Comparing Joey Bosa and Taco Charlton

[stilltheguru88]

People should never look for instant gratification fromma rookie pass rusher. Guys like Bosa the exception even amoungst top 10 picks. Mack and Watt combined for fewer then 10 sacks as rookies

I don't expect 10 sacks. I do expect him to show that he belongs and ready to contribute to this super bowl run this year!

 

[waldoputty]

-----------Weight--Arm length--10 yard split-40 yard --board jump--vertical jump--20 yard shuttle--cone--reps
Bosa------269-----33 3/8------------1.69--------4.86--------10'1"-------------31 1/2------------4.21--------------6.89---24
Taco-------277-----34 1/4------------1.63/1.7--4.93/4.83--9'7"--------------33-----------------4.39--------------7.17---25
Hardy-----281------34-----------------1.67--------4.79--------10'1"------------36-----------------4.62--------------7.13----21
Irving------272------37 1/4-----------1.69--------4.84--------10'8"------------38------------------4.53--------------7.27---13
Garrett----272-----35 1/4------------1.64--------4.63--------10'6"------------41-----------------------------------------------33

I even added David Irving.
Irving is basically a clone of Hardy.
In 2014, more explosive but much weaker (13 reps)

Taco is very similar to Irving though less explosive but more agile.
Hopefully the small advantage in agility allows him to play RDE.
I have never heard of Irving playing RDE.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

3rd overall vs 28th overall

 

[waldoputty]

3rd overall vs 28th overall

only care about whether we are getting a passrush.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I doubt that Collins moves to the 1T. That means that Irving, currently our best pass rusher, moves out to end.

Irving
Mayowa
Tapper
Taco
DLaw

There is no room for another DE without stopping someone's progress.

As has been pointed out next year sure when DLaw leaves in free agency then maybe but we not only need to see what Taco can do but we need to see what Tapper and Irving can do as well.

Now drafting another DE stops the progress of either the rookie in question or a guy like Tapper but that is not all. The opportunity cost is Awuzie.

All 5 corners played last year with Scandrick being gimp and Mo pulling his groin. Corner is also the most oft injured position in the NFL. So what you end up doing is take Awuzie off the field and replace him with McFadden or worse.

To replace Tapper or Mayowa with Basham? Terrible idea.

 

[xwalker]

-----------Weight--Arm length--10 yard split-40 yard --board jump--vertical jump--20 yard shuttle--cone--reps
Bosa------269-----33 3/8------------1.69--------4.86--------10'1"-------------31 1/2------------4.21--------------6.89---24
Taco-------277-----34 1/4------------1.63/1.7--4.93/4.83--9'7"--------------33-----------------4.39--------------7.17---25
Hardy-----281------34-----------------1.67--------4.79--------10'1"------------36-----------------4.62--------------7.13----21
Irving------272------37 1/4-----------1.69--------4.84--------10'8"------------38------------------4.53--------------7.27---13
Garrett----272-----35 1/4------------1.64--------4.63--------10'6"------------41-----------------------------------------------33

I even added David Irving.
Irving is basically a clone of Hardy.
In 2014, more explosive but much weaker (13 reps)

Taco is very similar to Irving though less explosive but more agile.
Hopefully the small advantage in agility allows him to play RDE.
I have never heard of Irving playing RDE.

Irving played some snaps at RDE but I don't think anybody sees him there full time; although with some players it's a matter of where they keep their weight.

If healthy DLaw could be RDE if he keeps his weight down, but at the higher weight he is a LDE.

Keep in mind when looking at numbers that players do vary their weight once they get to the NFL. Sometimes, more, sometimes less. Taco could drop 5 pounds and have better numbers. Irving is likely well over his draft weight (Cowboys and NFL weight listings are not accurate for veteran players).

 

[waldoputty]

I doubt that Collins moves to the 1T. That means that Irving, currently our best pass rusher, moves out to end.

Irving
Mayowa
Tapper
Taco
DLaw

There is no room for another DE without stopping someone's progress.

As has been pointed out next year sure when DLaw leaves in free agency then maybe but we not only need to see what Taco can do but we need to see what Tapper and Irving can do as well.

Now drafting another DE stops the progress of either the rookie in question or a guy like Tapper but that is not all. The opportunity cost is Awuzie.

All 5 corners played last year with Scandrick being gimp and Mo pulling his groin. Corner is also the most oft injured position in the NFL. So what you end up doing is take Awuzie off the field and replace him with McFadden or worse.

To replace Tapper or Mayowa with Basham? Terrible idea.

i think you keep 10 with 4 DT (thornton, paea, collins, tcrawford) so you have space for 6 DEs.
you left out moore who simply may not make it.
if dlaw plays like last year and with his second back surgery, he may not make the 53

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i think you keep 10 with 4 DT (thornton, paea, collins, tcrawford) so you have space for 6 DEs.
you left out moore who simply may not make it.
if dlaw plays like last year and with his second back surgery, he may not make the 53

And he sits on the roster and does nothing. Meanwhile an UDFA is getting significant snaps at CB.

Wishcasting outcomes to make room for your rueage is entertaining at least.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Irving played some snaps at RDE but I don't think anybody sees him there full time; although with some players it's a matter of where they keep their weight.

If healthy DLaw could be RDE if he keeps his weight down, but at the higher weight he is a LDE.

Keep in mind when looking at numbers that players do vary their weight once they get to the NFL. Sometimes, more, sometimes less. Taco could drop 5 pounds and have better numbers. Irving is likely well over his draft weight (Cowboys and NFL weight listings are not accurate for veteran players).

