Commanders suing fans who can’t keep their season tickets

[Temo]

Hate to say it, but BaybeeJay is right. You signed a mortgage. You lose your job, the mortgage is still due. As is your car payment, electricity payment, credit cards, etc, etc.

It just sound bad because its "football tickets". But the fact remains. You signed a contract to buy those tickets. You're supposed to buy them.

It sucks when someone loses thier job, but if any of you have ever lost a job, you know that the bank doesn 't call you and say "ah, don't worry about those mortgage payments".......

The only thing here that comes to light is there IS NO 160,000 person waiting list. If there were, they'd just sell the tix to those people. But there isn't a team in the league who doesn't lie when it comes to season tickets. You want to make them seem like their tough to get. It feeds sales, and allows you to charge more if you think they're tough to get.

There's no question that they have the legal right to do so. The fact is that they ARE double dipping, and making more profit from it. Most teams, even teams less successful than the Commanders, choose not to sue. The Commanders clearly dont' need to sue, they are a very popular team. But they do anyway. It's not illegal, but they could also choose not to be jerks.

 

[kapolani]

This is the kicker., for me. For years the Commanders have claimed that they have been "sold out" for generations to come. 160,00 person waiting list is the biggest laugher.

We find out yesterday that they were having trouble selling seats so some guy "who had no authority to do so" started pawning off groups of tickets to ticket brokers to make their commissions (ticket sales agents for the Commanders were working on a straight commission basis). All of a sudden the burgandy and baby **** yellow of FedEx field looked like Heinz Stadium South for the Steelers matchup. Guess where all all those Steelers' fans got their tickets?

Putting all of this together; how could a team with a 160,000 person waiting list possibly put their ticket sales agents in the type of bind that they would go behind the team's back and ***** out their tickets to ticket brokers just to make the rent?

As for suing the current season ticket holders, wouldn't it be easier to dial up one of these 160,00 desperate fans to recoup any losses you may have incurred by the "deadbeat" season ticket holder that has come on hard times and can no longer afford his obligation? It would seem a hell of a lot easier, to me, to just cut your losses with the guy and sell his rights to one of the suckers standing in a line 160,00 deep, no?

Just an example of the Danny Snyder spin on the joke that the entire organization has become. I hope he NEVER sells that team.

Well said.

Agree 100%.

Wouldn't it make more sense to dissolve the contract and pass it on to the next person?

What makes it even worse is the double dipping. They sue the ticket holder - then sell the tickets again?

 

[hendog]

I sure hope the boys don't ever stoop to this. Where's all the skins trolls now?

 

[CowboyWay]

There's no question that they have the legal right to do so. The fact is that they ARE double dipping, and making more profit from it. Most teams, even teams less successful than the Commanders, choose not to sue. The Commanders clearly dont' need to sue, they are a very popular team. But they do anyway. It's not illegal, but they could also choose not to be jerks.

In the fine print of the contract, I'm sure it states that they can resell these tickets. I don't like anymore than you, but as you say, they have the legal right to do it.

And they probably aren't 'double dipping' either. Just because they recieved judgements for the tickets doesn't mean they're going to see a dime. When the skins get the US marshals involved and raid an old lady's house and take her china and autographed picture of Matlock, because they won a judgment, then I'll agree they probably shouldn't be double dipping. But until then, I'm going to assume they get paid less than 10% of the time they win a judgment.

 

[jchap]

Well said.

Agree 100%.

Wouldn't it make more sense to dissolve the contract and pass it on to the next person?

What makes it even worse is the double dipping. They sue the ticket holder - then sell the tickets again?

This is going to be a big PR hit for them. You don't sue a 50 year season ticket holder over something like this. Reselling the tickets is also kind of slimy.

That said, I doubt this is that uncommon across the NFL. I would wager that if they knew the Washington Post would write this article the better business decision would have been to let these contracts go and resell the tickets.

 

[kapolani]

This is going to be a big PR hit for them. You don't sue a 50 year season ticket holder over something like this. Reselling the tickets is also kind of slimy.

That said, I doubt this is that uncommon across the NFL. I would wager that if they knew the Washington Post would write this article the better business decision would have been to let these contracts go and resell the tickets.

They are getting blasted on sports talk radio over here.

Come to think of it - I haven't heard anything good about the Foreskins on sports talk radio for a while over here.

 

[fredp22]

I thought they had the largest waiting list for tickets of any NFL team. Why would they want to upset their fans this way.

