Could Kneeland see more time than Sam Williams?

Flamma

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I'll give you guys some reason for hope. I didn't like the Kneeland pick. But I am pretty solid in all of my predictions. Those I like, bomb. Those I'm not big on, turn up roses. I'm practically 100%. The only one I hit on was Lamb. So expect Kneeland to be first team all pro.

I didn't like the Overshown pick either. Look for him to dazzle. Hated the Diggs pick, loved the Mazi pick, it goes on and on.
 
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MyFairLady

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Sam Williams is human garbage. Looking forward to the annual Jerry "boys will be boys" press conference to explain away more stupid behavior from boy wonder.
 

Einstein

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I think so... he'll be the one giving DLaw a break, where I see Williams playing in MPs spot.
 

MikeT22

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Well, we do always take some small schooler or injured player in the 2nd. I don't see it, but this one might be the same as all the other 2nd rounders(except Diggs!!)
At least he’s not injured or have off the field issues. He was also a consensus 2nd rounder.

On the other hand you question a DE who isn’t much of a pass rusher. The comp of Greg Ellis sounds right. A decent DE who is good vs the run, but not a sack threat.

With Zim I think what we will gain in run defense we will lose in rushing/pressuring the QB and forcing turnovers.
 

quickccc

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I think it all depends on what Sam Williams we get each game, the mental mistakes have to go! He's tough, and has good speed, we just want him to clean up the unnecessary mistakes he makes getting flags. If Kneeland displays that motor and toughness, I think we will see a lot of him, what are your thoughts?? He's probably the D-law replacement (maybe)
Discipline, effort and consistency.

If Sam I am gives Zimmer that, then he will have the first nod, imo.
Run defense, smart heady game, not the silly flags such as roughing the passer, hands to the face, etc. and grading out overall.

- Sam has an explosive first step get off and he;s a natural pass rusher. Slowed by an early turf toe injury, Williams
at one point, put together a streak of at least one sack in three str8 game in reg season.

Dunno about rookie Kneeland. But outside looking in, it does
concern me that a guy with his physical measurements, and playing at a small college division, had just 4 sacks in his final year.

But there's a possibility that with NFL coaching, strength program and game experience, that he could develop far more at NFL
level than what he was at small Western Michigan.

- Even Vikes premium edge rusher Danille Hunter had a porous college sack numbers at LSU
 

LACowboysFan1

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sam williams has underwhelmed. so why we drafted kneeland, and also because this is last year of Lawrence, so probably Kneeland takes over.
I don't see Williams as being "underwhelmed", in playing an average of only about 29% of defensive snaps, managed to rack up 4.5 sacks and a safety.

His problem is between the ears, the crucial, dumb mistakes put him the doghouse a lot.

Fix those and I'd say he'll be pretty good....
 

_sturt_

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I make no judgments about Kneeland until camp, but while it's true Sam Williams needs to impress this season with the anticipated greater opportunity, imo, he's already impressed. And similar, while it's true he needs to make fewer mental mistakes, he's not actually made that many but rather just had the misfortune that they've occurred at key moments. So, sure, the lights are coming on, and SW better claim the spotlight. But Broaddus' suggestion today he's in the same boat as Tolbert suggests the two have performed about the same in their first two seasons, and that's just not the case. SW has been making plays when given the chance, while Tolbert only began asserting himself to some degree in 2023.
 

kskboys

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Discipline, effort and consistency.

If Sam I am gives Zimmer that, then he will have the first nod, imo.
Run defense, smart heady game, not the silly flags such as roughing the passer, hands to the face, etc. and grading out overall.

- Sam has an explosive first step get off and he;s a natural pass rusher. Slowed by an early turf toe injury, Williams
at one point, put together a streak of at least one sack in three str8 game in reg season.

Dunno about rookie Kneeland. But outside looking in, it does
concern me that a guy with his physical measurements, and playing at a small college division, had just 4 sacks in his final year.

But there's a possibility that with NFL coaching, strength program and game experience, that he could develop far more at NFL
level than what he was at small Western Michigan.

- Even Vikes premium edge rusher Danille Hunter had a porous college sack numbers at LSU
D Hunter is w/ the Texans.
 

Tussinman

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So, is Williams the backup for Parsons and Kneeland for Lawrence?

Since Kneeland supposedly has better run defense skills, I would expect to see him more than Williams
Long term he's D-Law replacement but I think short-term he's technically the 2024 replacement for Dorance Armstrong whose gone.

I think the plan last year (this was assuming Sam played more) was have Dorance over the LT on run downs and Sam Williams over the LT on pass downs. D-Law over RT on run downs and then pushed inside on downs when Parson lines up over the RT.

I think that was technically the plan but it was confusing because last year Sam didn't play as many snaps as most thought he would. On pass downs he wasn't out there D-Law or Parsons lined up over the RT.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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I don't see Williams as being "underwhelmed", in playing an average of only about 29% of defensive snaps, managed to rack up 4.5 sacks and a safety.

His problem is between the ears, the crucial, dumb mistakes put him the doghouse a lot.

Fix those and I'd say he'll be pretty good....
thta's the point. he is not a very smart player. as a 2nd rounder, expections are that by year three, he is a bigger contributor and a good starter. he is playing like a 5th round pick.
 

Mr_437

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I see them playing together on the 2nd team rotation. Idk if Kneeland will be moved to the RDE at any point because the presence of better pass rushers.

