Commanders apologize for Portis' remarks on dog fighting; Samuels says he was wrong

5Stars

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iceberg;1507460 said:
again - the baby cows don't go to war with each other do they? i've not seen a calf running around with face paint on going FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!! with people in the background going "$20 on blueface" and they fight each other to the death.

seems like you're trying to put a link there that just does't exist.


Your wasting your time with that twerp! He cannot distinquish between domesticated animals and animals that are bred and processed for consumption!

Dogfighting vs. killing a cow? He thinks they are the same thing...:rolleyes:
 

iceberg

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5Stars;1507475 said:
Your wasting your time with that twerp! He cannot distinquish between domesticated animals and animals that are bred and processed for consumption!

Dogfighting vs. killing a cow? He thinks they are the same thing...:rolleyes:

he's trying to say cruel is cruel but i disagree and will just leave it at that.

i'm not saying fur traders or veal production is a wonderful thing, but it's not the same as dog fighting.
 

Hostile

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FuzzyLumpkins;1507453 said:
It is one thing to take a stand against one thing and let another go. We all have to pick our fights. it is quite another to condemn a man for doing something that you do.

This is not me looking at others as much as it is me looking at myself. i like veal for example so i in good consciousness cannot say Vick is bad for dogfighting if he indeed actually actively participated.

its something i demand of myself not just others.
Veal, the fur trade, hunting and fishing are all legal.

Dogfighting is not.

I don't wear fur. I also have no issue with someone who does. Not my fight. I have a friend who will throw paint on a woman's fur coat. Tell her to do the same to a biker's leather jacket and suddenly she is not so sure of the depth of her own "outrage."

I fish, but I can't eat fish because I am allergic. I always donate what I catch to someone who will eat it. I'm not a vegetarian and don't have an issue with what anyone eats. I don't like sweet potatos personally, but I will not condemn you for eating them. Some people like veal. Some people can't eat it because their moral compass won't allow it. That's fine, I just don't want it pushed on me or anyone else.

I don't drink, but drinking is legal and if someone wants to enjoy a drink as long as they don't get behind the wheel and endanger lives I am okay with it. In fact if it were up to me the legal drinking age would be 18 not 21. Why? Because we tell a man (or woman) that they can marry at 18 without consent, have kids, go to war...but can't have a beer? That makes no sense to me.

In the same vein while I agree that MJ is less dangerous than alcohol I don't condone anyone toking up. It's against the law. You don't like the law? Fine, don't lecture me on it. It's still the law. You want to indulge, then accept the consequences of it.

I didn't know about Elam's legal issues. This despite the fact I live and breathe this stuff. Because I've not shown outrage I'm a hypocrite? Well, then so be it. I am a pretty uninformed hypocrite but I will study up on it. I didn't think he would make the team this year anyway. No loss. But if it will help you sleep at night, I'll decry his presence on this team.

Anti-hunters will never agree with a hunter (I haven't in 20 years though would still go) but hunters also perform a service. These animals would die of starvation from over population without hunting. Everyone I know who does hunt eats the meat. Not really my thing but I can't in good conscience say that hunters are on par with those who fight dogs and I sort of resent the implication. My hunting was limited to predators who killed the yearling cattle on the ranch I lived on, or rabbits who kill the farm crops, but I still know many hunters and they are not blood thirsty villians.

I can't say the same about those who fight or condone dog fighting. If you can then good for you. I'll consent to you calling me a hypocrite and will keep to myself any rebuttal definitions. I'll stack my integrity and moral compass against almost anyone not named Mother Teresa or Mahatma Ghandhi. I think I'm a pretty honest individual with good common sense. I have faults like anyone else, but I can separate legal from illegal even when I don't agree with it. That's the secret to sanity. Maybe you get there after you're past 40 years in age. I don't know. I'd like to think I was always fairly sane. I guess that isn't for me to judge though.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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And Ice, if you lose respect for me because of this then i am sorry but I think what i think and do not allow sentiment to alter that.
 

Vintage

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This thread is making me hungry for some meat.

Might be grilling burgers tonite....
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1507484 said:
This thread is making me hungry for some meat.

