Could the Big12 and PAC10 Combine?

[ABQCOWBOY]

The next move could be Utah to the Pac 10...giving them 12 teams.

If the Pac 10 is the only conference offering, then I think the Utes jump at the chance to join. If, however, the Big 12 is also interested in Utah, then I think the Utes might rethink the Pac 10. The problem for the Pac 10 is that they really don't have a lot of marquee teams to offer up plus, they don't have a favorable time slot for anybody outside the Pacific Time Zone.

USC is really the only big time team they have to offer with Football. Bringing in all the Texas and OU teams would have helped them in this regard a great deal. I'm not at all sure that the Pac 10's position, as far as TV revenue is nearly as strong now that they don't have these other teams associated.

 

[DFWJC]

You guys are forgetting the best thing to come out of all of this.

:laugh2: Nice.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If the rumors are true that the penalties for Nebraska and Colorado leaving aren't going to be split evenly, it really is a classless move by the Big 3 at a time when the conference could desperately use a little harmony and goodwill after the last month. Really UT? You already have more money than God and got everything you wanted, and you can't get your gluttonous snout out of the feeding trough long enough to make a nice symbolic gesture to split the money evenly as already stipulated and mutually agreed upon by all schools in the original contract? What a classless, needless and unnecessary slap in the face to all the other schools at the very worst time possible. There is no way a conference this un-even, dysfunctional and predatory lasts 4 years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If the rumors are true that the penalties for Nebraska and Colorado leaving aren't going to be split evenly, it really is a classless move by the Big 3 at a time when the conference could desperately use a little harmony and goodwill after the last month. Really UT? You already have more money than God and got everything you wanted, and you can't get your gluttonous snout out of the feeding trough long enough to make a nice symbolic gesture to split the money evenly as already stipulated and mutually agreed upon by all schools in the original contract? What a classless, needless and unnecessary slap in the face to all the other schools at the very worst time possible. There is no way a conference this un-even, dysfunctional and predatory lasts 4 years.

Rosh, where are you getting the splits info from?

 

[Doomsday101]

December 17, 2009,
Football revenue

(Source: Revenues for college football programs reported by institutions to the U.S. Department of Education as required by the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act/2008 data)

Top 25

1. Texas 87.6 million

2. Ohio State 68.2

3. Florida 66.2

4. Georgia 65.2

5. Alabama 64.6

6. LSU 61.9

7. Penn State 61.8

8. Auburn 58.6

9. South Carolina 57.1

10. Notre Dame 56.9

11. Nebraska 55.2

12. Michigan 52.2

13. Michigan State 43.5

14. Tennessee 42.8

15. Oklahoma 42.6

16. Wisconsin 40.0

17. Iowa 38.9

18. Arkansas 38.6

19. Texas A&M 38.4

20. Clemson 35.2

21. Southern Cal 35.2

22. Washington 34.2

23. Oregon State 30.9

24. Arizona State 29.9

25. Virginia Tech 27.7








Attendance


Conferences: ranked by average football attendance in 2008 (per game)

1. SEC: 76,844 (6,378,085 fans)

2. Big Ten: 70,125

3. Big 12: 62,956

4. Pac-10: 57,350

5. ACC: 52,737

Source: NCAA



Top 25: average attendance in 2008 (per game)

1. Michigan 108,571

2. Penn State 108,254

3. Ohio State 104,976

4. Tennessee 101,448

5. Texas 98,046

6. Georgia 92,746

7. LSU 92,383

8. Alabama 92,138

9. Florida 90,544

10. Auburn 86,915

11. Southern California 86,793

12. Oklahoma 85,075

13. Nebraska 85,071

14. Texas A&M 82,193

15. Wisconsin 81,088

16. Notre Dame 80,795

17. South Carolina 80,529

18. Clemson 78,001

19. Florida State 77,968

20. Michigan State 74,858

21. UCLA 72,795

22. Iowa 70,169

23. Kentucky 69,434

24. Arkansas 68,740

25. Virginia Tech 66,233

(Source: NCAA)








