Commanders apologize for Portis' remarks on dog fighting; Samuels says he was wrong

[Bob Sacamano]

No my position is that animals have no rights. Do with them what you will.

that's funny, because your position relates that you don't have one

 

[5Stars]

No my position is that animals have no rights. Do with them what you will.

You're a disgrace....

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It is illegal in every state. Welcome to 2007.

And since you've equated it with laws that are unfounded jokes....well, I'd say welcome to my ignore user list...but for some reason...mine is labled as Ignore Scum of the Earth User list.

Hey, you gotta use what you have, right?

Oh noes. Im having a conversation.

If you can condemn torturing animals on the one hand and facilitate torturing other animals then more pwer to you.

Bascally the only justification worth its salt is that its illegal. You always follow the speed limit?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that's funny, because your position relates that you don't have one

Summer you couldnt explain how my position is wrong if your life depended on it. Once again you are blindly following someone elses argument unable to come up with one of your own.

Fort misrepresented my argument.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh noes. Im having a conversation.

If you can condemn torturing animals on the one hand and facilitate torturing other animals then more pwer to you.

Bascally the only justification worth its salt is that its illegal. You always follow the speed limit?

you ever heard of the saying

the end justifies the means?

dog fighting's only end is the destruction of one animal for no certifiable reason, while the "torture", or more accurate, killing of animals in the use of food consumption serves the end of sustaining human beings, I don't know how you could compare the 2, I can see your point about killing animals for their fur or their leather, but I don't wear any kind of fur, or own a pair of leather shoes, and there are many just like me, therefore making your grouping of condoning one and condeming the other moot

 

[Doomsday101]

Summer you couldnt explain how my position is wrong if your life depended on it. Once again you are blindly following someone elses argument unable to come up with one of your own.

Fort misrepresented my argument.

Your argument is pretty clear. "No my position is that animals have no rights. Do with them what you will."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Summer you couldnt explain how my position is wrong if your life depended on it. Once again you are blindly following someone elses argument unable to come up with one of your own.

Fort misrepresented my argument.

who's argument am I taking again? this is me bro, don't get mad because you're getting piled on here

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your argument is pretty clear. "No my position is that animals have no rights. Do with them what you will."

yeah but thats not what fort said.

 

[iceberg]

And Ice, if you lose respect for me because of this then i am sorry but I think what i think and do not allow sentiment to alter that.

fine.

i do.

you say my pets have no rights, i have an issue with such stupidity. that's more or less to say you can pop into someone's backyard and shoot their dog - why? cause it has no rights.

and people wonder why evolution takes so long.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

yeah but thats not what fort said.

that's between you and fort, neither I, and I'm pretty sure Doomdsday101, are even talking about his argument, we're talking about your argument that animals have no rights, and how it's preposterous

 

[Hostile]

The thing is Hos I am not denying your right to any of it. Im just pointing out a conclusion i came to and decided in good conscious i cannot condemn dogfighting. I can condemn him for breaking the law in and of itself because it effects his team but not for what he may have done in and of itself.

I actually pointed out Elam because WG pointed it out to me. I myself was unaware but seeing the outrage here i think it could be well placed closer to home.

No, but you're equating illegal with legal and I think that's off center mang.

As for what went on in 2003 read THIS.

He was convicted a couple of weeks later.

Thank you. The sooner he gets cut the better.

 

[dboyz]

This thread is all over the map.

A few thoughts here. First hunting and fishing and all that is most certainly not comparable to dog fighting for instance. The deer population is quite large and if they weren't hunted or harvested if you will, there would starvation of deer and many other problems.

I don't believe in animal rights per se, but I do believe that moral humans treat animals humanely. Dog fighting is clearly wrong, to make sport of animals ripping each other apart (out of the wild).

As for Fuzzy's analogies to veal and mink, I'd have to look into it more. Personally I don't eat veal, but not for any moral reason. I guess I don't know if the only way to make veal is to have them changed up for their life. I don't like that idea, but again I'm not sure that is comparable to dog fighting.