 

[SDogo]

Hate to say it, but BaybeeJay is right. You signed a mortgage. You lose your job, the mortgage is still due. As is your car payment, electricity payment, credit cards, etc, etc.

It just sound bad because its "football tickets". But the fact remains. You signed a contract to buy those tickets. You're supposed to buy them.

It sucks when someone loses thier job, but if any of you have ever lost a job, you know that the bank doesn 't call you and say "ah, don't worry about those mortgage payments".......

The only thing here that comes to light is there IS NO 160,000 person waiting list. If there were, they'd just sell the tix to those people. But there isn't a team in the league who doesn't lie when it comes to season tickets. You want to make them seem like their tough to get. It feeds sales, and allows you to charge more if you think they're tough to get.

There might not be a 160,000 people waiting but I can promise you for every fan trying to get out from udnerneath those tickets there is one waiting in line to get them.

The Commanders have every right to play this game but it's not a wise PR move and it's not going to help them in the long run. These fans might just find it easier to keep the tickets and scalp them then be sued. If they want to turn FedEx into a safe haven for opposing fans all over a dollar now then that's their right.

I just find it to be a filthy rotten move given the economy but I expect no less from Snyder. He is more about the almighty dollar then he is running a football team. Is this not the same guy who wanted to charge to watch practice?

 

[Alexander]

Why would they want to upset their fans this way.

I would suppose it is because they have that surplus of fans. For every segment they anger, some mindless drones will jump right in their spots.

The thing that is unique about the Commanders is that they haven't been bottom feeders for decades so the fanbase hasn't ever had the chance to go through a period of apathy, dwindle down and empty out the stands.

I guess year after year of just being "8-8. Not. Quite. There. Yet. Just. One. Player. Away. We Think." will keep that syndrome going.

 

[skinsscalper]

There might not be a 160,000 people waiting but I can promise you for every fan trying to get out from udnerneath those tickets there is one waiting in line to get them.

The Commanders have every right to play this game but it's not a wise PR move and it's not going to help them in the long run. These fans might just find it easier to keep the tickets and scalp them then be sued. If they want to turn FedEx into a safe haven for opposing fans all over a dollar now then that's their right.

I just find it to be a filthy rotten move given the economy but I expect no less from Snyder. He is more about the almighty dollar then he is running a football team. Is this not the same guy who wanted to charge to watch practice?

He didn't WANT to charge to watch practice. He actually charged.

And, I agree, I would just scalp the tickets to opposing teams' fans if I were hit with a lawsuit.

Also, in the article I read yesterday, it was reported that you could find many empty seats at FedEX Field last season. Sorry, but I don't buy that a team with THAT rabid of a fan base would have ANY empty seats (regardless of the opponent). There's only ten guaranteed games a year for the home town crowd (two being pre-season). Someone gonna try and sell me the boatload of **** that 160,00 people had better things to do. That whole organization is a series of smoke and mirrors.

And, I repeat, I hope Snyder NEVER sells that football team.

 

[Temo]

In the fine print of the contract, I'm sure it states that they can resell these tickets. I don't like anymore than you, but as you say, they have the legal right to do it.

And they probably aren't 'double dipping' either. Just because they recieved judgements for the tickets doesn't mean they're going to see a dime. When the skins get the US marshals involved and raid an old lady's house and take her china and autographed picture of Matlock, because they won a judgment, then I'll agree they probably shouldn't be double dipping. But until then, I'm going to assume they get paid less than 10% of the time they win a judgment.

Even if they get paid at all, they're obviously double-dipping. The fact is that most teams don't sue because there's really no good reason to do so. It's legal, but hilariously bad form.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Nothing better than punching your paying customers while their down.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

Hate to say it, but BaybeeJay is right. You signed a mortgage. You lose your job, the mortgage is still due. As is your car payment, electricity payment, credit cards, etc, etc.

It just sound bad because its "football tickets". But the fact remains. You signed a contract to buy those tickets. You're supposed to buy them.

It sucks when someone loses thier job, but if any of you have ever lost a job, you know that the bank doesn 't call you and say "ah, don't worry about those mortgage payments".......

The only thing here that comes to light is there IS NO 160,000 person waiting list. If there were, they'd just sell the tix to those people. But there isn't a team in the league who doesn't lie when it comes to season tickets. You want to make them seem like their tough to get. It feeds sales, and allows you to charge more if you think they're tough to get.

Yeah, But if I lose my house or car, I still don't have to pay for it.

 

[hermitkid]

Yeah, But if I lose my house or car, I still don't have to pay for it.