SEC financial ledger

Total revenue: $161.56 million

Total expenses: $153.97 million

Net assets: $65.2 million

Distribution to member schools: $135.01 million (12 schools)

Commissioner compensation: Mike Slive -- $720,561

Other: Florida's share was $11,199,254; distribution is for TV revenues, fee and ticket sales for regular and postseason football, basketball and baseball games

(Source: IRS 990 filings for 2007 -- through June 30, 2008)




Conference financial comparisons


Total revenue

Big Ten: $217.72 million

ACC: $162.76 million

SEC: $161.56 million

Big 12: $129.87 million

Pac-10: $96.083 million

Big East: $93.35 million

Conference USA: $45.12 million

WAC: $19.24 million

MAC: $10.1 million

Mountain West: $9.8 million



Net assets

SEC: $65.2 million

ACC: $34.08 million

Big Ten: $11.42 million

Big 12: $10.94 million

Conference USA: $8.73 million

Big East: $8.18 million

Mountain West: $4.3 million

Pac-10: $1.251 million

WAC: $936,954

MAC: ($553,198)



COMMISSIONER'S COMPENSATION

Big Ten: $1,232,835 (Jim Delaney)

ACC: $888,116 (John Swofford)

SEC: $720,561 (Mike Slive)

Big 12: $712,990 (Dan Beebe)

Conference USA: $571,557 (Britton Banowsky)

Pac-10 Conference: $550,000 (Tom Hansen)

Mountain West: $548,245 (Craig Thompson)

Big East: $526,739 (Michael Tranghese)

WAC: $427,924 (Karl Benson)

MAC: $253,000 (Rick Chryst)

(Source: IRS 990 filings for 2007 … through June 30, 2008)





SEC REVENUE DISTRIBUTION (MONEY DISTRIBUTED TO ITS 12 MEMBER SCHOOLS)

2010: TBA (speculation it could approach $200 million, fueled by new TV deals)

2009: $132.5 million

2008: $127.6 million

2007: $122 million

2006: $116.1 million

2005: $110.7 million

2004: $108.8 million

2003: $101.9 million

2002: $95.7 million

2001: $78.1 million

2000: $73.2 million

1999: $68.5 million

1998: $61.2 million

1997: $58.9 million

1996: $45.5 million

1995: $40.3 million

1994: $34.36 million

1993: $34.34 million

1992: $27.7 million

1991: $20.6 million

1990: $16.3 million

1989: $13.85 million

1988: $14.34 million

1987: $13.56 million

1986: $13.1 million

1985: $9.34 million

1984: $18.4 million

1983: $9.53 million

1982: $7.24 million

1981: $5.57 million

1980: $4.1 million

(Source: Southeastern Conference)



SEC REVENUE SOURCES (2008-09)

$52 million: football television

$25.4 million: bowls

$14.3 million: SEC football championship

$13.6 million: basketball television

$4.1 million: SEC men's basketball tournament

$23.1 million: NCAA championships

(Source: Southeastern Conference)




NCAA major violations (SEC profile)


• 49 major violations

• 22 major violations cited since 1990 (All are football or men's basketball except two: Arkansas track and Vanderbilt women's basketball. At least one SEC school has been on probation every year since 1990.)

• 53 years in total probation handed out since 1990

• Nine major violations since 2000 -- totaling 30 years of probation

• Six different schools -- half the conference -- cited for major violations during a hot stretch of 2002 to '04

• Longest-ever conference streak of at least one member on probation since the University of Georgia football program was placed on a one-year probation Jan. 4, 1985 (because of improper financial aid and transportation, extra benefits and improper recruiting contact). The streak is 24 years and is guaranteed to extend another three years. The Big 12 went 17 years (from Jan. 21, 1986, to Dec. 21, 2002, dating back to former Big Eight/Southwest Conference); Big Ten has current streak of 13 years dating back to Sept. 16, 1996 (Indiana remains on probation).

• Two SEC schools are currently serving probation  Arkansas (three years beginning Oct. 25, 2007) and Alabama (three years commencing June 11, 2009)

• Every conference member has committed major violations, but Vanderbilt is the lone school not to have served probation (women's hoops was charged but not placed on probation).