Base DEs (LDEs) DLaw n Chauncey are in contract years, so it'll be interesting how Kneeland n Fehoko (at LDE) develop at the position, so maybe they can take over in '25.
 

XXLMike

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I think it all depends on what Sam Williams we get each game, the mental mistakes have to go! He's tough, and has good speed, we just want him to clean up the unnecessary mistakes he makes getting flags. If Kneeland displays that motor and toughness, I think we will see a lot of him, what are your thoughts?? He's probably the D-law replacement (maybe)
I think this is exactly why we drafted him. Sam Williams is headed for extreme back up duties..
 

cnuball21

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I think part of the reason we let those DEs walk is the FO is probably ready to give Williams a lot more snaps.

I think he’ll get a ton this year and Kneeland will be more of a rotational player against the run.
 

1time4urMind

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I think it all depends on what Sam Williams we get each game, the mental mistakes have to go! He's tough, and has good speed, we just want him to clean up the unnecessary mistakes he makes getting flags. If Kneeland displays that motor and toughness, I think we will see a lot of him, what are your thoughts?? He's probably the D-law replacement (maybe)

Good post.

Zimmer can handle guys like Williams. What Zim won't deal with is guys who don't do exactly what they are coached to do. Sam is a freak. His size/athleticism. In Quinns D, guys were improvising if not freelancing. This led to mistakes by everybody. I think it hurt our run D more than our personnel hurt it (cutting all of our linebackers didn't help, though). Sam is young, and I don't think he was put in a position to succeed. He has the strength and size and ability to set the edge. If he doesn't have to think but can just do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, he absolutely fits Zim's D, both with his hand in the dirt and even standing up as a SLB or Joker. We should really hope for that because you just don't find a lot of guys like him.
Sam has an additional path to the 53 as a gunner. I find it hard to believe that Zim won't use him, at least as a pass rusher, if he is on the 53. Getting a real defensive coordinator with a viable grown-man D gives Williams a chance. He doesn't have to be smart, just coachable.

Kneeland... Dude. His tape is fire. His technique, strength, smarts, attitude, and body type make him NFL ready with a high floor and higher ceiling. If you watch game tape and listen to what the coaches say about his responsibilities in the D, you should be excited about this guy. This is a blue collar, Mike Zimmer defensive end. I know people keep comparing him to D-Law, but when I watch I see more Jared Allen or Greg Ellis, but he's probably more NFL ready coming out than either of them. And, his ceiling may be higher than either, certianly from a physical standpoint. He doesn't have the natural bend that D-Law had coming out of college. That's something that can't be taught. But, he is a better rookie than D-Law was. This narrative about his pass rush is just not true. He isn't Parsons, obviously. But, he will bring pressure and free up guys like Parsons to finish while giving the QB nowhere to go... He won't give the QB a running lane chasing the sack. Most important, he'll keep bodies off of our linebackers (career year for Parsons?!).

Zim's D is about stopping the run and then making the QB make decisions on passing plays. He does this pre-snap with his alignments and shifts. Post-snap with coverages that force the QB to hold on to the ball a tick longer while forced to throw into tight spaces.

Kneeland was made for this REAL NFL defense (which Quinns D was not). He is a 10+ year starter. Not a flashy pick, but a smart one. The kind of guy this D needs to help our stars really shine.
Williams was the flashy pick. But, his floor is much lower and his ceiling much higher.

It will, hopefully, be more fun than frustrating watching the development and competition along the front seven.
 

1time4urMind

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I think he his bull rush will be most effective for him early.

Even with that frame and strength, Kneeland is a speed to power pass rusher right now. And, he's good at it. But, he also uses his hands and feet to counter off of that. He usually looks like he has a plan.
Tape don't lie. :)
 

1time4urMind

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He’s not getting 3-4 sacks

Would you settle for two sacks? And, 10 tackles for loss, setting the edge consistently (on both run and pass), and being a key reason Parsons has 18+ sacks, and 110+ tackles?
All for a late second rounder?

:)
 

1time4urMind

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Not even in the same zip code as Sam as a pass rusher.
Would get snaps as a backup to Lawrence if Lawrence were to get injured.

Skeptical of his ability to beat NFL tackles one on one on pass rush downs.

Athleticism and RAS scores are not football film.

He excels in the former and not so much in the latter playing in an extremely weak college conference.

No, you are right, they are not film.
D-Law and Kneeland were drafted out of college for very different traits.

But, Kneeland's tape says NFL ready starter for 10+ years. I could care less if he gets 1 sack or 10 because his tape suggests he will still bring pressure even if he doesn't get the sack... and, he will be assignment sound in doing so.
 

1time4urMind

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At least he’s not injured or have off the field issues. He was also a consensus 2nd rounder.

On the other hand you question a DE who isn’t much of a pass rusher. The comp of Greg Ellis sounds right. A decent DE who is good vs the run, but not a sack threat.

With Zim I think what we will gain in run defense we will lose in rushing/pressuring the QB and forcing turnovers.

Punts matter.
Hey, a punt is a turnover in my book.
Zim makes things harder on a QB to process, puts guys in a position to succeed more consistently, and doesn't allow teams to run the ball for first downs on first and second down. And LBers will run free more.
No more of Philly (buffalo, Arizona, etc, etc,) running right at us for first down after first down even on 4th down. No more offense on the sideline for the 4th quarter.
 
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