Comparing Joey Bosa and Taco Charlton

[fishspill]

Athletically, Bosa and Taco seem similar. It will come down to heart, study, and effort. No test to measure those.

And skill. Bosa is very skillful.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Cowboys had more sacks last year.

So I take that as a yes? No more excuses then.

 

[waldoputty]

straight line speed doesn't matter much for DEs. unless they are chasing RB from the backside. the shuttle, broad jump and cone are more indicative of their ability to redirect, also have to take into account the first step. or the get off. Suggs had a 4.9 40 but he had that first step that was awesome and put him in position to win battles.

taco reminds me of a better Greg Ellis and if that's what he is, then that's good. this line starting to remind of 90's line with the depth, minus Charles haley. I am anxious to see Malik Collins in his second year. if Crawford can live up to expectations, then that's a nice set of DT to collapse the pocket and that's key.

we probably have everyone now except the RDE.
lets hope taco can do it.
i cared about the 10 yd split time because i wanted to see if he can play LEO

 

[fishspill]

Bosa was drafted right before Zeke. If he had fallen to 4th last year, do you think we would have drafted Bosa or would we have still drafted Zeke?

I was (am) a big Bosa homer. I also believed putting a premium back behind this line was the best idea for the team when the "logical" choice was to go cheap at RB with so much invested in the OL. I won either way.

The 20/20 hindsight dream would have been Bosa falling to #4 and Dallas getting Jordan Howard later on. Need a crystal ball and a Chargers' change of heart for that.

 

[reddyuta]

And skill. Bosa is very skillful.

Yep.Bosa has ninja kung ** hands ,Taco is still very raw in that aspect.I think 6-7 sack will be a very good year 1 for him.

 

[fishspill]

Yep.Bosa has ninja kung ** hands ,Taco is still very raw in that aspect.I think 6-7 sack will be a very good year 1 for him.

You nailed it; Bosa's hands are great. If I were to bet I'd go with your numbers for Taco if he plays enough this year, but that said I hold out hope Taco can pick up his technique quickly and wouldn't put it past him to exceed that. He won't become Bosa but he has a lot of nice tools to make him a force in a hurry.

 

[Plankton]

Yep.Bosa has ninja kung ** hands ,Taco is still very raw in that aspect.I think 6-7 sack will be a very good year 1 for him.

6-7 sacks would be outstanding and well above what can be reasonably expected for someone drafted 28th or lower in the draft.

I checked the last 20 years for edge rushers taken at 28 or as close to 28 (but not before) as possible for comps.

The average sack total for those players? 3.25 sacks per year. Only one player cracked 10 sacks for a season as a rookie that was taken at or around #28 overall - Darren Howard back in 2000.

Here's the down and dirty (players with 6 sacks and above bolded):

1997 - Trevor Pryce (largely a DT) - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
1998 - Kenny Mixon - 49th overall - 2.0 sacks
1999 - Patrick Kerney - 30th overall - 2.5 sacks
2000 - Darren Howard - 33rd overall - 11.0 sacks
2001 - Kyle Vanden Bosch - 34th overall - 0.5 sacks
2002 - Kalimba Edwards - 35th overall - 6.5 sacks
2003 - Tyler Brayton - 32nd overall - 2.5 sacks
2004 - Travis LaBoy - 42nd overall - 3.5 sacks
2005 - Luis Castillo (3-4 DE) - 28th overall - 3.5 sacks
2006 - Mathias Kiwanuka - 32nd overall - 4.0 sacks
2007 - LaMarr Woodley - 46th overall - 4.0 sacks
2008 - Lawrence Jackson - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
2009 - Evander "Ziggy" Hood (3-4 DE) - 32nd overall - 1.0 sacks
2010 - Jared Odrick - 28th overall - 0.0 sacks
2011 - Cameron Heyward (3-4 DE) - 31st overall - 1.0 sacks
2012 - Nick Perry - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
2013 - Cornelius "Tank" Carradine - 40th overall - 3.0 sacks
2014 - DeMarcus Lawrence - 34th overall - 0.0 sacks (2 sacks in playoffs)
2015 - Preston Smith - 38th overall - 8.0 sacks
2016 - Emmanuel Ogbah (3-4 DE) - 32nd overall - 6.0 sacks

 

[LocimusPrime]

6-7 sacks would be outstanding and well above what can be reasonably expected for someone drafted 28th or lower in the draft.