(Source: NCAA, dating to 1953)





Leading conference offenders (major violations since 1990)


SEC: 22

Big 12: 19

ACC: 12

Big Ten: 10

Big East: 8

Pac-10: 7

Conference USA: 5

MAC: 3

Mountain West: 3

WAC: 2

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=4750560

 

[DFWJC]

If the rumors are true that the penalties for Nebraska and Colorado leaving aren't going to be split evenly, it really is a classless move by the Big 3 at a time when the conference could desperately use a little harmony and goodwill after the last month. Really UT? You already have more money than God and got everything you wanted, and you can't get your gluttonous snout out of the feeding trough long enough to make a nice symbolic gesture to split the money evenly as already stipulated and mutually agreed upon by all schools in the original contract? What a classless, needless and unnecessary slap in the face to all the other schools at the very worst time possible. There is no way a conference this un-even, dysfunctional and predatory lasts 4 years.

Aren't we getting ahead ourselves at this point?

Let's see how this all goes down.

I'm not really a UT guy (went to UNC) but from what I can see the lower end of the Big 12 benefited massively from what has just gone down.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Aren't we getting ahead ourselves at this point?

Let's see how this all goes down.

I'm not really a UT guy (went to UNC) but from what I can see the lower end of the Big 12 benefited massively from what has just gone down.

The Baylors and Iowa States did improve massively, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State really didn't. They were going to get $20 million from a potential Pac 16 and it was going to be evenly distributed on a more level playing field.

I just don't know of any athletic conference that goes so far out of its way to build such lines of resentment and inequality among it's members, especially when it's going to have to sell itself to potential TV Networks that this dysfunctional/unstable family can hold itself together long enough to be worth a potential $200+ million dollar contract. I understand raw greed ... I may not respect it or admire it, but I can understand it. Not splitting the penalty money up evenly, after being agreed upon previously, goes beyond greed and moves into vindictive, schoolyard bully behavour.

And in the end, I'm betting the way it will TV contract breakdown is that UT, A&M and OU are guaranteed their $20+ million no matter what, while the other schools divy up the remainder 6 ways.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Baylors and Iowa States did improve massively, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State really didn't. They were going to get $20 million from a potential Pac 16 and it was going to be evenly distributed on a more level playing field.

I just don't know of any athletic conference that goes so far out of its way to build such lines of resentment and inequality among it's members, especially when it's going to have to sell itself to potential TV Networks that this dysfunctional/unstable family can hold itself together long enough to be worth a potential $200+ million dollar contract. I understand raw greed ... I may not respect it or admire it, but I can understand it. Not splitting the penalty money up evenly, after being agreed upon previously, goes beyond greed and moves into vindictive, schoolyard bully behavour.

And in the end, I'm betting the way it will TV contract breakdown is that UT, A&M and OU are guaranteed their $20+ million no matter what, while the other schools divy up the remainder 6 ways.

So then, do you think that if revenues had been split evenly, Nebraska would not have opted for the Big 10?

 

[UnoDallas]

You guys are forgetting the best thing to come out of all of this.

our very own longhorn

http://i326.***BLOCKED***/albums/k422/5dakota/RoyEWilliams.jpg



http://i241.***BLOCKED***/albums/ff245/gtholmes/l_b56f6c03595d98930058d0053a4c15bd.png

Malcolm Kelly Horns Down

 

[Doomsday101]

doin't forget

http://i326.***BLOCKED***/albums/k422/5dakota/RoyEWilliams.jpg

this has got to stop

If he is putting up TD he can do what ever hand sign he wants as long as we don't get 15 yards.

 

[jterrell]

If the rumors are true that the penalties for Nebraska and Colorado leaving aren't going to be split evenly, it really is a classless move by the Big 3 at a time when the conference could desperately use a little harmony and goodwill after the last month. Really UT? You already have more money than God and got everything you wanted, and you can't get your gluttonous snout out of the feeding trough long enough to make a nice symbolic gesture to split the money evenly as already stipulated and mutually agreed upon by all schools in the original contract? What a classless, needless and unnecessary slap in the face to all the other schools at the very worst time possible. There is no way a conference this un-even, dysfunctional and predatory lasts 4 years.

