currently do not have to pay. Northwestern gives out 4 year scholorships how about if they go 1 year scholorship and when someone better comes along and takes your spot how about if they choose not to give you the other 3 years?

We agree alot more than I thought even with all my ranting I understand the importance of education in building one's character and for offering financial opportunities by way of occupations that would normally be off limits without a college degree/education. Unfortunately, a lot of the student athletes aren't of this mature mindset, and colleges are in no hurry to correct this short sighted perspective. I agree completely about standard pay across the board dependant on the sport and division, etc. The FLA & AL example of offering more first year money relates to this potential conflict and would definately harm the integrity of the collegiate game (even more so). The tax and legal implications of removing the student athlete scholarship program and putting the burden back on the student is something I admittedly am not well versed in so will defer to you on those issues. Good back n forth.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

those conferance do produce better than others but as a whole most kids will never play pro sports they will get a lot more out of the degree than they will out of the fact they played football or some other sport. While I agree some compensation outside of the scholorship should be given equally to the student athletes I do not agree that some kids should be getting paid more than others. If you pay 1 you pay the all, this is something that the NCAA has talked about doing and hopefully they will but it is not so called pay for play where the star player gets the big money others get less. The mistake with making them union they already get many benifets and now by being an employee they can be forced to pay taxes on that scholorship that they currently do not have to pay. Northwestern gives out 4 year scholorships how about if they go 1 year scholorship and when someone better comes along and takes your spot how about if they choose not to give you the other 3 years?

And the questions keep mounting.
So many things that this fertile mind half not even ventured upon.
Good responses from all!
I hope some college president and union leadeers and student athletes read this and say to himself or herself: "Wow, so many things from the fertile minds of the CZ!"

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Babe and parties, I had several friends who did not make the grades and had to leave UT because of too many babes and parties. Freshman year is a tough one.

we might be on to something such as College X offers Athlete X a babe/personal assistant as part of a union contract to play for that college.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

The money made is shared and goes back into these program and other benifets to student athletes. Most of these kids will not play NFL or MLB or NBA. NFL draft 7 rounds 32 teams 224 players out of how many college football players? A guy is a total idiot if that is the soul reason to go to college, they give you the oppertunity to play sports to get an education what the kids do with that oppertunity is their own choosing

you attended Farmers Branch/Carrollton schools?

 

[Doomsday101]

you attended Farmers Branch/Carrollton schools?

Stephen F. Austin State University

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Stephen F. Austin State University

So anser the root question.

 

[Galian Beast]

This boils down to entitlement. Not by the players, but people like GimmeTheBall who feel as though these players should play without compensation, while schools make hand over fist due to their efforts.

- First the vast majority of college players don't go on to professional sports.
- The NCAA sells off their likenesses to things like Electronic Arts and Jersey sales. And yet these players are not entitled to having their own agents, can't receive gifts, and can't do advertisements.
- How ever much these schools demand, the players as a strong union can demand more on top of it.
- These schools make tons of money, they can certainly compensate the players appropriately.
- Lastly if the college athletics industry collapses because they have to do the right thing by their players, then so be it.

Just as BigStar said, all this is, is a free farm league. If college sports go under you will see farm leagues rise up to replace them for any sport that can raise funds for itself.

 

[Galian Beast]

The whole play for pay thing is really a tough one to figure out.
And yes, other than a few exceptions, football does fund all of the other sports programs...and the vast majority of the time, even that is not enough and donations are required.

The real question is should they have to go to college at all. I guess if the pro sport in their field says so (and they have a right to) then that's how it works.

Still, there is a real argument though about someone who is elite in his or her field having to attend college before being able to earn a living at it in a free market.

Here are just a few who succeeded at the highest level and were not forced to go to college (though some did for a year or two) to acheive it:

John D Rockefeller (Standard Oil)
Jimmy Dean (foods)
1000+ hockey players
1000+ baseball players
1000+ tennis pros
1000+ golf pros
100000 entertainers of all sorts
a few more non-athletes....
Larry Ellison (co-founder Oracle)
Ray Kroc (founder of McDonald's)
Abe Lincoln

and a seemly infinite number of others

If you are elite in your field, normally you are allowed to give it a go without college

Hockey and Baseball are the best examples.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

This boils down to entitlement. Not by the players, but people like GimmeTheBall who feel as though these players should play without compensation, while schools make hand over fist due to their efforts.

- First the vast majority of college players don't go on to professional sports.
- The NCAA sells off their likenesses to things like Electronic Arts and Jersey sales. And yet these players are not entitled to having their own agents, can't receive gifts, and can't do advertisements.
- How ever much these schools demand, the players as a strong union can demand more on top of it.
- These schools make tons of money, they can certainly compensate the players appropriately.
- Lastly if the college athletics industry collapses because they have to do the right thing by their players, then so be it.