Might be grilling burgers tonite....

I feel ya on that. Did my first grilling of the year last night. Some fish, and I put some "Butt Rub" on it - found it in south cackalacky. Delicious.
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1507487 said:
I feel ya on that. Did my first grilling of the year last night. Some fish, and I put some "Butt Rub" on it - found it in south cackalacky. Delicious.


Damnit, Rick Roll'd again.

-----

I did some brats a week ago.....beer boiled brats are one of my favorites. I feel the need for a juicy, bacon cheeseburger with a side of veal.....
 

WoodysGirl

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Vintage;1507484 said:
This thread is making me hungry for some meat.

Might be grilling burgers tonite....
fried chicken for me. Yum.

BTW, to go with the animal confessions. I hit a bird with my truck. Not sure how it happened, but it somehow ended up in the grill.
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1507488 said:
Damnit, Rick Roll'd again.

-----

I did some brats a week ago.....beer boiled brats are one of my favorites. I feel the need for a juicy, bacon cheeseburger with a side of veal.....

Is that what this thread's got you hankering for?

Personally, I'm hitting the Korean restaurant next to the Wal-Mart. This thread is inspiration.

because they cook dogs - don't fight them
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Hostile;1507481 said:
Veal, the fur trade, hunting and fishing are all legal.

Dogfighting is not.

I don't wear fur. I also have no issue with someone who does. Not my fight. I have a friend who will throw paint on a woman's fur coat. Tell her to do the same to a biker's leather jacket and suddenly she are not so sure of the depth of her own "outrage."

I fish, but I can't eat fish because I am allergic. I always donate what I catch to someone who will eat it. I'm not a vegetarian and don't have an issue with what anyone eats. I don't like sweet potatos personally, but I will not condemn you for eating them. Some people like veal. Some people can't eat it because their moral compass won't allow it. That's fine, I just don't want it pushed on me or anyone else.

I don't drink, but drinking is legal and if someone wants to enjoy a drink as long as they don't get behind the wheel and endanger lives I am okay with it. In fact if it were up to me the legal drinking age would be 18 not 21. Why? Because we tell a man (or woman) that they can marry at 18 without consent, have kids, go to war...but can't have a beer? That makes no sense to me.

In the same vein while I agree that MJ is less dangerous than alcohol I don't condone anyone taking up. It's against the law. You don't like the law? Fine, don't lecture me on it. It's still the law. You want to indulge, then accept the consequences of it.

I didn't know about Elam's legal issues. This despite the fact I live and breathe this stuff. Because I've not shown outrage I'm a hypocrite? Well, then so be it. I am a pretty uninformed hypocrite but I will study up on it. I didn't think he would make the team this year anyway. No loss. But if it will help you sleep at night, I'll decry his presence on this team.

Anti-hunters will never agree with a hunter (I haven't in 20 years though would still go) but hunters also perform a service. These animals would die of starvation from over population without hunting. Everyone I know who does hunt eats the meat. Not really my thing but I can't in good conscience say that hunters are on par with those who fight dogs and I sort of resent the implication. My hunting was limited to predators who killed the yearling cattle on the ranch I lived on, or rabbits who kill the farm crops, but I still know many hunters and they are not blood thirsty villians.

I can't say the same about those who fight or condone dog fighting. If you can then good for you. I'll consent to you calling me a hypocrite and will keep to myself any rebuttal definitions. I'll stack my integrity and moral compass against almost anyone not named Mother Teresa or Mahatma Ghandhi. I think I'm a pretty honest individual with good common sense. I have faults like anyone else, but I can separate legal from illegal even when I don't agree with it. That's the secret to sanity. Maybe you get there after you're past 40 years in age. I don't know. I'd like to think I was always fairly sane. I guess that isn't for me to judge though.

The thing is Hos I am not denying your right to any of it. Im just pointing out a conclusion i came to and decided in good conscious i cannot condemn dogfighting. I can condemn him for breaking the law in and of itself because it effects his team but not for what he may have done in and of itself.

I actually pointed out Elam because WG pointed it out to me. I myself was unaware but seeing the outrage here i think it could be well placed closer to home.

