Could Kneeland see more time than Sam Williams?

[Coogiguy03]

Good post.

Zimmer can handle guys like Williams. What Zim won't deal with is guys who don't do exactly what they are coached to do. Sam is a freak. His size/athleticism. In Quinns D, guys were improvising if not freelancing. This led to mistakes by everybody. I think it hurt our run D more than our personnel hurt it (cutting all of our linebackers didn't help, though). Sam is young, and I don't think he was put in a position to succeed. He has the strength and size and ability to set the edge. If he doesn't have to think but can just do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, he absolutely fits Zim's D, both with his hand in the dirt and even standing up as a SLB or Joker. We should really hope for that because you just don't find a lot of guys like him.
Sam has an additional path to the 53 as a gunner. I find it hard to believe that Zim won't use him, at least as a pass rusher, if he is on the 53. Getting a real defensive coordinator with a viable grown-man D gives Williams a chance. He doesn't have to be smart, just coachable.

Kneeland... Dude. His tape is fire. His technique, strength, smarts, attitude, and body type make him NFL ready with a high floor and higher ceiling. If you watch game tape and listen to what the coaches say about his responsibilities in the D, you should be excited about this guy. This is a blue collar, Mike Zimmer defensive end. I know people keep comparing him to D-Law, but when I watch I see more Jared Allen or Greg Ellis, but he's probably more NFL ready coming out than either of them. And, his ceiling may be higher than either, certianly from a physical standpoint. He doesn't have the natural bend that D-Law had coming out of college. That's something that can't be taught. But, he is a better rookie than D-Law was. This narrative about his pass rush is just not true. He isn't Parsons, obviously. But, he will bring pressure and free up guys like Parsons to finish while giving the QB nowhere to go... He won't give the QB a running lane chasing the sack. Most important, he'll keep bodies off of our linebackers (career year for Parsons?!).

Zim's D is about stopping the run and then making the QB make decisions on passing plays. He does this pre-snap with his alignments and shifts. Post-snap with coverages that force the QB to hold on to the ball a tick longer while forced to throw into tight spaces.

Kneeland was made for this REAL NFL defense (which Quinns D was not). He is a 10+ year starter. Not a flashy pick, but a smart one. The kind of guy this D needs to help our stars really shine.
Williams was the flashy pick. But, his floor is much lower and his ceiling much higher.

It will, hopefully, be more fun than frustrating watching the development and competition along the front seven.

I can't wait to see how he progresses, to me D-law had that 1 extremely great year, and after that SACK wise he hasn't been the same. On run stopping he's top notch

 

[1time4urMind]

I can't wait to see how he progresses, to me D-law had that 1 extremely great year, and after that SACK wise he hasn't been the same. On run stopping he's top notch

Yeah, man. D-Law became a more complete player, but he didn't seem to "complete the sack" like he used to.
I know personnel and scheme was a part of that. Middle of our D was pretty poor most of those years. He was often the only guy really setting the edge, but you could tell he didn't trust the interior guys to make a play either. It seems to be a problem all around for this team for many years. Even, Micah should be finishing plays with sacks more often. Hard to evaluate when QB's can step up in the pocket or get to the outside with their feet due to lack of discipline and players not minding their gaps.

 

[XXLMike]

lol @ extreme lol lol

Yep, he extremely sucks or sucks extremely

 

[MikeT22]

Punts matter.
Hey, a punt is a turnover in my book.
Zim makes things harder on a QB to process, puts guys in a position to succeed more consistently, and doesn't allow teams to run the ball for first downs on first and second down. And LBers will run free more.
No more of Philly (buffalo, Arizona, etc, etc,) running right at us for first down after first down even on 4th down. No more offense on the sideline for the 4th quarter.

We will see. Wasn’t too spectacular his first go around. More bend but not break, except when it broke.
As for punts, I guess it’s like a turnover if you consider it like a 50+ yard INT on 4th down.

 

[ColoradoCowboy]

No, you are right, they are not film.
D-Law and Kneeland were drafted out of college for very different traits.