Disagree totally and I am a Techsan.

Bottom line is three schools were offered sweeter deals elsewhere: UT, OU, TAMU. Any of those 3 could have taken that better offer.

Tech, OkSt could have been brought along to the Pac16 but ONLY if Texas went. Baylor, the Kansas school and Iowa State were just praying for any BCS shot.

I have no issues with this round of negotiation and revenue favoring teams who turned down the sweeter deals.

EVERY school will get more money under this deal by a huge margin. The 3 schools who could have gotten that money outside the Big12 will simply get a bit more.

Nebraska cried because they weren't treated equal but fair is not the same as equal. If Nebraska has been winning games they would have gotten more money.

 

[silverbear]

Look, I don't "have it out for Texas". I was putting out an opinion that can be found on numerous SEC blogs.

Then it would appear that numerous SEC blogs are clueless about what really went on...

That said, I have never perceived you as being one of the legion known as Horns Haters... you've just been misinfomed by those clueless blogs...

I'm an SEC guy. I don't like the elitist attitude that was coming out of the Austin.

I'd suggest that their elitist attitude is well-earned, and not just because of their football team... the entire gamut of their athletic programs are consistently among the nation's best...

This year's football team played in the national championship game, after winning the championship in 2005... they have 9 straight seasons of 10 plus wins (best in the nation), and 12 straight seasons of 9 plus wins (again, best in the nation)...

The men's and women's basketball teams had disappointing seasons by Horns standards, though the men's team was at number 1 at one point in January before collapsing, and the women's team still won over 20 games...

The men's baseball team just choked in the Super Regional, so they won't be going to the College World Series this year, but prior to losing 2 out of 3 to TCU, they were ranked 3rd in the nation... they played in the championship game last year, and won the championship in 2002 and 2005... they also lost the championship game in 2004, which means that since 2002, they've played in the national title game 4 times... they hold the record for the most CWS games won (82)...

The women's softball team is a consistent national power, and this year won the Big 12 championship while winding up ranked 12th in the nation...

The men's swimming and diving team won the NCAA championship this year...

The men's tennis team went 27-3 this year, ending up 4th in the nation...

The women's tennis team ended the season ranked 16th...

The women's volleyball team ended up 2nd in the nation, losing the national title match to Penn State...

The men's golf team is generally a national power, but had a poor season this year...

When your sports teams, up and down the line, are pretty consistent winners, you start to feel kind of superior... but like they say in west Texas, it ain't bragging if you can do it... bottom line, it would be hard to find any college athletic department that enjoys the same kind of success that Texas does year in and year out...

Which is, of course, why the Pac 10 wanted them so badly in the first place...

 

[InmanRoshi]

Rosh, where are you getting the splits info from?

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/docs...agree-to-cede-exit-money-to-texas-oklahoma-am

Basically Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State have "agreed" to give their share of the penalty money over to the Big 3, the way the scrawny kid at the school yard "agrees" to give his milk money over to the kid who has been held back 3 grades.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Disagree totally and I am a Techsan.

Bottom line is three schools were offered sweeter deals elsewhere: UT, OU, TAMU. Any of those 3 could have taken that better offer.

No, they really weren't. It's not believed A&M had a firm offer from the SEC, and OU's offer to the Pac 16 was contingent with Texas coming over and delivering the Dallas/San Antonio/Houston markets with them.

Basically Beebe bribed A&M and OU with a fat payday to play nice, quit making waves and put on a solid front so they could go to the television networks as a big happy family and see what they could potentially get if the Big XII holds. They couldn't get any firm estimates unless everyone was in.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/docs...agree-to-cede-exit-money-to-texas-oklahoma-am

Basically Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State have "agreed" to give their share of the penalty money over to the Big 3, the way the scrawny kid at the school yard "agrees" to give his milk money over to the kid who has been held back 3 grades.

