Could Garrett have been a good coach without Jerry?

[ConceptCoop]

I don't think Jason Garrett is a leader of men, to be cliché. But could he have developed into one, without Jerry being Jerry? Nobody can take Garrett seriously with the owner being so open about pulling the strings. Everyone involved knows that Jerry makes the high level decisions, including the players who can't fully respect Garrett as the leader because of it. Garrett had his authority undermined from day 1.

While I want the guy gone, I can't help but feel for him just a bit. He jumped at the first big opportunity that came his way, as must of us do, but the baggage was way too much. I'm not saying he would have been great or even good, but I think there was a chance he could have been something more than he is today. Not everybody who goes on to be a good leader were that on day 1. Like anything else, it can take some time and on the job training.

As a side note; while I want Garrett gone, I don't think it'll make any difference until or unless Jerry lets his coach have the final say in coaching matters. Or, at the very least, shuts the hell up about it. We're just going to get another guy that Jerry can puppeteer. That, or a strong willed guy like Parcells who will move on.

Thoughts?

 

[Seven]

You answered your own question.

 

[ConceptCoop]

You answered your own question.

I'm only one opinion. Was looking for others.

 

[erod]

Garrett is ABSOLUTELY a leader of men. In fact, it's his greatest quality. The players love him, and it's widely known that he can be a real hard *** behind closed doors. Players play for Jason. That's always been the case.

To the point, he'd be a much better coach if not for Jerry. That goes for Campo, Gailey, and Wade, too. Unless you come with an NFL track record like Parcells, you're cooked before you get started here. That's why I want Garrett here, because it would be far more circus-like with anyone else, and Jerry will never hire another name coach.

Ever since that first Super Bowl, Jerry has insisted on being the face of the franchise. That won't change.

 

[dallasdave]

You answered your own question.

 

[superonyx]

I am not sure JG would still even be a professional level coach if not for Jerry.
Not many organizations patiently wait while you take a QB of Romo's level and go 8-8 every year.

JG is an OC who isn't very good at being an OC. He is too predictable and safe and relies on the QB to be the OC at the line of scrimmage.

But I will say he has been neutered by Jerry.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Garrett is ABSOLUTELY a leader of men. In fact, it's his greatest quality. The players love him, and it's widely known that he can be a real hard *** behind closed doors. Players play for Jason. That's always been the case.

Hmm. I appreciate this opinion. My own bias has suggested otherwise, but I'm open to giving it some more thought. While the players play hard, they have historically made a lot of mistakes that would point to coaching. To put it bluntly, a lot goes on here that wouldn't stand in NE or PITT. Perhaps that's Jerry's doing as well. That, and his clapping after bad plays rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Seven]

I'm only one opinion. Was looking for others.

......Gotcha.

But........jerry's in the equation, so.........moot at this point.

 

[ConceptCoop]

I am not sure JG would still even be a professional level coach if not for Jerry.
Not many organizations patiently wait while you take a QB of Romo's level and go 8-8 every year.

JG is an OC who isn't very good at being an OC. He is too predictable and safe and relies on the QB to be the OC at the line of scrimmage.

But I will say he has been neutered by Jerry.

This is true, too. But it's kind of a chicken or the egg situation. Would they be 8-8 every year without Jerry?

Also, I think I'd let Romo play coach at the line too. I know what you're saying, but I have a hard time blaming him for that. It's a luxury that I'm sure most coaches would take advantage of, with guys like Romo and Peyton.

 

[DallasDomination]

Garrett is ABSOLUTELY a leader of men. In fact, it's his greatest quality. The players love him, and it's widely known that he can be a real hard *** behind closed doors. Players play for Jason. That's always been the case.

To the point, he'd be a much better coach if not for Jerry. That goes for Campo, Gailey, and Wade, too. Unless you come with an NFL track record like Parcells, you're cooked before you get started here. That's why I want Garrett here, because it would be far more circus-like with anyone else, and Jerry will never hire another name coach.

Ever since that first Super Bowl, Jerry has insisted on being the face of the franchise. That won't change.

I hate his offense but I can't argue against him not being a leader of men. Everything indicates he is in fact a respected coach within the locker room.

 

[Idgit]

Garrett's a good coach now. The people who work with him all know it. It's the fans--who don't know most of what goes on anyway--who don't like him because the want a better won-loss record.

There are systemic problems in Dallas that get in the way of the team winning more games against good teams, but by and large, the issue is not the coaching or the staff.