As for what went on in 2003 read THIS.

Elam takes stand in defense of rape accusations
By SCOTT BRODFUEHRER & MEGHANNE DOWNES
Issue date: 9/1/03 Section: News
PrintEmail Article Tools Page 1 of 1
Media Credit: Tim Kacmar
Former Notre Dame safety leaves the courthouse Saturday following being convicted of sexual battery.


SOUTH BEND - Former Notre Dame safety Abram Elam took the stand in his own defense Friday and acknowledged that he fondled his accuser and three of his teammates had sex with her, but maintained that the acts were consensual.

During his testimony, Elam admitted to fondling the woman while she was kissing his former teammate Justin Smith in the basement of his off-campus house on Warrick Street. Smith had invited the woman to his house after they danced with each other at the State Theatre in South Bend during the early morning hours of March 28, 2002.

Elam claimed he had gone to Smith's house with Lorenzo Crawford after spending the evening at the State Theatre. Elam said he was good friends with Smith and often spent time at his house.

Following the initial incident in the basement, Elam said he went upstairs to Smith's bedroom to locate a condom.

"I thought [the victim] was feeling for me," said Elam, who was found guilty Saturday on a charge of sexual battery but not guilty on the more severe charges of sexual deviate conduct and conspiracy to commit rape.

He said that while he was searching for the condom, he heard someone come upstairs and he hid in Smith's closet so he would not be discovered.

Elam said Smith and the woman entered the room and began to kiss, at which point Elam testified he came out of his hiding place and said he probably touched the woman's hips and legs. Then, he said the woman asked him if he had a girlfriend and he eventually left the room. He said he then put his ear to the door and later heard someone come to the door, prompting him to hold it closed because he said he did not want the two to know he had been eavesdropping on them.

"I grabbed and held the doorknob, I didn't hear anyone on the other end. I held it for a couple seconds, I felt a tug ... I dashed off to the room across from Justin," Elam said.

Elam said he later returned to the room and saw Crawford, Smith and the woman engaging in sexual activity.

The woman testified these acts were not consensual, while the football players contended it was.

Elam said he came back into the room wearing his shorts, but removed them while he was in the room. He said Smith eventually got up and may have left the room. At that time, he said he exchanged words with the woman, "to ask her about having sex." He said the woman refused and again asked, "Don't you have a girlfriend?"

Thursday, Dykes and Smith testified that the woman specifically said no to Elam's request, citing the fact that he had a girlfriend.

Elam said Smith and Crawford again began to engage in sexual activity with the woman and he removed his shorts and began to fondle her. He denied, however, the woman's claim that he put his fingers inside her at any point during the incident.

During cross-examination, special prosecutor Maureen Devlin asked Elam if the woman gave him permission to touch her. Elam responded that the woman neither gave him permission to touch her nor told him not to touch her.

"I don't approve of the conduct performed that night ... I am embarrassed for all that I have lost. I ask God for forgiveness," Elam said.

He was convicted a couple of weeks later.
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1507490 said:
Is that what this thread's got you hankering for?

Personally, I'm hitting the Korean restaurant next to the Wal-Mart. This thread is inspiration.


A hunkering for Korean food?

Oh by whatever do you mean?
 

fortdick

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FuzzyLumpkins;1506844 said:
Im just saying that there is nothing more wrong with dogfighting than there is with the veal and fur trade for example.

Say very slowly . . . it is a felony, it is a felony, it is a felony.

Could argue that smoking dope is no worse than drinking booze. Ever hear of a stoned driver killing a family in a car wreck? They drive about 5 miles an hour and are too scared to change lanes, so they keep circling the 7-11 and never get the Chips Ahoy they have been craving. But the bottom line is, it is illegal.

Look at my avatar. That is my dog Woody (Yes, Darren, sorry WG). Could I ever think of throwing him into the ring with another dog to watch him fight? Look at that face. Ever see a happier dog? He wasn't bred to fight, he was bred to catch tennis balls and sleep on my bed.

Dogs are a special gift from God. Anyone that abuses that gift is a commie scum as far as I am concerned.
 

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WoodysGirl;1507489 said:
fried chicken for me. Yum.