Yep.

Again, Texas is riding this wave of power. And again, I remember when I was a kid and they were also-rans. It's kind of a shame that this isn't happening during one of their down periods.

But it's not a coincidence it's happening now.

 

[silverbear]

You guys are forgetting the best thing to come out of all of this.

Actually, the tower was lit up this spring-- to celebrate the men's swimming and diving team winning the national championship...

But yeah, the thought of a "Bevo network" excites me...

 

[Hoofbite]

Average Annual income from TV revenues

SEC - $205 Mil
Big Ten - $242 Mil
Big 12 - $78 Mil
ACC - $67 Mil
Pac 10 - $58 Mil
Big East - $33 Mil


There's plenty of secondary pluses for the Longhorns -- and the rest of the conference:

• They don't walk into a brutal conference schedule where they may have to play Oklahoma, USC, Oregon and any other yearly upstarts to get into the BCS. Now, with Nebraska gone, the road to the BCS (and perhaps the title game) hinges on the Horns' annual date with Oklahoma at the Cotton Bowl.

the easy road - one tough game a year

If you are a BCS darling you don't need much more than that. 1 tough game and the rest against High School teams will just about do it.

 

[DFWJC]

The Baylors and Iowa States did improve massively, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State really didn't. They were going to get $20 million from a potential Pac 16 and it was going to be evenly distributed on a more level playing field.

I just don't know of any athletic conference that goes so far out of its way to build such lines of resentment and inequality among it's members, especially when it's going to have to sell itself to potential TV Networks that this dysfunctional/unstable family can hold itself together long enough to be worth a potential $200+ million dollar contract. I understand raw greed ... I may not respect it or admire it, but I can understand it. Not splitting the penalty money up evenly, after being agreed upon previously, goes beyond greed and moves into vindictive, schoolyard bully behavour.

And in the end, I'm betting the way it will TV contract breakdown is that UT, A&M and OU are guaranteed their $20+ million no matter what, while the other schools divy up the remainder 6 ways.

The Pac 10 had a terrible TV deal, so how does Tech and Ok St get 20 million when the average Pac 10 take is 5-6 million?

On your other thoughts, I tend to agree. I think TV revenue should be split eveningly even if some schools don't pull their weight....that just helps the conference big picture, imo.

However, I have no problem with a school maximzing its athletic revenues as long as it does not reduce what others receive. Once the conference has a TV deal in place, I have no issue (as ong as the network allows it) with individual schools clipping out addtional TV revenues.
Conferences tend to be measured by the superpower teams. If you don't have 1-3 teams vying for a national title each year, you are not considered very relevent. OU and UT's success actually helps the Big 12 overall.

 

[silverbear]

No, they really weren't. It's not believed A&M had a firm offer from the SEC, and OU's offer to the Pac 16 was contingent with Texas coming over and delivering the Dallas/San Antonio/Houston markets with them.

Basically Beebe bribed A&M and OU with a fat payday to play nice, quit making waves and put on a solid front so they could go to the television networks as a big happy family and see what they could potentially get if the Big XII holds. They couldn't get any firm estimates unless everyone was in.

Damn the Horns for holding the Big 12 together... LOL...

Shame on them for using the leverage they have by being the most successful, and thus the most desirable, program in the conference... shame on them for doing what's best for their school...

 

[InmanRoshi]

However, I have no problem with a school maximzing its athletic revenues as long as it does not reduce what others receive. Once the conference has a TV deal in place, I have no issue (as ong as the network allows it) with individual schools clipping out addtional TV revenues.

Hey, UT played their advantages for all it was worth. No denyin that.

I'm just amazed that a "major" athletic conference actually agrees to a formal, structured, caste system and that the big schools are able to openly bully small market teams out of their earned money that they're contractually obligated to the way a bully shakes down smaller kids on the playground for their school money. It's pretty much unheard of, and seems in pretty poor taste given the amount of acrimony and disharmony this conference has gone through in the last month. Then again, maybe the Big XII doesn't qualify for the title of a "major" athletic conference anymore.