Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

[blindzebra]

You are making up some difference between a receiver and a runner.

Going to the ground applies if the entire 3 part of the process has not been completed. There is no partial completion for a receiver and the act common can come later.

That's just a big pile of made up garbage.

What is a player in the process of a catch? It is either an offensive player (receiver) or a defensive player attempting to catch a pass. What are they when they complete the process? A runner.

 

[rkell87]

We have talked about the Dez play - a lot. This was side discussion about the NFL Case Book.

My bad then, carry on.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I just wonder when you guys are going to go back to the film and watch the play? Then acknowledge Shield's tripped Dez at the very same time Dez reached out with his left foot, causing the going to the ground, which triggered the requirement to control the ball all through the process?

I see a lot of rule arguing, but all the things being argued ignores the one factor that supersedes all this he said she said rule debate.

Of course actually entertaining that notion of contact does scuttle one's rule book position. So never mind. Have fun.

 

[OmerV]

My bad then, carry on.

No problem, although if you were talking about the Dez play I am curious about your comment about having the ball ripped away by a defender. That didn't happen in the Dez play - at least not the one this thread is based on.

 

[OmerV]

I just wonder when you guys are going to go back to the film and watch the play? Then acknowledge Shield's tripped Dez at the very same time Dez reached out with his left foot, causing the going to the ground, which triggered the requirement to control the ball all through the process?

I see a lot of rule arguing, but all the things being argued ignores the one factor that supersedes all this he said she said rule debate.

Of course actually entertaining that notion of contact does scuttle one's rule book position. So never mind. Have fun.

This is just something we will have to agree to disagree. There was contact, but I don't think Dez ever demonstrated he had any ability to stay upright whether there was contact or not. We've been through this on this and another thread over and over, so there is no need to argue the point with me, just as I'm sure there is no need for me to argue the point with you either.

 

[blindzebra]

I just wonder when you guys are going to go back to the film and watch the play? Then acknowledge Shield's tripped Dez at the very same time Dez reached out with his left foot, causing the going to the ground, which triggered the requirement to control the ball all through the process?

I see a lot of rule arguing, but all the things being argued ignores the one factor that supersedes all this he said she said rule debate.

Of course actually entertaining that notion of contact does scuttle one's rule book position. So never mind. Have fun.

The case book plays say different.

 

[BlindFaith]

Here is what you said:

So let me get this straight. You think that the first two parts of the catch process are conditions of becoming a "receiver". Some term mentioned no where in the rule book.

And then they become a runner by completing the final step.

So when a player goes to the ground, to you, the catch process is completed after the first two acts?

Even though the rule clearly states that in order to complete a catch you have to complete all three acts.

Is this what you mean?

I did not saying anything about becoming a receiver, an offensive player in the catch process is a receiver.
I clearly said that parts a) and b) are performed as a receiver and that c) makes you a runner. All three complete the act. And FYI, why it does not say receiver, which for the Dez discussion that is what it means, is because the catch rules apply to both the offense and the defense, and that is why Item 1 says player. 8.1.3 still is about the catch process and the transition between being a receiver/defensive player and a runner.

Completing all three parts make you a runner. That's what the rule says. Do you agree?

 

[Gator88]

I just wonder when you guys are going to go back to the film and watch the play? Then acknowledge Shield's tripped Dez at the very same time Dez reached out with his left foot, causing the going to the ground, which triggered the requirement to control the ball all through the process?

I see a lot of rule arguing, but all the things being argued ignores the one factor that supersedes all this he said she said rule debate.

Of course actually entertaining that notion of contact does scuttle one's rule book position. So never mind. Have fun.

Going to the ground was secondary to if they completed the catch process before hitting the ground. It was not the superseding factor until they changed it the offseason after the Dez play occured.

 

[rkell87]

No problem, although if you were talking about the Dez play I am curious about your comment about having the ball ripped away by a defender. That didn't happen in the Dez play - at least not the one this thread is based on.

