Could the Big12 and PAC10 Combine?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think there's some confusion over total revenue versus television revenue.

I think your probably right Stan. Either way, unless the Big 12 can get a more lucrative TV deal in place, I don't see schools who are offered staying if they have a chance to go to the Big 10, PAC10 or SEC. If Texas jumps, forget about it. I think OU would go and after that, it doesn't matter.

 

[rkell87]

ah i see, the tv deals are better in the other conferences.

dont know if this means anything as i dont know if other other schools offer it but out here Texas has its own on demand channel

bevOD, that might help them some

 

[UnoDallas]

UT won't leave the Big 12

they are a shoe in to win it every year

why leave a sure thing

its a I am better than you complex

UT makes me sick

plus they'd get beat bad in SEC - Big 10 - Pac 10

 

[rkell87]

UT won't leave the Big 12

they are a shoe in to win it every year

why leave a sure thing

its a I am better than you complex

UT makes me sick

plus they'd get beat bad in SEC - Big 10 - Pac 10

SEC is tough and good teams beat the crap out of each other every year in that conference, but Texas would be #1 or 2 every year in the the big ten(maybe #3 on an off year) the only teams that have a chance in the big 10 is OSU, Penn st, and a third team that could be Michigan or Iowa, just depends from year to year.

USC is rebuilding and Texas beat the best USC team ever, Texas would rule the pac 10, Oregon is the only team that stands a chance but not really.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

UT won't leave the Big 12

they are a shoe in to win it every year

why leave a sure thing

its a I am better than you complex

UT makes me sick

plus they'd get beat bad in SEC - Big 10 - Pac 10

I don't see that either. Whatever conference Texas plays in, they are going to have a major recruiting advantage. There is no better talent in the country then in Texas. That's just the simple truth. They may not win every year in the SEC or in the PAC10 but they would be in contention every single year. It's the same in the Big 12. They don't win every year but they certainly are in contention every year. The major difference is money.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747

Exclusive: Pac-10 set to invite six from Big 12
Chip Brown
Orangebloods.com
Columnist

The Big 12 meetings are reaching their climax Thursday and Friday in Kansas City with the presidents and chancellors from the league coming together to discuss pressing issues, including sites for championships. (Look for the Big 12 title game in football to stay at Cowboys Stadium for the next three years.)

But when it comes to possible realignment, the Big 12 meetings may be premature.

Why?

Because it appears the Pac-10, which has its meetings in San Francisco starting this weekend, is prepared to make a bold move and invite Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado to join its league, according to multiple sources close to the situation.


Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds has maintained that the Longhorns will do whatever it takes to remain the Jones' of college football.

Left out would be Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska and Missouri.

Messages left with Pac-10 officials by Orangebloods.com on Thursday were not immediately returned.

The six teams from the Big 12 would be in an eight-team division with Arizona and Arizona State. The other eight-team division would consist of USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State.

The thought is the Big 16 (or whatever they decide for the name) would start its own television network that could command premium subscriber dollars from cable providers on par with the Big Ten Network and pay out upwards of $20 million to each of the 16 schools in TV revenue.

Such a merger between the six Big 12 schools and the Pac-10 would build a conference with seven of the country's top 20 TV markets (Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, Houston, Phoenix, Seattle and Sacramento). And such a league would likely command attention from every cable system in the country and command a premium rate from every cable system west of the Mississippi.

Those projected TV revenues would double the current payouts of roughly $9 million to Big 12 and Pac-10 members. If the Big 16 reached its projections, the league would also surpass the SEC's projected payout of $17 million per school reached in a 15-year TV deal with ABC/ESPN and CBS signed in 2008.

According to the Omaha World-Herald, the TV revenues paid out to the Big 12 in 2007 (the last year revenue was made public) were as follows:

1. Texas: $10.2 million
2. Oklahoma: $9.8 million
3. Kansas: $9.24 million
4. Texas A&M: $9.22 million
5. Nebraska: $9.1 million
6. Missouri: $8.4 million
7. Texas Tech: $8.23 million
8. Kansas State: $8.21 million
9. Oklahoma State: $8.1 million
10. Colorado: $8.0 million
11. Iowa State: $7.4 million
12. Baylor: $7.1 million

AN OFFER THAT CAN'T BE REFUSED?