Just as BigStar said, all this is, is a free farm league. If college sports go under you will see farm leagues rise up to replace them for any sport that can raise funds for itself.

How simplistic.
But let me elaborate: Most students work at minimum wage jobs to get through college.
Many athletes, already coddled in high scool, are coddled in college. On top of that, they mostly get scholarships and everything free other than beer money.
Now they want to get paid?
Well, how much?
And who gets paid?
And will women's soccer players be in on the bounty? Heck no!
Will the average student get a break on tuition because others half free scholarships and everything paid for and on top of that get paid? heck no!

Talk about entitlement.
Tell you what. Pay each footballl player $1,000 a month. Is that fair? that will keep them in beer, babes and the latest fashions.
Now, the schools charge them $1,000 a month for room and board. And upon graduation (yeah, right) charge them $20,000 to $100,000 for their degrees or education.

Hmmmm.

 

[Galian Beast]

How simplistic.
But let me elaborate: Most students work at minimum wage jobs to get through college.
Many athletes, already coddled in high scool, are coddled in college. On top of that, they mostly get scholarships and everything free other than beer money.
Now they want to get paid?
Well, how much?
And who gets paid?
And will women's soccer players be in on the bounty? Heck no!
Will the average student get a break on tuition because others half free scholarships and everything paid for and on top of that get paid? heck no!

Talk about entitlement.
Tell you what. Pay each footballl player $1,000 a month. Is that fair? that will keep them in beer, babes and the latest fashions.
Now, the schools charge them $1,000 a month for room and board. And upon graduation (yeah, right) charge them $20,000 to $100,000 for their degrees or education.

Hmmmm.

Most students don't bring the school millions of dollars in additional revenue. You want someone to work without proper compensation so that it doesn't shake anything up. That is entitlement.

Everyone can tell that you want to screw over the college athletes, so I'm not really sure what use it is to argue with you.

 

[Doc50]

The bigger the school sport, the more notoriety and fame and job connections and opportunities and babes (or dudes) etc........

Any high school athlete will jump at the chance to get a free education while playing the sport that he or she loves and being an ambassador for their school; it's a major part of the American dream. Now, if scholarships fall short, then that should be addressed for all sports.

The problem with this system arises when said athletes begin to believe that they are more important than their school, sport, or team.

Winning in such a physical sport as football doesn't come easy, and the increased intensity in college compared to high school may cause some to feel that they cannot meet all their obligations on the field and in the classroom. If that becomes the case, then they should not be playing sports -- academics should be #1. Colleges have to honor their scholarships if the athlete gets injured, so they should also honor those that they have recruited who have been unable to succeed at at both sports and studies. The investment is made at the time of their signing, and every opportunity is made to allow for an easier academic pathway (which I do not favor, BTW).

The opportunity afforded through the college experience -- especially one including athletic competition -- is invaluable; and that, my friends, is payment enough.

Should someone be a great enough athlete but have poor student aptitude, he can find ways to shine through the AFL or the evolution of other club sports. The fact that college attendance for sports may have little or nothing to do with academics, and that classes and grades are convoluted, belittling the premise of "higher education" is sickening.

 

[ologan]

You want to unionize? Unionize!!! Pay them what their scholarship would run the University. Add some for medical. Make them get their own insurance. Make them sign a contract that they play for four years.
Are big universities farm systems for pro sports??? Seems to be, but then again, big universities are farm systems for every major corporation in america.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Yeah, it half began at Northwestern University where a has-been athlete led the fight for the right to unionize "student" athletes.

Undoubtedly the main point by the athletes will be SHOW ME THE MON-AY!

Ok, pay them, all you rich colleges. This would be fitting at places like the Univese of Texas that half more money than Arthur Godrey and Leonard Nimoy combined.

But what of the small colleges barely making money and barely getting by on ticket sales?

If i am a college, this is what I would tell unionzed players who want monies:
OK, we will pay you as per the new contract between the college and your athletes.
Now, here is your bill for your four years of college education: $20,000 for small colleges or maybe $200,000 for what it costs to be schooled at top-tier universities.

And We will charge you for you unis, transportation to and from games, all medical and rehab and surgical costs and all publicity associated with your attendance here.

Also, as per the contract, you must maintain a C+ average in "real" courses that "real" students take as course requirements.

The following year, the student unions, faced with the realities of real life, disband and return to their cushy status as "student" athletes.


Holla!
problem (for the colleges) solved.

This is laughable. Once you introduce money into the equation, all that control flies out the window. They'll pay the same amount for uniforms and medical costs as the pros do, and you won't be able force them to take "real" classes anymore than you can now.