It absolutely did, Dez catches it with two hands, the defender then gets his hand on the ball, the defender rips Dez's right hand away from the ball with the ball still in Dez's left hand Dez re-establishes his right hand on the ball.

 

[BlindFaith]

What is a player in the process of a catch? It is either an offensive player (receiver) or a defensive player attempting to catch a pass. What are they when they complete the process? A runner.

Yep. But what you're missing is that if they become a runner while going to the ground they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground.

That is plain as day in the rule.

 

[blindzebra]

Completing all three parts make you a runner. That's what the rule says. Do you agree?

Yes and it is why the case plays say a lunge was not part of the process of the catch, because it was the act of a runner. Again, what I have been saying for over two years.

 

[OmerV]

It absolutely did, Dez catches it with two hands, the defender then gets his hand on the ball, the defender rips Dez's right hand away from the ball with the ball still in Dez's left hand Dez re-establishes his right hand on the ball.

The defender swiped at and brushed the the ball and caused a slight bobble from Dez while Dez was in the air, but Dez got control and still had his arm around the ball when he hit the ground. Accordingly, the defender neither ripped the ball away, nor did whatever contact he had with the ball affect the play. The incomplete call was from the ball popping away when Dez hit the ground, not from the defender causing a momentary bobble.

 

[blindzebra]

Yep. But what you're missing is that if they become a runner while going to the ground they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground.

That is plain as day in the rule.

If a) b) and c) make you a runner they can be completed anytime, because you are no longer a player/receiver in the process, you are a runner down by contact. The case plays and the Blandino video illustrate that exactly.

 

[BlindFaith]

I just wonder when you guys are going to go back to the film and watch the play? Then acknowledge Shield's tripped Dez at the very same time Dez reached out with his left foot, causing the going to the ground, which triggered the requirement to control the ball all through the process?

I see a lot of rule arguing, but all the things being argued ignores the one factor that supersedes all this he said she said rule debate.

Of course actually entertaining that notion of contact does scuttle one's rule book position. So never mind. Have fun.

With or without contact. It does not matter.

The only argument related to this that you can try to make is that you think Dez became a runner before he STARTED going to the ground. That means after getting both feet down and then whatever next act you pick, let's say the next step, he can't be going to the ground.

If you really think he wasn't going to the ground when he took that next step then we just have to disagree. And that is a judgment call. But the first part is the rule.

 

[BlindFaith]

Going to the ground was secondary to if they completed the catch process before hitting the ground. It was not the superseding factor until they changed it the offseason after the Dez play occured.

Its not before hitting the ground. It's before starting to fall to the ground. Huge difference. If they complete the catch process while going to the ground they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground. It's clear as day in the rule.

 

[Gator88]

Its not before hitting the ground. It's before starting to fall to the ground. Huge difference. If they complete the catch process while going to the ground they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground. It's clear as day in the rule.

No, it is before hitting the ground. It's pretty clearly if they haven't completed the catch process by the time that they hit the ground, they have to maintain possession.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Anti-catch crowd still getting owned.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yes and it is why the case plays say a lunge was not part of the process of the catch, because it was the act of a runner. Again, what I have been saying for over two years.

So if they are going to the ground at any point during that process they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground. Right?

 

[BlindFaith]

If a) b) and c) make you a runner they can be completed anytime, because you are no longer a player/receiver in the process, you are a runner down by contact. The case plays and the Blandino video illustrate that exactly.

Yes, they can be completed at any time.

But if they are completed while falling they have to maintain possession through contacting the ground. That's exactly what the rule says.

 

[BlindFaith]

No, it is before hitting the ground. It's pretty clearly if they haven't completed the catch process by the time that they hit the ground, they have to maintain possession.

In the act of catching a pass. That's the rule.

Not, must be completed before hitting the ground.

And this is not just semantics. This is a huge misunderstanding for those who think he caught it.