An invitation from the Pac-10 will be hard for the six Big 12 schools being targeted not to consider. Why? Because Fox Cable Networks (a division of News Corporation), which serves as the chief operating partner of the successful Big Ten Network, appears ready to make the Big 16 Network happen.

Fox is the chief television partner of the Pac-10 currently, and its subsidiary Fox Sports Net currently holds the rights to the Big 12 cable package, which comes up for bid in the spring of 2011. The Pac-10 also has television deals with Fox up for re-bid at the same time.

The Big Ten has shown the conference network model works. According to published reports, the TV revenue paid out to Big Ten schools jumped from $14 million for the fiscal year 2006-07 to $22 million for the fiscal year 2007-08.

A&M TO THE SEC?

There does appear to be some resistance to an invitation from the Pac-10 from at least one of the six schools being targeted - Texas A&M. According to a source close to the situation, A&M officials have had serious conversations with the Southeastern Conference about the Aggies joining that league.

In Thursday's editions of the Houston Chronicle, A&M athletic director Bill Byrne was asked if the SEC is an option for the Aggies should the Big 12 break up, and he said, "It might be. You know what? It might be."

Byrne, the athletic director at Oregon from 1984-92 before going to Nebraska, has been openly critical of having student-athletes travel west, only to return home at odd hours.

Byrne has used the example of when the Aggies had their men's and women's basketball teams in Spokane and Seattle for the NCAA Tournament in March and couldn't get back to College Station until 6:30 a.m. with students having to attend 8 a.m. classes.

It's no coincidence Byrne's example included cities in the Pac-10's dominant time zone.

There is also reason to believe Oklahoma could be enamored with joining the SEC. But that does not appear to be an option Texas officials would be willing to consider. There is a sense among UT officials the academics in the SEC are not on par with Texas.
If A&M and Oklahoma were to splinter off and join the SEC, the Pac-10 would obviously have to revise its invite list.

Any move the SEC made in terms of expansion would likely cause the 15-year, $3 billion in TV contracts the SEC landed with ABC/ESPN ($2.2 billion) and CBS ($825 million) to be re-opened for negotiation.

The question would be how much more money the SEC could command in TV revenue without starting its own network?

A&M is starved for cash because its athletic department fell $16 million into debt and received a loan from the school's general fund to pay it off, causing a rift between the university and athletics. That rift, in part, led to A&M school president Elsa Murano to resign under pressure because she was pushing for the money to be paid back and was met with resistance by A&M system chancellor Mike McKinney, whose sons played football at A&M, and possibly even Texas Gov. Rick Perry, an Aggie who is still very involved in the school's politics.

Surprisingly, the Legislature doesn't appear to be an obstacle for the state's two biggest schools to split off into separate conferences, although that is not an ideal situation for either school. If A&M opted to head to the SEC and Texas opted to go elsewhere, there is a very good chance Texas would no longer play the Aggies in any sports.

NEW OPTIONS

So after this weekend, there will be a new option for half the schools in the Big 12 to find a new home.

There also appears to be a chance Nebraska will not get invited to the Big Ten, which means the only school the Big 12 stands to lose to the Big Ten is Missouri. The Big Ten and its efforts to move south, thus far, have been rebuffed by Texas, which doesn't like the logistics of serving as the southern boundary of the Big Ten.

So the Big Ten continues to focus on Notre Dame and is seriously considering whether to invite Missouri as well as three schools from the Big East (Rutgers, UConn and either Syracuse or Pittsburgh) . Such a move would likely collapse the Big East, where Notre Dame plays its sports other than football, and might cause the Irish to finally acquiesce to joining the Big Ten.

If that happened, there would be a strong likelihood that four super conferences of roughly 16 teams could emerge: the Big Ten, the SEC, a collaboration of the Big 12 and Pac-10 as well as a collaboration of the Big East and ACC.

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe warned against that when the Big 12 meetings started this week in Kansas City.

"I think it's very serious," Beebe said. "And I think it's something that we better be very careful about. If we come to a day where there are four 16-member conferences, then it's going to be a sad day, and it's going to be very difficult to not have more legal issues and interventions. The pressures will be immense for certain programs to be successful, (and) there will be less chances to win conference championships and national championships."