I checked the last 20 years for edge rushers taken at 28 or as close to 28 (but not before) as possible for comps.

The average sack total for those players? 3.25 sacks per year. Only one player cracked 10 sacks for a season as a rookie that was taken at or around #28 overall - Darren Howard back in 2000.

Here's the down and dirty (players with 6 sacks and above bolded):

1997 - Trevor Pryce (largely a DT) - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
1998 - Kenny Mixon - 49th overall - 2.0 sacks
1999 - Patrick Kerney - 30th overall - 2.5 sacks
2000 - Darren Howard - 33rd overall - 11.0 sacks
2001 - Kyle Vanden Bosch - 34th overall - 0.5 sacks
2002 - Kalimba Edwards - 35th overall - 6.5 sacks
2003 - Tyler Brayton - 32nd overall - 2.5 sacks
2004 - Travis LaBoy - 42nd overall - 3.5 sacks
2005 - Luis Castillo (3-4 DE) - 28th overall - 3.5 sacks
2006 - Mathias Kiwanuka - 32nd overall - 4.0 sacks
2007 - LaMarr Woodley - 46th overall - 4.0 sacks
2008 - Lawrence Jackson - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
2009 - Evander "Ziggy" Hood (3-4 DE) - 32nd overall - 1.0 sacks
2010 - Jared Odrick - 28th overall - 0.0 sacks
2011 - Cameron Heyward (3-4 DE) - 31st overall - 1.0 sacks
2012 - Nick Perry - 28th overall - 2.0 sacks
2013 - Cornelius "Tank" Carradine - 40th overall - 3.0 sacks
2014 - DeMarcus Lawrence - 34th overall - 0.0 sacks (2 sacks in playoffs)
2015 - Preston Smith - 38th overall - 8.0 sacks
2016 - Emmanuel Ogbah (3-4 DE) - 32nd overall - 6.0 sacks

That's an uninspiring list

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Does he have assets now? Compare our defense to New England and tell me the difference. Honestly

Does he have assets now.......I don't know....he has much better prospects this year then he has ever has. He actually has assets that are catered to play the type of football he likes to play.

 

[xwalker]

-----------Weight--Arm length--10 yard split-40 yard --board jump--vertical jump--20 yard shuttle--cone--reps
Bosa------269-----33 3/8------------1.69--------4.86------10'1'-------------31 1/2------------4.21--------------6.89---24
Taco-------277-----34 1/4------------1.63--------4.83------9'7"--------------33-----------------4.39--------------7.17---25
Garrett----272-----35 1/4------------1.64--------4.63------10'6"------------41-----------------------------------------------33

Taco's 10 yard split was from pro day, which was 0.07 faster than in the combine - possibly due to ankle injury. 40 time was also almost 0.1 faster on pro day.
Cone and Shuttle scores were from combine so he could be slightly better in those.

You know that Bose plays as a 3-4 DE in the NFL, right? It fits with his more power and straight line to the QB style from college, as opposed to the bend the corner style of some other pass rushers.

Bosa had pass rushing OLBs on the field with him which makes his job a little different than that of a 4-3 DE.

 

[drawandstrike]

-----------Weight--Arm length--10 yard split-40 yard --board jump--vertical jump--20 yard shuttle--cone--reps
Bosa------269-----33 3/8------------1.69--------4.86------10'1'-------------31 1/2------------4.21--------------6.89---24
Taco-------277-----34 1/4------------1.63--------4.83------9'7"--------------33-----------------4.39--------------7.17---25
Garrett----272-----35 1/4------------1.64--------4.63------10'6"------------41-----------------------------------------------33

Taco's 10 yard split was from pro day, which was 0.07 faster than in the combine - possibly due to ankle injury. 40 time was also almost 0.1 faster on pro day.
Cone and Shuttle scores were from combine so he could be slightly better in those.

I know a lot of people love combine #'s. There are a lot of really fantastic athletes who are only marginal football players. Every year we see people look at the combine stats and falling in complete and total love with some guy's #'s. What a beast! And then he actually gets drafted, goes into the NFL and...ends up 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart.

Combine #'s can tell you every now and then about an exceptional athlete who bloomed late so maybe his own college coaches didn't realize his sheer athletic ability, but that's about it.

When it comes to the top flight college performers, we all KNOW they can play. Nobody overlooked them.