But, Kneeland's tape says NFL ready starter for 10+ years. I could care less if he gets 1 sack or 10 because his tape suggests he will still bring pressure even if he doesn't get the sack... and, he will be assignment sound in doing so.

So did Anthony Spencer....

 

[speedkilz88]

I understand he tested well but everything I read suggested the production wasn’t there in College…. If the results were not there in college then hard to see him taking over the NFL by storm. I am not a draft guy, just my interpretation of reading up on him.

You need to actually watch the plays. He dominated that level just wasn't a big sack guy. Also dominated OTs in drills at the senior bowl. Ascending player.

 

[DUO_CORE]

Depends how many times per day he checks his watch.

 

[charron]

Kneeland will mostly backup DLAW. Williams will mostly rush from the weak side.

 

[KingCorcoran]

Good post.

Zimmer can handle guys like Williams. What Zim won't deal with is guys who don't do exactly what they are coached to do. Sam is a freak. His size/athleticism. In Quinns D, guys were improvising if not freelancing. This led to mistakes by everybody. I think it hurt our run D more than our personnel hurt it (cutting all of our linebackers didn't help, though). Sam is young, and I don't think he was put in a position to succeed. He has the strength and size and ability to set the edge. If he doesn't have to think but can just do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, he absolutely fits Zim's D, both with his hand in the dirt and even standing up as a SLB or Joker. We should really hope for that because you just don't find a lot of guys like him.
Sam has an additional path to the 53 as a gunner. I find it hard to believe that Zim won't use him, at least as a pass rusher, if he is on the 53. Getting a real defensive coordinator with a viable grown-man D gives Williams a chance. He doesn't have to be smart, just coachable.

Kneeland... Dude. His tape is fire. His technique, strength, smarts, attitude, and body type make him NFL ready with a high floor and higher ceiling. If you watch game tape and listen to what the coaches say about his responsibilities in the D, you should be excited about this guy. This is a blue collar, Mike Zimmer defensive end. I know people keep comparing him to D-Law, but when I watch I see more Jared Allen or Greg Ellis, but he's probably more NFL ready coming out than either of them. And, his ceiling may be higher than either, certianly from a physical standpoint. He doesn't have the natural bend that D-Law had coming out of college. That's something that can't be taught. But, he is a better rookie than D-Law was. This narrative about his pass rush is just not true. He isn't Parsons, obviously. But, he will bring pressure and free up guys like Parsons to finish while giving the QB nowhere to go... He won't give the QB a running lane chasing the sack. Most important, he'll keep bodies off of our linebackers (career year for Parsons?!).

Zim's D is about stopping the run and then making the QB make decisions on passing plays. He does this pre-snap with his alignments and shifts. Post-snap with coverages that force the QB to hold on to the ball a tick longer while forced to throw into tight spaces.

Kneeland was made for this REAL NFL defense (which Quinns D was not). He is a 10+ year starter. Not a flashy pick, but a smart one. The kind of guy this D needs to help our stars really shine.
Williams was the flashy pick. But, his floor is much lower and his ceiling much higher.

It will, hopefully, be more fun than frustrating watching the development and competition along the front seven.

“a high floor and higher ceiling”… coming out of the MAC? Look up the teams in the MAC.

 

[Typhus]

I'll give you guys some reason for hope. I didn't like the Kneeland pick. But I am pretty solid in all of my predictions. Those I like, bomb. Those I'm not big on, turn up roses. I'm practically 100%. The only one I hit on was Lamb. So expect Kneeland to be first team all pro.

I didn't like the Overshown pick either. Look for him to dazzle. Hated the Diggs pick, loved the Mazi pick, it goes on and on.

Now I understand you...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

thta's the point. he is not a very smart player. as a 2nd rounder, expections are that by year three, he is a bigger contributor and a good starter. he is playing like a 5th round pick.

For 29% of the snaps, what he's done is not underwhelming, imho.

But thanks for your opinion....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

For 29% of the snaps, what he's done is not underwhelming, imho.