CAN THE BIG 12 SURVIVE?

Believe it or not, it's still Texas' goal to hold the Big 12 together, and simply create a non-conference football scheduling alliance with the Pac-10 that would help generate a big-money, cable TV deal for both leagues.

Such a move would continue to allow Texas to pursue its own network and create a unique, potentially lucrative revenue stream UT wouldn't have to share. If Texas ended up as one of the six schools going off to join forces with the Pac-10, it would likely have to forgo its own network.

Larry Scott, the Pac-10 commissioner, told Orangebloods.com recently his schools are "very interested" in exploring a conference network and that it would have to be an "all rights in situation."

Can Texas convince the rest of the league the Big 12 is the way to go? Would all the wandering eyes like Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Nebraska and Missouri commit to staying in the Big 12 immediately if Texas committed to staying in the Big 12 in light of the Pac-10 offer?

Missouri probably would not. The Tigers already have one foot in the Big Ten. But Nebraska has no assurance it will be invited to the Big Ten and could be left completely out of the power conference structure if it's not careful. Texas A&M doesn't have the resources to start its own network and doesn't appear eager to be in a league that allows Texas to generate added revenue. The same might be true for OU.

So the plot thickens. The Pac-10, which is hamstrung by geography and would love to have its sports aired into the Central time zone, wants a merger. And it appears ready to upstage the Big Ten in this game of musical conferences. No one would have its own network in the Big 16, which could compel A&M and OU to accept an invitation.

The Pac-10 doesn't want to waste time by going out on dates with the Big 12 with a non-conference football scheduling alliance. It wants to take half of the Big 12 and get married. Now, we'll see, who, if anyone, meets them at the altar.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Just what we need.......bigger BSC conferences

 

[rkell87]

mizzou is an idiot for thinking about leaving, they have like 40 players from texas on their roster and they would lose their foothold for recruiting in texas. imo Arizona has to be drooling over this cause they would become the new mizzou by getting the kids mizzou would normally get.

i still dont think texas will leave but it seems like i bigger possibility than i thought.

also baylor and colorado are up in arms about this cause one of them could be left in the rain. if this thing does go down i would rather both get left out and have them pick up two out of boise st, utah, and TCU

 

[Cythim]

From everything I've been reading, Texas wants to keep the Big 12 and is waiting for Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri to make a move. If they don't come to a decision soon the southern teams will likely start shopping around for a new conference. I'd prefer the Big 12 stay as is but if it has to break up I want to see a merge with the Pac 10 (I live in Oregon and would love extended coverage of my Aggies). My biggest concern would be joining the SEC or splitting up the four Texas schools.

 

[speedkilz88]

Espn is reporting that Nebraska jumped ship for the Big Ten.

Texas has leaked that they and the others are going to the Pac 10

 

[xout]

So it looks like Nebraska is going to the Big 10 for sure. So what is to become of the remaining 5 schools once the Pac-16 is formed?

The MWC stands a chance to benefit from this greatly as if they attach Boise State, and possibly adopt some of the rejected Big 12 schools they can potentially become a BCS worthy conference, giving schools like Boise, TCU, Utah, and BYU the chance to prove themselves in the bowl games.

 

[peplaw06]

So it looks like Nebraska is going to the Big 10 for sure. So what is to become of the remaining 5 schools once the Pac-16 is formed?

The MWC stands a chance to benefit from this greatly as if they attach Boise State, and possibly adopt some of the rejected Big 12 schools they can potentially become a BCS worthy conference, giving schools like Boise, TCU, Utah, and BYU the chance to prove themselves in the bowl games.

They were discussing on Mike & Mike this am that Kansas, K State, Iowa State and Baylor would be going to the Mountain West. And they were talking about KU basketball in that conference... :laugh2:

I hate this. College sports are so money-driven, it's kind of sad. These schools are making money hand over fists and the kids are exploited. Which is why you see what happened with Reggie Bush and USC.

 

[DFWJC]

They were discussing on Mike & Mike this am that Kansas, K State, Iowa State and Baylor would be going to the Mountain West. And they were talking about KU basketball in that conference... :laugh2:

I hate this. College sports are so money-driven, it's kind of sad. These schools are making money hand over fists and the kids are exploited. Which is why you see what happened with Reggie Bush and USC.