BTW, to go with the animal confessions. I hit a bird with my truck. Not sure how it happened, but it somehow ended up in the grill.


Semi-Drivers actually speed up when they see a deer. Reason being, if they are going to hit, may as well incinerate it.

Leaves less damage to the semi. All that remains is a huge pool of blood and the head/rack. Its pretty nasty.

I've never seen it happen, but have seen the aftermath. My uncle on the other hand, has seen it happen.
 

Doomsday101

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fortdick;1507498 said:
Say very slowly . . . it is a felony, it is a felony, it is a felony.

Could argue that smoking dope is no worse than drinking booze. Ever hear of a stoned driver killing a family in a car wreck? They drive about 5 miles an hour and are too scared to change lanes, so they keep circling the 7-11 and never get the Chips Ahoy they have been craving. But the bottom line is, it is illegal.

Look at my avatar. That is my dog Woody (Yes, Darren, sorry WG). Could I ever think of throwing him into the ring with another dog to watch him fight? Look at that face. Ever see a happier dog? He wasn't bred to fight, he was bred to catch tennis balls and sleep on my bed.

Dogs are a special gift from God. Anyone that abuses that gift is a commie scum as far as I am concerned.


I don’t know he looks pretty vicious to me. :laugh2:
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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fortdick;1507498 said:
Say very slowly . . . it is a felony, it is a felony, it is a felony.

Could argue that smoking dope is no worse than drinking booze. Ever hear of a stoned driver killing a family in a car wreck? They drive about 5 miles an hour and are too scared to change lanes, so they keep circling the 7-11 and never get the Chips Ahoy they have been craving. But the bottom line is, it is illegal.

Look at my avatar. That is my dog Woody (Yes, Darren, sorry WG). Could I ever think of throwing him into the ring with another dog to watch him fight? Look at that face. Ever see a happier dog? He wasn't bred to fight, he was bred to catch tennis balls and sleep on my bed.

Dogs are a special gift from God. Anyone that abuses that gift is a commie scum as far as I am concerned.


Fine its illegal and that is about all there is to stand on. its alos not illegal in every state. There are a whole ton of laws that are unfounded jokes.
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1507494 said:
A hunkering for Korean food?

Oh by whatever do you mean?

PuppySpecial.jpg


puppy.jpg


All that you know....is at an end.
 

5Stars

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superpunk;1507487 said:
I feel ya on that. Did my first grilling of the year last night. Some fish, and I put some "Butt Rub" on it - found it in south cackalacky. Delicious.


You hurt a fish! YOU HURT A FISH!!

What about the damn dog! If you hurt a fish, then you will hurt a dog! Don't you know that it's the same damn thing! Have you not been reading the Fuzzy thoughts on this matter? Shame, shame, shame!

By the way, were those fish breed to fight or protect you?

:eek:
 

fortdick

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Vintage;1507500 said:
Semi-Drivers actually speed up when they see a deer. Reason being, if they are going to hit, may as well incinerate it.

Leaves less damage to the semi. All that remains is a huge pool of blood and the head/rack. Its pretty nasty.

I've never seen it happen, but have seen the aftermath. My uncle on the other hand, has seen it happen.

The reason truck drivers speed up is because they want the deer to go under the truck. If you slow down, he will bounce up and into the windshield. Speed up and he rolls underneath. True.

"I need a bambulance!"
 

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FuzzyLumpkins;1507434 said:
How am i wrong Summer? How is abusing an animinal in one way for nothing more than self gratification any better than doing it another?

or are you saying its alright to abuse a baby cow but its not alright to abuse a dog?

FuzzyLumpkins;1507436 said:
and as per normal you quote out of context. i used it to point out an absurdity.

we're not talking about slaughtering animals for meat that sustains humans, we're talking about dog-fighting which is immoral and illegal, not to mention the fact that it betters noone except for the individual's greedy pocket

I guess we should place great white sharks on trial for eating seals:rolleyes:
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1507506 said:
PuppySpecial.jpg


puppy.jpg


All that you know....is at an end.

Does it come with sweet and sour dipping sauce?

I am a sucker for sweet and sour sauce.
 
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