But thanks for your opinion....

but you just pointed out the exact issue. he is a 2nd rounder. should have been a starter by now. playing 29% is underwhelming. he can't even get on the field. I wonder why?

 

[CalebTC84]

There is room on the team for both. Now and years to come. Kneeland was drafted for run defense primarily and hoping to develop his pass rushing skills. Sam needs to focus on Sam

 

[1time4urMind]

“a high floor and higher ceiling”… coming out of the MAC? Look up the teams in the MAC.

I'd rather watch tape. Evaluate traits. And, you gotta do that with what is available rather than crying about conference.
You know, the same tape that got guys like Ben Roethlesberger and Randy Moss drafted. Or, Jason Taylor or Greg Jennings.
James Harrison and Antonio Gates come to mind as guys whose tape was criticized over the conference they played in and went undrafted partly because of that criticism.

You're comment isn't rational. You gonna throw away a chunk of gold because it is surrounded by rocks?

Get outta here.

 

[kskboys]

Yeah, man. D-Law became a more complete player, but he didn't seem to "complete the sack" like he used to.
I know personnel and scheme was a part of that. Middle of our D was pretty poor most of those years. He was often the only guy really setting the edge, but you could tell he didn't trust the interior guys to make a play either. It seems to be a problem all around for this team for many years. Even, Micah should be finishing plays with sacks more often. Hard to evaluate when QB's can step up in the pocket or get to the outside with their feet due to lack of discipline and players not minding their gaps.

You mean they can step up in the pocket because our DT's don't collapse the pocket.

 

[kskboys]

I'd rather watch tape. Evaluate traits. And, you gotta do that with what is available rather than crying about conference.
You know, the same tape that got guys like Ben Roethlesberger and Randy Moss drafted. Or, Jason Taylor or Greg Jennings.
James Harrison and Antonio Gates come to mind as guys whose tape was criticized over the conference they played in and went undrafted partly because of that criticism.

You're comment isn't rational. You gonna throw away a chunk of gold because it is surrounded by rocks?

Get outta here.

Yeah, it's so weird to see someone claim that said player will fail because another player failed from that school.

Players succeed primarily due to physical traits combined w/ instincts and motor. And a bit of the mental. (Ahem, Sam).

 

[1time4urMind]

So did Anthony Spencer....

Not sure how you meant that. So, this is my take.

Anthony Spencer was a great prospect coming out of school. Best fit was a DE, though. And, he moved to OLB opposite Demarcus Ware as I recall. Not the best fit, but he still earned his way and played well. Ware was the guy rushing most downs. Plenty of tape of Ware beating Spence to the QB, but Spence didn't leave a lane for the QB to get away.
Spence developed at that positon, though. More opportunities he got, better he played. Knee injury took him out.

 

[1time4urMind]

You mean they can step up in the pocket because our DT's don't collapse the pocket.

Yessir. That was exactly what I was implying.

 

[kskboys]

Not sure how you meant that. So, this is my take.

Anthony Spencer was a great prospect coming out of school. Best fit was a DE, though. And, he moved to OLB opposite Demarcus Ware as I recall. Not the best fit, but he still earned his way and played well. Ware was the guy rushing most downs. Plenty of tape of Ware beating Spence to the QB, but Spence didn't leave a lane for the QB to get away.
Spence developed at that positon, though. More opportunities he got, better he played. Knee injury took him out.

Spence wasn't agile enough laterally to ever be a high level DE. Same w/ guys like George Selvie, Damontre Moore, Jeremy Mincey.

A DE must have a way to get around the blockers. That comes down to lateral agility.

 

[1time4urMind]

We will see. Wasn’t too spectacular his first go around. More bend but not break, except when it broke.
As for punts, I guess it’s like a turnover if you consider it like a 50+ yard INT on 4th down.

I don't disagree Zimmer's time in Dallas as DC was weird. Those Campo years, ... Then, Zimmer had to run Parcells defense to keep his job. So, it wasn't even his D.

If I remember correctly, the average punt was 40-something yards last year not including yards gained in the return. So, under 40 yards. But, point taken.