 

[erod]

Hmm. I appreciate this opinion. My own bias has suggested otherwise, but I'm open to giving it some more thought. While the players play hard, they have historically made a lot of mistakes that would point to coaching. To put it bluntly, a lot goes on here that wouldn't stand in NE or PITT. Perhaps that's Jerry's doing as well. That, and his clapping after bad plays rubs me the wrong way.

Don't let the robot press conferences fool you. Garrett is a salty old football coach ******* in the locker room. Jerry cuts him at the knees, but he seems to fight through it pretty well because he has stature here.

Those mistakes you speak of during games? Buy the Red Zone channel. They happen all the time, everywhere. Coaches mismanage clocks in every city. We just focus on our team.

 

[erod]

I hate his offense but I can't argue against him not being a leader of men. Everything indicates he is in fact a respected coach within the locker room.

The problem with the offense is that Romo is really the playcaller. So when he's out, it's completely different because the other QBs that have played just don't see the game like Romo. But that's the case with other elite QBs, too.

Kubiak basically stood aside during Peyton's tenure. He didn't even run his offense. He let Peyton do it.

Now, Kubiak is back to calling plays from his offense again.

 

[erod]

Garrett's a good coach now. The people who work with him all know it. It's the fans--who don't know most of what goes on anyway--who don't like him because the want a better won-loss record.

There are systemic problems in Dallas that get in the way of the team winning more games against good teams, but by and large, the issue is not the coaching or the staff.

When I'm faced with the Garrett detractors, I always ask.....who do you want? Subtract Belichick. Who do you want?

Kubiak? He got run out of Houston.
Payton? He's merely the product of Brees. His defenses are awful.
Fisher? I used to like him a lot. I was wrong. He blows.
Rivera? Doing well with a team very well drafted, but meh.
Tomlin? Bus driver. Roethlisberger and LeBeau caused all that.
Carroll? Dude is shady and failed miserably his first two tries in the pros.
McCarthy? Riding Rodgers coattails.
Andy Reid? Please.
Chip Kelly? Clown.

The only guy I really wish was here is Mike Zimmer. He's a good coach, and his roots are here. Perhaps Todd Bowles, too. Maybe Bruce Arians. That's about it.

 

[ConceptCoop]

When I'm faced with the Garrett detractors, I always ask.....who do you want? Subtract Belichick. Who do you want?

Kubiak? He got run out of Houston.
Payton? He's merely the product of Brees. His defenses are awful.
Fisher? I used to like him a lot. I was wrong. He blows.
Rivera? Doing well with a team very well drafted, but meh.
Tomlin? Bus driver. Roethlisberger and LeBeau caused all that.
Carroll? Dude is shady and failed miserably his first two tries in the pros.
McCarthy? Riding Rodgers coattails.
Andy Reid? Please.
Chip Kelly? Clown.

The only guy I really wish was here is Mike Zimmer. He's a good coach, and his roots are here. Perhaps Todd Bowles, too. Maybe Bruce Arians. That's about it.

You're writing off successful coaches as a product of their players. It's no secret that you need good players to win football games in the NFL, but coaching has impact too.

Arians, Reid, Carroll, and Payton are all no brainers. I'd take Tomlin, Zimmer, Bowles, and McCarthy over him too, at least.

 

[Idgit]

When I'm faced with the Garrett detractors, I always ask.....who do you want? Subtract Belichick. Who do you want?

Kubiak? He got run out of Houston.
Payton? He's merely the product of Brees. His defenses are awful.
Fisher? I used to like him a lot. I was wrong. He blows.
Rivera? Doing well with a team very well drafted, but meh.
Tomlin? Bus driver. Roethlisberger and LeBeau caused all that.
Carroll? Dude is shady and failed miserably his first two tries in the pros.
McCarthy? Riding Rodgers coattails.
Andy Reid? Please.
Chip Kelly? Clown.

The only guy I really wish was here is Mike Zimmer. He's a good coach, and his roots are here. Perhaps Todd Bowles, too. Maybe Bruce Arians. That's about it.

It always comes down to player acquisition and development. Even a good coach like Payton goes 7-9, 7-9, 0-2 when he doesn't have the horses.

Belichick, Arians, and Zimmer are three guys I really like, too. Along with Jim Harbaugh. Those are probably my top coaches right now. Of that group, Zimmer's the only one I suspect could really work well with Jerry.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

I don't think Jason Garrett is a leader of men, to be cliché. But could he have developed into one, without Jerry being Jerry? Nobody can take Garrett seriously with the owner being so open about pulling the strings. Everyone involved knows that Jerry makes the high level decisions, including the players who can't fully respect Garrett as the leader because of it. Garrett had his authority undermined from day 1.