Sure you do. Just because the assets were seized doesn't mean that you're not on the hook for the remainder.

More often than not when a bank seizes their asset they are forced to sell it short of the value that they originally gave an individual a loan for.

You're still on the hook for that difference, and bankruptcy courts will decide whether, and how you will have to pay for that balance.

The same goes for those tickets.

We're not talking about regular season ticket holders here nevermind you. We're talking about premium seats that carry a contractual obligation of up to 10 years.

Sure, the team can turn around and sell them on a case by case basis, but given the pricing of those seats the likelihood of selling them out every game for the remainder of the original contract isn't necessarily a given.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Yeah, But if I lose my house or car, I still don't have to pay for it.

It seems to me a better analogy might be to an apartment lease. If you need to break your lease early, your landlord may have (depending on the laws in your state/locality and the specifics of your lease) the right to make you pay for the remaining months on your lease, even if they've got a long waiting list of people ready and willing to move into the apartment.

They often times will not do this because A) they're not jerks and/or B) they understand that this might hurt their reputation and future business.

 

[DallasDomination]

That's the team they follow?..Poor fools!

 

[adamknite]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203887.html



Last year, Hill's real estate sales were hit hard by the housing market crash, and she told the team that she could no longer afford her $5,300-a-year contract for two loge seats behind the end zone. Hill said she asked the Commanders to waive her contract for a year or two.


The sales office declined.



On Oct. 8, the Commanders sued Hill in Prince George's County Circuit Court for backing out of a 10-year ticket-renewal agreement after the first year. The team sought payment for every season through 2017, plus interest, attorneys' fees and court costs.



Hill couldn't afford a lawyer. She did not fight the lawsuit or even respond to it because, she said, she believes that the Bible says that it is morally wrong not to pay your debts. The team won a default judgment of $66,364.

-----------------------------------------

Dennis M. Butts, 62, worked as a contractor for the team at Commanders Park, the team headquarters. In 2006, he said he thought he had negotiated a year-to-year contract for four Touchdown Club seats at $8,000 each, for a total of $32,000 a year. After the first year, he said the team informed him that he had signed a six-year contract through 2012. He said the team told him that if he didn't buy the tickets again in 2007, he would owe for the entire contract.



The Commanders, Butts said, offered him a settlement under which he would pay $32,000 and the team would take back the tickets. He agreed but ended up not being able to make the payments, he said.



The Commanders went back to court and won a judgment for the full six years, plus interest and legal fees: $209,351. Butts said he cannot afford to pay it.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Sure you do. Just because the assets were seized doesn't mean that you're not on the hook for the remainder.

More often than not when a bank seizes their asset they are forced to sell it short of the value that they originally gave an individual a loan for.

You're still on the hook for that difference, and bankruptcy courts will decide whether, and how you will have to pay for that balance.

The same goes for those tickets.

We're not talking about regular season ticket holders here nevermind you. We're talking about premium seats that carry a contractual obligation of up to 10 years.

Sure, the team can turn around and sell them on a case by case basis, but given the pricing of those seats the likelihood of selling them out every game for the remainder of the original contract isn't necessarily a given.

If the Skins truly have a waiting list of 160k, then it is a given that they can sell them for the remainder of the original contract. If no one wanted the seats, then I can see the legal action. But with a waiting list, you call the next in line. If the list is accurate, then eventually (and soon) someone will gladly buy the tickets.

Of course, if you've been snowballing the public about the list, and the ticket office finds the need to sell unwanted tickets to brokers, then maybe you do sue to offset the glut of tickets.

Just sayn'. :laugh1:

 

[hermitkid]

Of course, if you've been snowballing the public about the list, and the ticket office finds the need to sell unwanted tickets to brokers, then maybe you do sue to offset the glut of tickets.

Just sayn'. :laugh1:

The list is for general admission seating, not premium seating. If you're on the waiting list you can get a premium seat tomorrow, that is if you're willing to enter a contract that commits you to high priced seating for many many years.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

And they probably aren't 'double dipping' either. Just because they recieved judgements for the tickets doesn't mean they're going to see a dime.

They are obviously double dipping. Their own PR guy bragged about the Skins offering payment plan options to these fans. Just because they don't want to pay for season tix now doesn't mean that they are bankrupt. But the Skins are so thoughtful to their fans that they may just push them into bankruptcy.

Maybe ESPN should be so outraged about the Cowboys having a videoboard that meets regulations and instead be outraged by the way the Skins are treating their beloved fans.





YAKUZA