I guess if you're looking for a silver lining; these mega football payouts fund all of the other sports (with the rare exception of men's basketball).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Colorado just confirmed, they are headed to the Pac 10

http://www.pac-10.org/genrel/061010aaa.html

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They were discussing on Mike & Mike this am that Kansas, K State, Iowa State and Baylor would be going to the Mountain West. And they were talking about KU basketball in that conference... :laugh2:

I hate this. College sports are so money-driven, it's kind of sad. These schools are making money hand over fists and the kids are exploited. Which is why you see what happened with Reggie Bush and USC.

For the Mountain West, that would be great. They have some pretty good Basketball schools in the Mountain West. BYU, Utah, UNLV, UNM, all very good BBall schools. You add Kansas to that mix and you have the makings of a real power conference in the NCAA tourney.

 

[xout]

So it is possible A&M may throw everyone for a loop in this and defect to the SEC instead of following Texas. I personally would love to see the Aggies in the SEC. Rumor has it OU is considering it as well...

Possible scenario?
Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State leave to form Pac 14.

Nebraska leaves to Big 10.

Texas A&M and OU leave to SEC.

MWC expands to 12 or 14 to include Boise State, Kansas State, Kansas, Baylor, and/or Missouri.

I would be happy with this. The rivalries won't die, as A&M and OU can always still play UT just not as conference games. Pac-14 gets it's Texas and Denver markets, SEC gets better, and MWC gets much better not only in football but basketball.



Although... the easiest thing for the Big 12 would be to let Nebraska defect like Colorado has, and just patch the holes with teams like TCU and Boise State.

 

[silverbear]

Texas isn't going anywhere, right now they have the lions share of everything in their big 12 contract. there is no way they will give up that kind of cush deal. there is little to no benefit for them to do anything but stay put.

I think you're quite wrong about that, I feel confident that in the very near future, they will accept a Pac-10 invitation to join that conference... the exodus of Colorado, followed by the very likely departure of Missouri, and probably Nebraska, will spell the end of the Big XII...

Further, the Pac-10 is SO eager to expand east, and the Horns are SUCH a big draw, that the conference will likely offer them a sweetheart deal to join up... yes, even better than the deal they get from the Big XII now...

 

[Doomsday101]

I hate to see the Big12 torn apart only good thing I see is with an expanded pac-10 they will be faced with a championship game like many of the other conferences out there.

 

[peplaw06]

For the Mountain West, that would be great. They have some pretty good Basketball schools in the Mountain West. BYU, Utah, UNLV, UNM, all very good BBall schools. You add Kansas to that mix and you have the makings of a real power conference in the NCAA tourney.

I wouldn't call any of those teams "very good bball schools." But then again, we don't see eye to eye on much in college bball.

UNLV used to be a powerhouse under Tark, but they've been pretty bad of late. New Mexico had a decent run this year, but are not in it year in, year out. Utah had a run not too long ago, but aren't consistent. BYU is probably the class of that conference as it exists now, and Baylor and KState were IMO head and shoulders better than them this past season.

But none of them are even close to a Kansas. Kansas is one of the top 4 programs in the country every year. I have a feeling KU, Baylor and KState are going to make these other programs look like step-children.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wouldn't call any of those teams "very good bball schools." But then again, we don't see eye to eye on much in college bball.

UNLV used to be a powerhouse under Tark, but they've been pretty bad of late. New Mexico had a decent run this year, but are not in it year in, year out. Utah had a run not too long ago, but aren't consistent. BYU is probably the class of that conference as it exists now, and Baylor and KState were IMO head and shoulders better than them this past season.

But none of them are even close to a Kansas. Kansas is one of the top 4 programs in the country every year. I have a feeling KU, Baylor and KState are going to make these other programs look like step-children.

I agree, none of those schools are in the class of Kansas but no conference they could go to is in there class, as far as basketball is concerned so to me, that's a moot point. I think you underestimate BBall in the Mountain West. They are not ACC but they are pretty good. You bring in a school like Kansas and they improve immediately. I think it could be a good move for both Kansas and the MWC.