While I want the guy gone, I can't help but feel for him just a bit. He jumped at the first big opportunity that came his way, as must of us do, but the baggage was way too much. I'm not saying he would have been great or even good, but I think there was a chance he could have been something more than he is today. Not everybody who goes on to be a good leader were that on day 1. Like anything else, it can take some time and on the job training.

As a side note; while I want Garrett gone, I don't think it'll make any difference until or unless Jerry lets his coach have the final say in coaching matters. Or, at the very least, shuts the hell up about it. We're just going to get another guy that Jerry can puppeteer. That, or a strong willed guy like Parcells who will move on.

Thoughts?

The way Garrett is trying to win requires players that are physically superior to the man lined up in front of them. To win like that (when you are not trying to trick them)....the head coach needs to be a motivator, he needs to be intimidating, he needs to be confrontational, and a selectively strict disciplinarian. You need to be those things because you will have to manage a "Charles Haley type" in order to WIN that way. Garrett has failed miserably in handling the "Charles Haley type". So no....he cannot be successful because his philosophical approach to winning football games does NOT match his demeanor. He is risk adverse. He is not cool under pressure. He does not have the guts to get in a guys face in public. And I think the "Charles Haley types" eventually adversely impact the lockeroom because Garrett can't handle them. Other players realize this and it impacts winning. There have been too many talented football players that were not RKG that have been run off. And Jimmy Johnson would have harnessed those types and channeled their energy to win games.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

When I'm faced with the Garrett detractors, I always ask.....who do you want? Subtract Belichick. Who do you want?

Kubiak? He got run out of Houston.
Payton? He's merely the product of Brees. His defenses are awful.
Fisher? I used to like him a lot. I was wrong. He blows.
Rivera? Doing well with a team very well drafted, but meh.
Tomlin? Bus driver. Roethlisberger and LeBeau caused all that.
Carroll? Dude is shady and failed miserably his first two tries in the pros.
McCarthy? Riding Rodgers coattails.
Andy Reid? Please.
Chip Kelly? Clown.

The only guy I really wish was here is Mike Zimmer. He's a good coach, and his roots are here. Perhaps Todd Bowles, too. Maybe Bruce Arians. That's about it.

You are wrong about so many people you have named. Mike Tomlin is so many things Garrett is not. And with the talent that has been in Dallas during Garrets tenure...he would have gotten much better results. I mean 7 of the 9 the coaches you are MINIMIZING have won/coached in SUPER BOWLS!!!!!!!!!!! But Jerry Jones has brainwashed this fanbase so badly....that we don't value WINNING! Do you think ANY of the organizations with those Super Bowl coaches would even let Garrett touch what they've built? My gosh...what is wrong with you people. We have the NERVE to LAUGH at Chip Kelly. Who won double digit games in 2 of his first 3 seasons. Garrett has only done that ONCE. ONCE. And we are calling Kelly a clown?

 

[ConceptCoop]

You are wrong about so many people you have named. Mike Tomlin is so many things Garrett is not. And with the talent that has been in Dallas during Garrets tenure...he would have gotten much better results. I mean 7 of the 9 the coaches you are MINIMIZING have won/coached in SUPER BOWLS!!!!!!!!!!! But Jerry Jones has brainwashed this fanbase so badly....that we don't value WINNING! Do you think ANY of the organizations with those Super Bowl coaches would even let Garrett touch what they've built? My gosh...what is wrong with you people. We have the NERVE to LAUGH at Chip Kelly. Who won double digit games in 2 of his first 3 seasons. Garrett has only done that ONCE. ONCE. And we are calling Kelly a clown?

I'd love Kelly as an OC. I'd even take him as a coach, too. His biggest blunders came in his GM role.

 

[Idgit]

The way Garrett is trying to win requires players that are physically superior to the man lined up in front of them. To win like that (when you are not trying to trick them)....the head coach needs to be a motivator, he needs to be intimidating, he needs to be confrontational, and a selectively strict disciplinarian. You need to be those things because you will have to manage a "Charles Haley type" in order to WIN that way. Garrett has failed miserably in handling the "Charles Haley type". So no....he cannot be successful because his philosophical approach to winning football games does NOT match his demeanor. He is risk adverse. He is not cool under pressure. He does not have the guts to get in a guys face in public. And I think the "Charles Haley types" eventually adversely impact the lockeroom because Garrett can't handle them. Other players realize this and it impacts winning. There have been too many talented football players that were not RKG that have been run off. And Jimmy Johnson would have harnessed those types and channeled their energy to win games.

To win like that, you really only need better players.