It can't be stressed enough: the .10th of a second difference between 1 guy running a cone drill vs another guy tells you absolutely nothing about which one is a better football player.

 

[drawandstrike]

Bosa was a much better prospect no matter how many times fans post that their measureables were the same. 1000 RBs have had better measureables than Emmitt Smith, few have even approached his greatness.

DING DING WINNER

 

[waldoputty]

You know that Bose plays as a 3-4 DE in the NFL, right? It fits with his more power and straight line to the QB style from college, as opposed to the bend the corner style of some other pass rushers.

Bosa had pass rushing OLBs on the field with him which makes his job a little different than that of a 4-3 DE.

lol i did not know. i dont watch other teams unless they play the cowboys.
not sure quite how that would affect the projections for taco though.
any thoughts?

 

[waldoputty]

I know a lot of people love combine #'s. There are a lot of really fantastic athletes who are only marginal football players. Every year we see people look at the combine stats and falling in complete and total love with some guy's #'s. What a beast! And then he actually gets drafted, goes into the NFL and...ends up 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart.

Combine #'s can tell you every now and then about an exceptional athlete who bloomed late so maybe his own college coaches didn't realize his sheer athletic ability, but that's about it.

When it comes to the top flight college performers, we all KNOW they can play. Nobody overlooked them.

It can't be stressed enough: the .10th of a second difference between 1 guy running a cone drill vs another guy tells you absolutely nothing about which one is a better football player.

that is true, but that is all we have (at least what i have)
i wanted to see something elite in his numbers that would give me a big leg up.
like rico's height and weight.

 

[drawandstrike]

that is true, but that is all we have (at least what i have)
i wanted to see something elite in his numbers that would give me a big leg up.
like rico's height and weight.

Yeah I'm not saying looking at the #'s is a waste of time, it's all we have to compare them by for now. You can get a handle on which 1 may be a little bit more athletically gifted than the other.

I'm just warning people don't make that common mistake that because 1 guy is a tad more athletic than the other, that automatically means that guy is a better football player too.

 

[haleyrules]

Hard and not a fair comparison...One taken at the front of the 1st rd and the other at the end. Bosa was far more highly regarded.

 

[xwalker]

lol i did not know. i dont watch other teams unless they play the cowboys.
not sure quite how that would affect the projections for taco though.
any thoughts?

Some people said before last year's draft that Bose didn't bend the edge well enough to be at top 10 pick; however, most were looking at him as a 4-3 DE. At 3-4 DE there is less bending the edge and more using hands and power with quickness to go in more a straight-ish line to the QB, which are all things the was great at in college.

Bosa has no affect on Taco that I know about.

I think the best Taco comparison is Greg Hardy. In Carolina, Hardy was top 5 and maybe #1 in terms of 4-3 DEs. Marinelli raved about Hardy even after he was gone and even quoted stats showing how Hardy being on the field resulted in improving the performance DLaw on the other side.

 

[darthseinfeld]

May be, but I just go off of recent history. The last guy from a program like bama, Michigan, osu that came on late was Kirkpatrick in cincy. Everyone else either started out at least good or started out barely getting playing time.

Kareem Jackson too. He was awful his first couple years. Really turned it around after that

 

[waldoputty]

Some people said before last year's draft that Bose didn't bend the edge well enough to be at top 10 pick; however, most were looking at him as a 4-3 DE. At 3-4 DE there is less bending the edge and more using hands and power with quickness to go in more a straight-ish line to the QB, which are all things the was great at in college.

Bosa has no affect on Taco that I know about.

I think the best Taco comparison is Greg Hardy. In Carolina, Hardy was top 5 and maybe #1 in terms of 4-3 DEs. Marinelli raved about Hardy even after he was gone and even quoted stats showing how Hardy being on the field resulted in improving the performance DLaw on the other side.

as big a mistake as hardy was, i thought he was great for the D while his head was in the right place.
i still remember the nascar formation with him and gregory looked unstoppable.
yes it was preseason but it was so exciting to watch a dominant DL at work.
i will go get hardy's specs and add them to this.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The ones that are good are good immediately. The ones that are bad are bad immediately. If Taco is going to be good I'd bet on it showing quickly rather than in 2 years.

His hand work is a mess. He often regresses to use both arms and playing 2 gap technique while trying to work upfield for example. He screws up reads too.

It's going to take time as Marinelli rebuilds him. I could see him coming on late in the year but I bet people turn on him early cause he is going to take some time.