You just need to have pass rush ability to play RDE. This notion that he needs to be small is wrong. Otherwise Hardy could not have played it.

 

[Melonfeud]

Thanks I suspected that the Pro Day #s but did not know for sure.
I replaced the Pro Day #s with just the combine #s.
So this is the floor instead of the ceiling as the lingering effects of the high ankle sprain may be there at the combine.

I think we all agree the 40 # does not really matter so it is the 10 yard split - but it is the same as Bosa now instead of being outrageous good. the 2 jump #s 'cancel each other out'. So the primary difference are the agility numbers.

fuzzylumpkins mentioned the the extra weight does provide extra momentum for the OL to stop so one would expect they dont need to be the same. though it does seem cone #s are substantially worse still.

i did this mostly to make myself better. i got to believe one thing marinelli will do is to teach technique and get the most out of him. question is how long does that take. anyone have a guess how long the technique learning is going to take? another question is that he was a 1 year starter - was Bosa a one-year starter?

which DEs would you compare him to with a similar size? i can think of Hardy, but not sure of who else.

-----------Weight--Arm length--10 yard split-40 yard --board jump--vertical jump--20 yard shuttle--cone--reps
Bosa------269-----33 3/8------------1.69--------4.86------10'1'-------------31 1/2------------4.21--------------6.89---24
Taco-------277-----34 1/4------------1.70--------4.93------9'7"--------------33-----------------4.39--------------7.17---25
Garrett----272-----35 1/4------------1.64--------4.63------10'6"------------41-----------------------------------------------33

You mentioned " how long to learn/ develop techniques " , might be irrelevant ,but a dude took all of 10 seconds to point out that my leade foot should always be pointing in the direction of swing while shooting trap/ skeet,,, immediate 30% improvement,,, and I've swung fusils since before hitting the double digit age bracket(10)
It's going to come down to attitude and desire with these guys( that whole Randy Gregory and reefer thread,, ,,, ,,?) Hopefully they are humble and hunger.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

You just need to have pass rush ability to play RDE. This notion that he needs to be small is wrong. Otherwise Hardy could not have played it.

More often than not they are bigger than Haley/Ware, look at 4/3 DEs Too Tall/Tolbert or Bruce Smith/Reggie White. I'm showing my age but this conversation is a rerun as well. It should be funner watching Charlton than Kavika Ptimman/Shante Carver.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Bosa> taco+ tapper since they haven't even played a down

 

[Melonfeud]

That's an uninspiring list

True! Yet his painstaking research is factually pointing out that '6-8' sacks, just more than likely ( on average) ain't gonna happen,,, damn fine piece of analysis there @Plankton.

 

[Melonfeud]

Bosa> taco+ tapper since they haven't even played a down

Yeppers! everybody got to give the affirmative nod on that.
( yet, my slam card is ' BOOM' ain't nobody seen these cats in attack yet!)

 

[Melonfeud]

He appears to like the nose candy.

Truth be told,,, EVERYBODY LIKES IT! (just because on the base level, ain't nobody made any different when it comes to feeling good)
what was that old T.V. commercial? ,,, "try it, you'll like it",,, to bad people gotta' die/ be murdered over a kick not that far overboard from an amped up espresso.

 

[Bullflop]

When I watch Charlton I don't see a relelentless motor. He's not lazy by any means but he is not up to the level that Marinelli will demand.

I guess maybe most of those who think differently are seeing things then, huh? It's not unusual at all to see many who think otherwise.

On the other hand, I don't doubt for one second that Marinelli will demand more of him than he's accustomed to -- that's what he does.

Perhaps Charlton's fans are giving him slack, knowing that he played his last season with a high ankle sprain then? It's quite possible.

 

[xwalker]

You just need to have pass rush ability to play RDE. This notion that he needs to be small is wrong. Otherwise Hardy could not have played it.

I agree.

I'm just pointing out to him that the measured times are not an absolute comparison when you consider some players add or drop weight.

 

[TNCowboy]

Athletically, Bosa and Taco seem similar. It will come down to heart, study, and effort. No test to measure those.

It's not just heart.

Some people are just better at their sport of choice. They have an innate ability in their sport that can't be measured by anything other than the results on the field of play. Someone can be bigger, faster and stronger than Emmitt Smith, dedicate their entire life to football, yet never even play in the NFL, much less become a star. Taco Charlton can bust his hump for 15 years, and he might not be as good as Bosa, or any other good passrusher.

There is no yardstick to account for a person's God-given ability.

That's not to say Taco won't become a good player, he might.

 

[stilltheguru88]

It's not just heart.

Some people are just better at their sport of choice. They have an innate ability in their sport that can't be measured by anything other than the results on the field of play. Someone can be bigger, faster and stronger than Emmitt Smith, dedicate their entire life to football, yet never even play in the NFL, much less become a star. Taco Charlton can bust his hump for 15 years, and he might not be as good as Bosa, or any other good passrusher.

There is no yardstick to account for a person's God-given ability.

That's not to say Taco won't become a good player, he might.

He might end up better than Bosa from day 1 as well. You do realize that can happen, right?

 

[Trouty]

I actually feel bad for Hardy. I think the girl set him up because she wanted to extort money from him. Then he came to the Cowboys where the spotlight was 10x as compared to Carolina. I think being constantly in the news in a negative way caused him to have a mental breakdown.

He's trying to get back in the league. He just released another media release the other day. I would LOVE IT if we signed him.