Another factor is an animal's intended purpose. A cow, for instance is basically a pile of meet with a head and four legs. That's what it is for. To be fattened, killed and eaten. Nonetheless, I don't we should be cruel to even such animals.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you ever heard of the saying

the end justifies the means?

dog fighting's only end is the destruction of one animal for no certifiable reason, while the "torture", or more accurate, killing of animals in the use of food consumption serves the end of sustaining human beings, I don't know how you could compare the 2, I can see your point about killing animals for their fur or their leather, but I don't wear any kind of fur, or own a pair of leather shoes, and there are many just like me, therefore making your grouping of condoning one and condeming the other moot

who's argument am I taking again? this is me bro, don't get mad because you're getting piled on here

You quoted a post that said i contradicted myself and then said i did without any other basis. And like i said you couldnt explain how my position is wrong if your life depended on it. Keep on quoting others summer.

and you are talking about utilitarianism and i am very well aware of that. that is what i have been pointing out. its called pick your cardinal sin: wrath or gluttony.

There is a difference between allowing a cow to free range in a herd til eventual slaughter and taking a new born calf from its mother stuffing it in a special cage so i cannot move for a few months and then killing it by electrocution.

The means and end in putting it in that cage so that it tastes better. And its also readily apprent your missing the boat on my stance. im not going to pick and choose which form of animal torture or killing is alright and which one is not.

I facilitate the killing and torture of animals for my own gain. So do you the only difference is i dont condemn others for it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

fine.

i do.

you say my pets have no rights, i have an issue with such stupidity. that's more or less to say you can pop into someone's backyard and shoot their dog - why? cause it has no rights.

and people wonder why evolution takes so long.

you have a right to property. if an animal had rights it couldnt be your property.

 

[dboyz]

With the Elam deal, I think it was discussed at the time.

I do not condone what Elam did or what went on in that house, however...

A couple of the other players had sex with this girl and none of them were convicted of anything. Elam was the only one convicted (I think he pled?)

When the girl made clear she wasn't interested he left her alone. Again I don't condone his activities, but there clearly was some gray area in what was going on. There was an interesting article about Elam posted last training camp I think about this.

Also, Elam admitted his mistake and moved on. Has Vick done that.. NO

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, but you're equating illegal with legal and I think that's off center mang.

Thank you. The sooner he gets cut the better.

Legality and illegality are something that was arbitrarily created by some guy that I have just about zero control over. I have stated repeatedly that i think for myself and will not blindly allow others to think for me.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that's between you and fort, neither I, and I'm pretty sure Doomdsday101, are even talking about his argument, we're talking about your argument that animals have no rights, and how it's preposterous

How is it preposterous? And dont quote dooms.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

With the Elam deal, I think it was discussed at the time.

I do not condone what Elam did or what went on in that house, however...

A couple of the other players had sex with this girl and none of them were convicted of anything. Elam was the only one convicted (I think he pled?)

When the girl made clear she wasn't interested he left her alone. Again I don't condone his activities, but there clearly was some gray area in what was going on. There was an interesting article about Elam posted last training camp I think about this.

Also, Elam admitted his mistake and moved on. Has Vick done that.. NO

He came back did some fondling and then left. And other being present just makes it worse not better.

 

[iceberg]

you have a right to property. if an animal had rights it couldnt be your property.

and many would tell you their dog/pets are NOT property but family.

they can be bought, sold, given away - but so can kids. adoption for example - ain't cheap. isn't that "buying" a human?

i'm out dude. you wanna think animals have no rights fine - i'll think what i think of you and move on. arguing is pointless cause no one is going to change their mind in here.

 

[Hostile]

Legality and illegality are something that was arbitrarily created by some guy that I have just about zero control over. I have stated repeatedly that i think for myself and will not blindly allow others to think for me.

Ah, Lord of the Flies.